Opera = Chrome,,, Why bother with Opera at all?
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blackbird71 last edited byI think lem729 is an Opera traitor. He obviously doent know what hes talking about and thinks the newest version of Opera is better than past versions. Another Chrome fan boy lover.
Are you not able to carry on an intelligent discussion without name-calling? Spending a few more minutes reading posts for their full content, and spending less time conjuring up 'clever', sarcastic, ad hominem attacks might help a lot. The immature name-calling is what has led many users (and developers?) to dismiss out-of-hand many of the posts and threads that otherwise contain serious statements about the impact of missing Old Opera features and why they represent major user problems for various long-term Opera users.
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Deleted User last edited by
LOL... lem... you must be receiving millions of dollars from Opera for making a positive statement about the new browser... right? Actually, I'm entirely with you. I don't buy the "I've been promoting Opera since forever" while at the same time using Chrome. Opera is NOT Chrome as you rightly point out. I look forward to what the Opera Team will continue to deliver but I know that users like us will be branded fanboys and shills.
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blackbird71 last edited by
... I don't buy the "I've been promoting Opera since forever" while at the same time using Chrome. Opera is NOT Chrome as you rightly point out. ...
@therealpest will, of course, have to answer for himself. But to me, it seems quite plausible that he used Old Opera versions for a long time on his iMac and recommended Opera to others, then got a new Win7 system and put Chrome on it simply to try that out, experiencing the limitations he's noted. As a result, he indeed may have downloaded and tried Opera 20 with the resulting opinions he's noted. His equating Opera to Chrome appears (to me) to stem simply from his focus on what he deems is necessary configurability in certain areas that is lacking for him in both Chrome and Blink Opera, a tempting comparison to make in part because they share the same engine ancestory and similar resultant architectural consequences that can impact users.
The problem, as in so many complaint postings, is that the original or later-posting users with negative experiences too often get carried away in their wording, applying sarcasm or exaggerated terminology to make or emphasize a point - or possibly simply out of frustration and emotion. I wish it were otherwise, because I still believe that patient, intelligent discussion brings out points of view and explanations that might yet have value in the development process. In any case, over-stating complaints results in flame-wars, and threads end up tangled in back-and-forth attacks between users, wherein the factual core of genuine user issues gets buried and even discredited. As I noted, I truly wish it were otherwise.
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A Former User last edited by admin
Wow, all of that because of "Fit to Width"? Yawn...
I'll just leave this here: Opera 20 vs Chrome.
And since your thread is a rhetorical question that doesn't accept counter-arguments I'm flagging it so hopefully it's closed and you don't have to worry about being attacked by kiddies who are very inferior compared to you ok?
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meridivs last edited by
For me it's obvious - the Opera 20 design team had become the kind that could only hear themselves talk and the others praise some new nothings.
Opera was on the wrong path since some time so maybe it's time to just let it go and "grow-up" as some avangardist here was suggesting.
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Deleted User last edited by
It's pretty much a moot point at this point. Opera ditched Presto, which meant they had to ditch literally everything and start over by taking Chromium and then putting in years of work on retrofitting features they already had to it.
I have been an Opera user for years. I actually paid for it when it was commercial back in the day. And right now, looking at Firefox with addons vs Opera 20+ with addons, Firefox is a much better Opera than Opera, and that is also where I will be going once 12.16 is too much of a hassle due to lack of development. End of an era.
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A Former User last edited by
I might have said this elsewhere but take a look at Opera Dev 22 and the work the Opera team are doing to it. It is pretty much all back end work which once dealt with can free up some time to work on the front end. Do the haters think the back end work that ensures the browser can be safe, secure and as bug free as possible writes itself? Still, I don't hold much breath the haters will change their tune anytime soon, if at all.
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albatros48 last edited by
I have been an Opera user for years. I actually paid for it when it was commercial back in the day. And right now, looking at Firefox with addons vs Opera 20+ with addons, Firefox is a much better Opera than Opera, and that is also where I will be going once 12.16 is too much of a hassle due to lack of development. End of an era.
You should not only consider the presence of addons, where most are useless.
