Let's stop this war
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nightmaresoul last edited by
Ah, I see the rabble is out and about spreading lies, distortions and misinformation. One has to wonder why they continue to haunt a place they appear to hate so vehemently. Opera Presto is dead in terms of future development. Opera Blink is the new Opera. DEAL WITH IT.
`LueshinoThis is a prime example of missing the point. The Thread's name is "Let's Stop this War" yet calling people you disagree with rabble is not going to help that cause, as a matter of fact it very well could inflame the problem. Equally you state that they are spreading lies, distortions, and misinformation, yet offer no corrections or state what aspects of where the claims are false while providing citations to the accurate information. Also the Prestovists or old power users, do not hate Opera if they did then they would just walk already. It is simply that they loved Opera when it was Presto, and would like to see what they loved return in one fashion or another.
@Ersi
I think in general terms the Widgets failed to gain traction and a mass following of development from the user base. I could of course be incorrect about the three features your mentioning as they were not features I used; however I believe that when they phased out Widgets they implemented extensions at about the same time. As for Unite I believe they only changed its name or Turbo or possibly Dragonfly ? As for voice I remember its addition but do not recall it being functional the few times I attempted to play with it. Either or you have at least started something I was hoping someone would do which is helping to list all features of the Presto versions of Opera. As I think that with a viable list of all the power features found in Presto, Lem729 could potentially offer a list of extensions that may be able to at least mimic those features for 20 and help calm some of the anger and disappointment due to the loss of those native features.
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nightmaresoul last edited by
@Lem729
Sorry your my current extension Guru, so I may have just signed you up for a horribly tedious task. -
Deleted User last edited by
LOL... Let's see - according to the dictionary rabble means a: mob, crowd, throng, gang, swarm, horde, pack, mass and generally angry can be added as an appropriate adjective. Yes, indeed... we have among us a rabble who refuse to listen and simply whine on and on as though their whining will produce positive results. It won't. The so-called War is non-existent. Well, it exists insofar as there is disagreement between two groups but that is hardly a war. However, since the disagreement does exist (and in some cases it's downright nasty from the whining group), then here's a news flash for that gang. The War, as it were, is over. You've lost. Presto will not continue to be developed. Can you grasp that fact? Evidently while you enjoy likening yourselves to a power group of users, those who continue to complain and whine the loudest have difficulty grasping simple facts. So allow me to offer some constructive advice:
- Continue to use whatever version of Opera Presto you currently use and be content
- Install Opera 20+ alongside your current browser and watch its development with an OPEN MIND
- Find an alternate browser and be content
- Stop your whining, backbiting, blaming, prognosticating and just generally being tiresome trolls
There you go. And I won't even charge you for this advice. BTW... Opera 20 is awesome.
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colderwinters last edited by
Did this thread make it to page 2 yet ? Damn it's still the first one listed at the top
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Deleted User last edited by
Did this thread make it to page 2 yet ?
I have to admit to enjoying your sense of humor. In real life, I think we could sit down, have a beer and enjoy a few laughs.
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findkfn last edited by
A good beer and some reading in this forum and the blog is sometimes all you need to have some fun
Im feeling back in the old Amiga vs Atari days....
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linuxmint7 last edited by
Im feeling back in the old Amiga vs Atari days....
Amiga was best, and you know it.
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jito463 last edited by
I wish I still had my Commodore Amiga 2000. That was my first real computer (I'm not counting my sisters TRS-80, or the Commodore 64 I had), and the one I have the most fond memories of. I wouldn't trade it for what I have right now, but I would definitely love to fire it up again, and play some of the old classic games I had on it.
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lem729 last edited by
After -- burp -- the beers and camaraderie, we can go back to hurling hand grenades. @nighmaresoul. What a hoot!
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nightmaresoul last edited by
LOL... Let's see - according to the dictionary rabble means a: mob, crowd, throng, gang, swarm, horde, pack, mass and generally angry can be added as an appropriate adjective. Yes, indeed... we have among us a rabble who refuse to listen and simply whine on and on as though their whining will produce positive results. It won't. The so-called War is non-existent. Well, it exists insofar as there is disagreement between two groups but that is hardly a war. However, since the disagreement does exist (and in some cases it's downright nasty from the whining group), then here's a news flash for that gang. The War, as it were, is over. You've lost. Presto will not continue to be developed. Can you grasp that fact? Evidently while you enjoy likening yourselves to a power group of users, those who continue to complain and whine the loudest have difficulty grasping simple facts. So allow me to offer some constructive advice:
Continue to use whatever version of Opera Presto you currently use and be content
Install Opera 20+ alongside your current browser and watch its development with an OPEN MIND
Find an alternate browser and be content
Stop your whining, backbiting, blaming, prognosticating and just generally being tiresome trollsThere you go. And I won't even charge you for this advice. BTW... Opera 20 is awesome.
