Posts made by chewy

@azrael78 I'd love to do this, but I can't seem to find an official installation of Opera 69. Is there such a place to download?

@leocg Yeah, I am very familiar with the closed source mindset. The fear of allowing people to see the good and the bad could make the "shareholders" nervous.

Thank you once again for taking the time to write about this. Unfortunately, we will have to rely of the benevolence of the devs and Opera to be a little more forthcoming and open about these changes. Perhaps they will even provide clear justifications to the people that actually use their software, why and how these changes come to be.

Until Opera reverts the disastrous changes to the "Recently Closed" button, there is a far better solution. It closely resembles what Opera took away from the toolbar. It's in the Chrome Store and it's an extension called "Tab Restore" by Banana Sonna. It is almost identical to the old Opera function; it seems to work exactly as the old "Recently Closed".

I think that what the devs just don't get is that taking the user from a quick pulldown (that doesn't shadow out your current tab and window) to this new implementation, is what part of the problem is. They pull the user away from the tab they're on, shadow grey out the whole browser to show you the list is just too different to use like the old way.

I hope this helps!

@leocg Also, as I mentioned, there is no context to the changelog. There is no way to look up the ticket or history of any item in the changelog. In some cases, there is no way to understand some of these one-liners at all. So although I can decipher some of the issues/feature changes, a lot it remains clouded.
Having the ability to look at a particular items ticket or history would be greatly beneficial. Bugzilla would be a great example of what I'm talking about.

@leocg I see. So if I wanted to see a changelog for an older build, I'd have to dig through the blog, find the corresponding post, open the post, find the link for the changelog and take it from there? Talk about convoluted!
Although the severe inadequateness of posting changelogs is out of your control, I do want to thank you for this information.

@leocg Thank you for this information!

However, I do have a followup question: How did you find this information? I've been to the root blogs.opera.com/desktop and can not find a link to all change logs.

Also, this change log lists identifiers for different changes, yet no way to lookup each identifier to explain in detail, what these issues/changes are. Is there a way to do this? It would be really helpful for the public (at least the people that have to support this browser for a company) to look up any given issue to see the history and understand how it was resolved. Case In Point: (Example) the changelog lists "DNA-87863 Parameter placing issue in all languages" - there is nothing more explaining this. What is this? What was effected? How was it fixes?

Seeing the ticket details would help in understanding these things.

@sgunhouse Just for some clarification, I did what you suggest and checked out their blog. Yes, you are correct, there is a section discussing the "Recently Closed" functionality, touting the "usefulness" of the addition of the new feature. However, this blog looks to only highlight some of the major changes; it does not correspond or even attempt to look like a proper change log. Additionally, the shear magnitude of negative comments regarding this new feature makes me wonder if the devs truly do respond to the community. The comments are overwhelmingly negative and plead with the devs to just rollback this function to what it was. In any event, thank you once again for your help and information.

@chewy Case In Point: I just closed and opened opera to discover there was yet again another "micro" update, from 70.0.3728.106 to 70.0.3728.119. No documentation, no "readme.txt" and no mention in the "blog" what exactly changed. This is the kind of thing that frustrates and bewilders people.

@sgunhouse Thank for this information. I had no idea that Opera had a blog, only these forums. Although, if the blog is the place where proper change log documentation is kept, IMHO, that's really ridiculous. Thank you for this information though, it's appreciated!

@SymphonicPoet I'm glad you were able to find that Vivaldi works for you. As a long time "PC guy", I absolutely love Vivaldi for it's ability to customize. You can absolutely go nuts changing the look and feel of the browser to meet your needs (I'd say its the most customizable browser out there, hands down, especially compared to Opera). It's also far more compliant with internet standards than Opera (there are a few sites that come up "wonky" in Opera that firefox or chromium based browser work fine on). My only reason I stick with Opera is it's boot up speed (Opera definitely has an edge here, as well as it's responsiveness). As an owner of an older Quad Core AMD system with 4GB of ram, Opera performs the best in this regard. However, all other browser has the "Recently Closed" functionality, right where Opera used to have their button (it's a trash can in Vivaldi vs. the Opera magnifying glass).
In any event, if you have a more modern PC, the transition to Vivaldi is rather trivial and you shouldn't notice the lag in boot up. Good Luck To You!

@leocg I wholeheartedly disagree. The flag that allows for the "Recently Closed" functionality no longer works, nor is present. Without noting it in a change log or new installation notes, I would strongly argue that it is a bug.

That is the problem with Opera Devs (and really, also an industry trend) right now. There is no public official change control or documentation when these major/minor/micro releases occur. They just update and there is no notification of what changes were made. As this is a core browser function that many, many people rely on (just look at this thread for example) and also understanding that the flag used to work and now does not, easily rises to the level of a bug (without documentation or official statement, there is no other conclusion).