Current Opera is far more stable, fast and quick starting as ever Firefox.
I use Firefox as second browser and it crashes often, which I never experienced with Opera.Also have a look how much space more on the screen you have left with opera, which can be used for browsing.
Not only a nice appearance counts for me, I am primary for performance, reliability and practical use. -
berng last edited by
Opera ditched Presto which meant they ditched just about everything when starting over with Chromium.
I have been an Opera user for years. I paid for it when it was commercial back in the day. I have Firefox with about 20 addons vs Opera 20 with three. Opera is much better Firefox. With Presto it was a constant hassle using Opera due to web page rendering issues. I needed Firefox as a fallback. Now it looks like I can actually permanently dump Firefox.
Start of an era.
ps - These anecdotal comments, like mine above, are useless. What counts is usage statistics and income. Statistics are going up because of higher retention. That is what Opera looks at.
Opera stats
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Feb 2014 - 1.9%
May 2013 - 1.6%http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php?year=2013&month=5
March 2014 - 2.9%
May 2013 - 2.4%There are significant differences, however, the trend in them seems to be an upwards count.
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linuxmint7 last edited by
As a counter argument to the topic subject.
I'm pretty much a 99% Linux user most of the time so don't really get chance to use Opera (Blink) much, but do use it (Opera Developer) now and again to see how things are moving along. Still use Opera (Presto) 12.14 as my main (default) browser (and mail client) in Linux and Windows (when I'm there). And occasionally use Chromium to test sites that appear to not be working (correctly) in Opera (Presto) 12.14.
Ok!, just added a few extensions in Chromium to (hopefully) add functionality that is already native to Opera (Blink) on Windows that I use extensively, namely 'rocker gestures', 'auto scroll', a proper 'speed dial' among others.
I only got as far as those three (and I tried many alternative extensions), and was hoping to add more eventually, but promptly gave up. Because all I can say is, what a complete and utter nightmare. For a start 'rocker gestures' don't function properly, no matter which extension you choose, context menu keeps popping up all the time, only works on certain pages (not just exempt from google pages), no support for continuous button pressing to navigate (backwards or forwards) through many pages, some even disable the speed dial page ???.
Speed dial alternatives don't seem to add dynamic support for adding content (shortcuts, icons), no context menu support, no option to choose from open tabs or recently visited sites, just two text areas to type a URL and a label.
Auto scroll, surely this should be native, no ?. Anyway, even that doesn't work properly, only works on certain pages/sites (not just exempt from google pages), why ?, who knows.
You all moan at Opera for not having a fully functional (and kitted out) bookmarks manager, but at least it has the basics down, or at the very least alternative options to use for the time being (such as stash, speed dial ((with folder support)) until more functionality is eventually added.
The best 'I' can describe the alternative browsers (competition ?) from an Arden Opera user (that still uses Presto) is just one big bunch of ill conceived, mis-managed hacks. And Opera (Blink) is a much better proposition (and a breath of fresh air compared to the others) for someone coming from a history of using Opera Classic (Presto) pretty much exclusively. Though I am not about to give-up using Opera Classic any time soon, but I am pretty sure which path I will be taking when I will eventually have to (if/when a Linux version sees the light of day).
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Deleted User last edited by
The best 'I' can describe the alternative browsers (competition ?) from an Arden Opera user (that still uses Presto) is just one big bunch of ill conceived, mis-managed hacks. And Opera (Blink) is a much better proposition (and a breath of fresh air compared to the others)
A breath of fresh air... I like that. Couldn't have described it better.
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blackbird71 last edited by
... Do the haters think the back end work that ensures the browser can be safe, secure and as bug free as possible writes itself? Still, I don't hold much breath the haters will change their tune anytime soon, if at all.