@Leushino, Actually that would be a thesaurus your quoting. The Dictionary would state the definition of Rabble like this "rabble noun
1.disorderly crowd; mob.
2.the rabble, the lower classes; the common people"
Which to call anyone who holds a differing opinion as a lower class is insulting. As for a mob it has a similarly less glorified definitions that are often the main interpretation to native speakers of the language. As for the term war, I will give you that this is not a war by common definition so much as a disagreement that leads to the concept of a flame-war upon the forums. Again however you are adding to the problem yet again by blaming the Prestovists, and then also calling them trolls. Although your first, and second pieces of advice are good,the third is a good portion of the aim of posts where the flame-wars have erupted. The Forth however isn't terribly helpful. Oh well..
Anyhow I'll take a Guinness, my old Amiga 1200..Hooray for Bards Tales.
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Deleted User last edited by
I think in general terms the Widgets failed to gain traction and a mass following of development from the user base. I could of course be incorrect about the three features your mentioning as they were not features I used; however I believe that when they phased out Widgets they implemented extensions at about the same time. As for Unite I believe they only changed its name or Turbo or possibly Dragonfly ? As for voice I remember its addition but do not recall it being functional the few times I attempted to play with it.
Voice didn't work for me either when it was first released, but there was improvement and I actually had it read to me at least one full book length of text. I used it every once in a while.
Unite had nothing to do with Turbo or Dragonfly. Unite was a sharing server with the ability to connect peer to peer. It had a few apps inbuilt, and users quickly built and shared more apps.
Wiedgets did not fail in any way. They had a large following among the user base and their discontinuation was a sore disappointment. The developers of widgets were, again users themselves. Opera thrived on user activism. Userjs was developed and shared by users. Skins were also developed and shared by users. Version 12 broke skins too.
Version 12 was a humiliating punch in the face of widget, skin, and Unite developers - who were all users doing free work. The company turned its back to voluntary activists who had been the cream of web-browsing world. And they also deleted their work and the wealth of knowledge that was in the old forums, blogs, widget, skins, unite, setup and userjs sharing sites.
It takes a pretty profound lack of conscience to do that. This company managed to pull it off.
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linuxmint7 last edited by
my old Amiga 1200..
I still have mine... somewhere. I may still even have my A500plus too. My, those were the days...
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blackbird71 last edited by... Explain Chrome, MSIE, Firefox, UC Browser, Maxton, Dolphin then. Every browser is free, that's just the way it works. The fact that an organization has to find some way around it to make money, is hardly my problem. ...
Opera has created an adience of powerusers for itself, and by crippling the browser they've essentially said "bye bye" to their powerusers, because quite frankly Opera 13 and later are a ... disgrace to any poweruser. Opera might not realize that adding features doesn't inhibit the use by novice users, and Opera certainly doesn't realize that powerusers sometimes have an audience of their own to persuade into using Opera. This has stopped, of course.But the fact is that it is your problem. Those other browsers make their creators revenue off of either the enhancement they provide to other cash-generating services offered by the browser creators or directly via "rent" revenue from click-counts and favored browser placements... the greater the browser market share, the greater the revenue that comes in. And that broad market out there, quite frankly, doesn't in the main give a flying care about many of the "features" that expert/loyal users (myself included) want in a browser. That's the problem. The pie that browser creators must compete for to grow revenue is made up largely of unsophisticated users with few complex configurability or in-depth feature demands - they want it to be fast, pretty, and reliable with a few "clever" and "neat" features. But those of us who use browsers as a tool demand in-depth configurability and multiple accessible settings and features, and it costs browser makers money/resources to include the options to control those... money for things the mass market cares little about.