Another rather frustrating issue is that Opera (again, the industry as a whole) lumps together bug fix updates with new/different functionality. If they were separate and if they were documented each properly, a lot of end user issues could be addressed before they hit these forums. Perhaps developing in a vacuum, not publicly discussing up-and-coming changes and not documenting changes in a public change log is not the way to keep people informed?
One other point: a truly open and transparent bug system would allow for the client and Opera to track the progress of submitted bugs. In the manner by which they bug track, it does not allow for the creator to track the issue (as far as I can tell, but I could be wrong). This is just as frustrating and problematic as this forum; no official commentary from the devs.

Perhaps someone from Opera will see these things as issues and hopefully becomes the catalyst for change. I remain hopefully, but as a realist, I have serious doubts.

@operast Thank you for your kinds words! I'm just trying to help out. I do feel a bug report is best to call their attention to this issue - historically, the devs rarely if at all, respond to the forum.

Additionally, (in terms of a toggle) I would think it's rather easy to either make a toggle function (Search for Open Tabs / Search Recently Closed Tabs) or allow for another button that represents the "Menu->History->Recently Closed" list and the ability to disable/turn off the "Search in Tabs" button.

In this way, the devs can have their new functionality and the end user can opt to enable in the tab bar a Recently Closed button. The functionality is clearly in the browser, so I would think no "major" source code rework would be needed.

Heck, I'd even opt for an extension if needed (again, since the recently closed stuff is still in the browser).

@treego Again, allow me to clarify my point on extensions with no disrespect:

Your perceptions of negligible system impact may or may not be accurate and I won't debate you on that. I don't know what impact these extra's have, given that there are literally an incalculable combination of different PC configurations out there. That was NOT my point; my point is that they are EXTRA's and not needed to make the browser a browser.

Why not make Opera's weather and twitter functions an Opera branded extension? If you trust Opera, then this should NOT be a problem, right? Or better yet, an option during installation/update, and if you choose NO, then have the ability to install the extension from Opera's own selection of extensions; wouldn't THAT make everyone happy?

BTW: I wouldn't recommend installing some "random extension" from the Chrome store.

In terms of "privacy and such", this was my attempt to foster an understanding of my viewpoint and I stand by my points.

PII is important to consider whether to adopt/keep a browser, app or whatever you choose to use.

PII is a big concern (granted, for me but maybe others) and forcing these types of updates without the proper peer review and the lack of disclosure of data collection practices is EXACTLY why I left Chrome.

I posit to you this: What if Opera one day decided to incorporate a bitcoin data mining "function", without letting you know after you got the latest update? Would this concern you? The impact on you system could be negligible, so what's the harm, right? Would you like to know what information is being transmitted? How about knowing how to fully disable and uninstall such functionality? How much trust would you then have with Opera? To me, there is NO DIFFERENCE in ideal or outcome. Granted, this example is a whole different animal, but I do hope my point is made.

In terms of trust, I can only say this: I trust Opera until they break my trust. I'll choose to trust Opera, but I also choose to verify what Opera does.

BTW: Thank you for your viewpoints too, as they do matter!

@treego I'm happy that you love these editions. If you read my comments and believed I said they were pulling down the performance of the browser, then let me clarify:

The more you add to the core browser, the more you have system resources being impacted. Could we not have a happy medium and allow for the choice to install or not? Would that not make everyone happy? I believe (again, my own opinion) that constantly adding functionality to the "core" of the browser dilutes the performance of the core and are unnecessary to browse the internet (the purpose of a browser). Why not have these extra things as a choice to install, rather than a forced requirement?

Also, there is a matter of personally identifiable information or PII: has Opera disclosed EXACTLY what data is being shared with this extra "weather" and function? Is it open-source and peer-reviewed or is it proprietary to Opera? What metrics and data is this function collecting? If I "turn it off", is it still functioning in the background of the core browser? I would much rather install my own weather tool than have an unvetted, unknown "weather" function that transmits/receives data that is NOT disclosed.
I'd say, if Opera wants to incorporate this kind of thing, MAKE IT OPTIONAL, NOT MANDATORY. In this way, everyone is happy; you service the ENTIRE community and not just the people that like their updates while alienating those that hate these surprises and are concerned of leaking my private information to Opera and/or their entities.
Hey Opera, any thoughts on this?