I believe the reason for a lot of the user "hate and discontent" seen here is a combination of disappointment, uncertainty, and frustration. Users, especially genuine "power users" and long-termers, develop usage patterns reliant on unique features and customizations in a browser. When those are disrupted by a major browser redesign, disappointment results. If it's uncertain whether those features and customizations will ever be returned, when, or in what form, then frustration sets in, along with a need to explain to Opera how they need the missing element. And for some of those users, that frustration turns to expressions of resentment and anger, as they try to convince Opera of their need. Those users' expressions will generally not exhibit "patience" or a clear understanding of the scope of "backend" work involved, mainly because the users see no schedule or are given any solid assurance that the missing features or customizations will ever return.
One of the key things that, to me, seems to make the Opera redesign uproar rather unique and more persistent in all the years I've observed the ebb and flow of PC software is that Opera has traditionally played its cards very close to its chest. It rarely announces anything about its work until it's at the moment of release... especially with regard to what are called "features" or "settings". And when it does, those announcements are usually buried in individual comments or blog entries of its developers. While all commercial software companies do this to some extent, Opera seems far more 'private' in this way than most. When the level of browser change and impact upon users has been as profound as this, one result is major user uncertainty about whether particular now-missing features or tweaks will ever reappear or how 'crippled' they might seem if they do. With such a vast array of customization and feature sets that were poured into Old Opera now either missing or significantly altered in New Opera, it's almost a slam-dunk that there will be a similarly vast array of unique disappointment-uncertainty-frustration experiences amongst users... no two users were impacted exactly the same way, so no two users would express their impact the same way.
Though "bookmarks" is a now-weary subject for many readers, it serves as a good example of the Opera redesign situation. First, users were assured the Blink changes to Opera would be "under-the-hood". Then as the first version appeared, users were told they didn't really need the missing bookmarks feature - Stash was the new, better way of doing things. As an uproar predictably exploded, inklings were finally given that just maybe bookmarks would be somehow addressed. Then the QAB appeared, limited, and without any real way of customizing it... to be followed with a hint or two that more 'might' be done on it. Now we have a QAB, renamed to a bookmarks bar, that is somewhat customizable, but without an integrated manager capable of importing/exporting from other browsers, etc - but with an inkling given users that a more comprehensive manager involving Stash, SpeedDial and Bookmarks might be forthcoming at some 'future' point. To a user dependent on a robust bookmarks feature in a browser, such a progression almost seems designed to maximize his frustration about what is going on and what to expect.
There are dozens and dozens of now-missing "features" that impact great numbers of previous Opera users in different ways, and the same 'bookmarks'-like pattern is playing out in hundreds of other unique ways for such users. As Old Opera users move to New Opera for the first time, in many cases utterly ignorant of all that's occurred this past year, these "realization/frustration bombs" just keep going off over and over. I don't honestly expect Opera to change its culture to become more forthcoming about its specific "feature" plans, but I do honestly believe that's precisely what is needed to recoup the situation. Unless some of the nagging uncertainty is removed, the frustration and "need to express" will continue for a very long time to come... and the "bombs" will just keep going off.
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Deleted User last edited by
Agreed... the frustration will continue but the bombs (as it were) do not need to keep going off IF people would behave civilly. What good does vulgarity do? What possible good outcome can result from insulting the developers or claiming Opera has sold out to the devil? And when Opera is defended against such outrageous claims and statements (and why shouldn't it be defended?) what good can come from attacking the defender and claiming he is a shill and should just shut up and go away? The answer is: no good whatsoever. It's one thing to be frustrated and present your feature requests respectfully and quite another to start posts attempting to boycott Opera and "set off bombs" as you have described it. And undoubtedly I will now be attacked for having the audacity to speak up in Opera's defense.
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blackbird71 last edited by
Agreed... the frustration will continue but the bombs (as it were) do not need to keep going off IF people would behave civilly. What good does vulgarity do? What possible good outcome can result from insulting the developers or claiming Opera has sold out to the devil? And when Opera is defended against such outrageous claims and statements (and why shouldn't it be defended?) what good can come from attacking the defender and claiming he is a shill and should just shut up and go away? The answer is: no good whatsoever. It's one thing to be frustrated and present your feature requests respectfully and quite another to start posts attempting to boycott Opera and "set off bombs" as you have described it. And undoubtedly I will now be attacked for having the audacity to speak up in Opera's defense.