Put another way, as an example, it costs little or nothing up front to leave bookmarking out of a new browser design; on the other hand, it costs real money to reliably put a bookmarks manager, bookmarks display methodology, integration with browser control and operation philosophy, bookmark search capability, bookmark editing, etc into the browser. And that money must be spent even if the resulting feature is hidden behind an options button or buried within an options menu so as not to make the browser appear too complex to those in the mass market. What governs the business decision is whether the creators believe the revenue lost by alientating expert/loyal users from not including bookmarks will be far more made up by the new users (and revenue) gained from making the browser more appealing in other ways to the mass-market users out there who care little about bookmarks. My real point here is that decision is based on what the creators believe about the market, not whether or not that ends up being an accurate market assessment as events unfold.
For a long time, Opera focused on configurability, detailed features, and tons of settings, and we saw the results unfold in the marvelous tool that was Presto Opera. Yet Opera's desktop market share never "took off" and their revenue return was disappointing. There may have been many reasons for that, but Opera has come to believe they spent too much development time lost in the details and their own rendering engine instead of chasing the larger market and its user interests. Asking Opera to return to a Presto-style highly configurable browser, in their view, is asking them to be content to never move their market share above that represented by a handful of dedicated expert/loyal users.
Certainly, there are more factors in the Blink decision than just these elements, but as I stated earlier, I believe the business side of things has played a much larger role than we as expert/loyal users realize... and I feel it important to keep the business aspect clearly in sight. We may not like it, but we cannot ignore it.
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A Former User last edited by
Whilst Opera cannot be blamed for the demise of Voice, they can and should be blamed for withdrawing support for Widgets, Unite, and Skins. It was a huge slap in the face for those developers who spent hundreds or thousands of hours of their free time developing add-ons, blogs, and wiki threads, to improve the Opera experience.
Sites like this: http://home.wanadoo.nl/sipke.reina/opera/images.html
for example, were developed for the benefit of skin developers, and Tomu laboriously maintained the documentation of skin changes for each update as well as developing numerous beautiful skins. This Opera Wiki page gives an idea of how much work was involved.
http://operawiki.info/AdvancedSkinGuide
I only use one widget, an Analogue Clock, but it's useful and still runs even if Opera is not running.
Unite was also a useful way to share files, though I manage OK with Wikisend, which is a good substitute for most of what I did with Opera Unite.
To rub salt into the wound, most of the useful threads on MyOpera were not transferred to this new forum, and the valuable information is now hard to find by trawling web archives. This current forum is ruined by spam and weak moderation. Not that the old one was much better in the latter months, after the announcement to close it, but it used to be much better a year or so back.
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lem729 last edited by
I'm with you absolutely. I remember the forum from quite a few years ago. And the forum was so good it was one of the draws of using Opera. You got help on features! It's not anywhere near what it was. There are aspects now very frustrating. You can't communicate with people individually through a personal note, the spam is awful, the personal attacks are bad (no dobt discouraging newbies to try or to stay with Opera), the search vehicle is very weak, getting an icon for your avatar is complicated -- who wants to register at another website. You ought to be able to just drag an icon that you like to your profile. I think with icons people might be more human, and not as dismissive-insulting to others.
On Opera Voice, it was always terribly rudimentary. It wasn't worth playing with. I used to use Dragon Naturally Speaking. Now I find microsoft Speech recognition with (added to it a third party App called Voice finger quite good -- at least for browsing when the spirit moves me not to type. And it can be entertaining. I can even do hands free browsing on Opera 20 if I chose. (Still I use it more for entertainment, sometimes to rest my hands from overuse). Opera was in way over their head with their voice feature. The old Opera had a lot of nice stuff. But there are still pluses and minuses to the change, and life goes on. Opera 20 has some very unique, quite good stuff
The New opera Opera can still be a fine browser, and maybe even there can be an educational and fun community/forum here that Opera will decide to grow again into something better -- though if they follow the squabbles, personal attacks, war -- Prestoists versus Blinkists -- in the forum, they may think it's not worth the money and energy. Just close it down!. -
DarthMordred last edited by
I really think that everyone has the right to come here in this forum and report their dissatisfaction with the sudden technological change OPERA ASA, which has damaged many loyal users, and now deals with the following situation: Deal with it or let us .
It is very painful to read that after a decade using opera.
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leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by
I really think that everyone has the right to come here in this forum and report their dissatisfaction with the sudden technological change OPERA ASA, which has damaged many loyal users, and now deals with the following situation: Deal with it or let us .
The point is how this is done. It's everyone's right to not like something and to express it, but when someone starts to act like a child, to rant everywhere and everytime, to repeat the same mimini al over around including hijackling topics for it then this person is just trolling.