Please - No More Bloat.
Please provide a way to Uninstall and completely Remove (by deleting all files, reg keys, etc.) twitter and "weather" integration. IMHO - It's not wanted / needed. I believe (again, IMHO) it would better serve the community if these decisions were made by the community instead of the whims of management (maybe forming a consumer board where these decisions could be vetted????). It would also better serve everyone if these changes were Optional and not integrated, perhaps as Plug-ins , addons or extensions. Core browsing is what a browser is; anything else is [Caps are not allowed] and if a user wants it, they themselves could choose to install it. Please stop adding superfluous non-core-browser functionality and DO optimize your javascript and other engines to the fastest it could be; also updating integrated technologies to the latest standards would be a boon to you as well. I think being the king of web functionality and of speed is better serving the community and yourselves then adding all this ridiculous stuff.

• Please provide a way to completely Uninstall and Delete all [Caps are not allowed] functionality, including but not limited to "weather", twitter, "flow", speed dial, etc. (If it has nothing to do with the core browser, [Caps are not allowed] and should be and [Caps are not allowed] - this is where a consumer board driven and vetted by the end users could help).
• [Caps are not allowed] of adding stuff to the browser [Caps are not allowed] the user if they want it [Caps are not allowed] ! There should be a way of Avoiding the install altogether from the Beginning , instead of turning Off a new feature and having [Caps are not allowed] .
• [Caps are not allowed] , ie, faster javascript engine rendering, etc.

Please - No More Bloat. Please provide a way to Uninstall and completely Remove (by deleting all files, reg keys, etc.) twitter and "weather" integration. IMHO - It's not wanted / needed. I believe (again, IMHO) it would better serve the community if these decisions were made by the community instead of the whims of management (maybe forming a consumer board where these decisions could be vetted????). It would also better serve everyone if these changes were Optional and not integrated, perhaps as Plug-ins or extensions. Core browsing is what a browser is; anything else is [Caps are not allowed] and if a user wants it, they themselves could choose to install it. Please stop adding superfluous non-core-browser functionality and do optimize your javascript and other engines to the fastest it could be; also updating integrated technologies to the latest standards would be a boon to you as well. I think being the king of web functionality and of speed is better serving the community and yourselves then adding all this ridiculous stuff.

@blackbird71 - Thank you for writing something constructive.

I speak purely from a post-Presto perspective and my own experience with the current Opera.

Perhaps I was too "doom and gloom", so please forgive the tone. No offense meant to anyone. I have grown over many years to depend on Opera for work and home. Here's what happened to cause my post:

I was pissed off to find my "stash" gone.

It escalated when I found no way to restore stash without losing the new favorites functionality.

It got worse when I saw speed dial buttons lost the HTML picture rendering and MOST thumbnails were replaced with either a logo I didn't immediately recognize or alternating font texts (or configuration setting to CHOOSE).

To top it off, I then discovered that there was no way to PREVENT all of this with the lack of an Auto-Update-Disable option.

I believed that it would be beneficial if I iterated my own end user experience. I know I can't be the only one that got this update and wasn't BAFFLED at the least.

Look, if I didn't care about this browser, TRUST ME, I wouldn't have written a thing and just dumped Opera at this point. I felt by posting something about what happened in the field, you guys would get the perspective of just how wrong this update methodology is.

Again, it's only my opinion and I could be the only one. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

<RANT BEGIN>

I've been a long time user of Opera and I'm extremely frustrated with the direction the browser has taken. I've never voiced my concerns prior to today, but today's UNWELCOME update has forced me to voice my opinion.

IMHO: Please stop FORCING "NEW FEATURES" and MANDATORY "BUG/SECURITY UPDATES" at the same time! They are NOT ONE AND THE SAME.

Opera Dev's: Read the above postings...Again, IMHO either let the end user DISABLE AUTO-UPDATING or SPLIT YOUR BUILDS; new features SEPARATE from mandatory bug/security updates. I believe that if you just do this, MOST of what people are complaining about would be remediated.

Does it make sense to put new features that have not been vetted to the community INTO THE STABLE BUILD? I think NOT! However, it DOES make sense to put bug/security features into STABLE!

Put NEW FEATURES in a Dev build and keep STABLE, well STABLE!

Also, what is your target audience for Opera (Desktop)? (certainly not any company or corporation). Desktop change-control is PARAMOUNT in those environments, especially corporate. Slip in new features without telling them BEFORE HAND, remove/change options like Bookmarking to Stash to Bookmarking again but WITHOUT Stash, don't give them the option to disable automatic updates (to freeze a build) AND you've just LOST A CUSTOMER, I guarantee it.

Listen People: Obviously, your current methods are starting to piss people off (yup, I'm one of them). I would suggest, as someone with a vested interest in seeing Opera succeed, LISTEN TO YOUR BASE.

I hope this helps. Just speaking solely for myself, if this behavior continues, I will abandon Opera and go back to IE (I thought I'd NEVER hear me say that!) (but seriously, I'll find something else to use)

<RANT END>