On that we totally agree. Vulgarity and obscenity are the last resort of people who lack confidence in what they're asserting to be true. In reality, they undercut the case they're trying to present, alienating the very readers who might be able to do something about the situation. And it's not "defending Opera" to point that out.
I neither ask nor expect other users to view Old Opera's usefulness and New Opera's limitations which I perceive in exactly the same way I see them. I do expect and appreciate the opportunity to respectfully "make my case" in Opera's forums and blogs, even on multiple occasions, provided I do so courteously and with the understanding that Opera is under no obligation to meet my expectations or needs. What troubles me are those users, especially with complaints similar to mine, who display temper tantrums in the forums and thereby turn off even undecided users and developers from openly hearing the complaints with a mindset framed to deal with them. What troubles me even more is that this spirit of erupting explosively and abusively the moment one's expectations aren't met has become something of a characteristic of the age, and it is leading to ever more prevalent forms of "rage" in cultures the world over. That it is certainly not a good thing.
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Deleted User last edited by
What troubles me are those users, especially with complaints similar to mine, who display temper tantrums in the forums and thereby turn off even undecided users and developers from openly hearing the complaints with a mindset framed to deal with them. What troubles me even more is that this spirit of erupting explosively and abusively the moment one's expectations aren't met has become something of a characteristic of the age, and it is leading to ever more prevalent forms of "rage" in cultures the world over. That it is certainly not a good thing.
I see it as the age of entitlement. You (Opera) OWE me. You (Opera) must do exactly as I say and when I say it. I don't like the way you have changed your browser and now I'm entitled to demean you, threaten you and even encourage others to boycott you UNTIL such time as you come to your senses and do as I say. And I don't CARE what you or anyone else says. I don't CARE that the browser is free. I'm still entitled to have it just the way I want it.
Frankly, there were some things about Opera Presto that I now miss. I've made a few requests many months ago in the appropriate forum but I'm not beating a drum daily to demand my requests be met. Maybe patience comes with age, I don't know. I suspect that some of the more vociferous, angry posters are relatively young and immature.
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lem729 last edited by
Good point, Leushino. Opera is free. As such it's a gift. We can choose between different products, and encourage developers. But being angry here over my rights in a free product is ludicrous. We don't risk losing money. They (the developers)do! I wish (smile) I were younger, even if -- haha -- angry. Like you Leushino, I have features I wish were still there from Opera Presto, But what there is here on the desktop, and Coast with Opera, and Opera for Android are pretty well done. Like wow. And Firefox, IE and Chrome are well done also. For some reason, even with this changed Opera, I prefer and enjoy the look, and what it does. I will end up using the browser that I enjoy most. For the moment, I still prefer Opera.
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colderwinters last edited by
I'm kinda glad Opera went down the road it did, I dont need an Effing Google browser, I do have two Chrome type browsers on my computer though but they arent my main default browser and thats Comodo Dragon and SRWare Iron, I use them once in a while. I have used Opera as my main browser since 2002 or earlier, even paid for some of the earlier versions. About 3 weeks ago I realised Opera 12.16 hadnt updated itself in about 6 months, I'm a techie type, I tweak shit and realized the New Opera is hopeless and sucks even worse than Chrome, shit Comodo Dragon and SRWare Iron can do tons more than Opera, It's at this point I start looking around for a new browser. I never used firefox alot even though I've always has it installed, but then I find Comodo Ice Dragon, a super secure version of Firefox, been using it about a week now and Man, It's the best browser I've ever used, User configurable, tons of Extensions if you need them. I have uninstalled The New Opera as well as the old Opera 12.16 from my main computer here, and will do it on my other computers also, No Opera on my tablet either I use UC Browser HD on that as well as UC Browser on my phone, I dont miss Opera at all, Comodo Ice dragon kicks ass, just use Auto-Sort Bookmarks extension for better sorting of your bookmarks and your set heres a screenshot of Ice Dragon----->http://s67.photobucket.com/user/ColdWinter61/media/IceDragon2Screenshot_zpsc29c6f39.jpg.html
Ice Dragon Bookmarks Screenshot-----> http://s67.photobucket.com/user/ColdWinter61/media/IceDragonBookmarks_zps2ede93e3.jpg.html
Opera Browser 1996----2013 -
alreadybanned last edited by
Opera ditched Presto which meant they ditched just about everything when starting over with Chromium.
I have been an Opera user for years. I paid for it when it was commercial back in the day. I have Firefox with about 20 addons vs Opera 20 with three. Opera is much better Firefox. With Presto it was a constant hassle using Opera due to web page rendering issues. I needed Firefox as a fallback. Now it looks like I can actually permanently dump Firefox.
Start of an era.
ps - These anecdotal comments, like mine above, are useless. What counts is usage statistics and income. Statistics are going up because of higher retention. That is what Opera looks at.
Opera stats
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Feb 2014 - 1.9%
May 2013 - 1.6%
http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php?year=2013&month=5
March 2014 - 2.9%
May 2013 - 2.4%
There are significant differences, however, the trend in them seems to be an upwards count.You can take those number with a grain of salt.
W3Counter - This site counts the last 15,000 page views from each of approximately 70,000 websites. This limits the influence of sites with more than 15,000 monthly visitors on the usage statistics.On the other hand - Wikimedia traffic analysis reports are based on server logs of about 4 billion page requests per month, based on the user agent information that accompanied the requests. These server logs cover requests to all the Wikimedia Foundation projects, including Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons, Wiktionary, Wikibooks, Wikiquote, Wikisource, Wikinews, Wikiversity and others.
Jan.2013 - Desktop 2.72% Total 3.88%
Dec.2013 - Desktop 1.54% Total 2.86%
Jan.2014 - Desktop 1.51% Total 2.83%
Feb.2014 - Desktop 1.50% Total 2.77% -
alreadybanned last edited by
Good point, Leushino. Opera is free. As such it's a gift. We can choose between different products, and encourage developers. But being angry here over my rights in a free product is ludicrous. We don't risk losing money. They (the developers)do! I wish (smile) I were younger, even if -- haha -- angry. Like you Leushino, I have features I wish were still there from Opera Presto, But what there is here on the desktop, and Coast with Opera, and Opera for Android are pretty well done. Like wow. And Firefox, IE and Chrome are well done also. For some reason, even with this changed Opera, I prefer and enjoy the look, and what it does. I will end up using the browser that I enjoy most. For the moment, I still prefer Opera.
There is no choice in a monoculture which is what is happening with browsers. While the latest nightly builds of Firefox still use the Gecko engine, they are dumbing dow...er..I mean streamlining the interface which translates into less customization. So once again, work flow suffers as it does with finger painting OS'
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lem729 last edited by
Sometimes we go one step back, to be able to go two steps forward.
While in the past, the browsers had many fine features, there are issues of speed, and simplicity (that some want) (while others want infinite customization), and there's a balance at issue. Not everyone may end up instantly happy.
The thing to keep in mind is that we are NOT paying for the damn product (though I did pay my pittance for it many years ago). It's a freebie. When I pay good money for something and the quality is going downhill, I have a reason to be concerned about the civilization and the culture.
Here, I'm not ready to start complaining, because this is a product in development. I have an idea what Opera is trying to do, and so far, for me there are things I'm quite happy with, and features I wish would be improved -- with even a look to the past.On Firefox, I definitely liked it much more in the past. At one point, Opera and Firefox were for me close calls, though I preferred Opera. Now, I feel lost in extension bloated Firefox. I don't like the look, and have some technical problems with using it (flash conflicts, etc.). I personally find the minimalist look in Opera appealing, have always thought that a limitation with Opera was its non-development of extensions (now mostly addressed through the new browser engine, which opens the door to all of the chrome extensions), and I salute Opera for its invention of the speed dial -- made better through its folder innovation. Opera is a very creative company. Look at the innovations in the Coast browser for the Ipad. It has some shortcoming, but it's also, like wow -- another world. I say, hats off too Opera for thinking outside of the box. So be of good cheer: the future may still bring great things.
