Vivaldi

[username342342345]

username342342345 last edited by

Looks very promising. It's what should have happened with opera, add customization to a mainstream rendering engine. It may harm performance to have all features and UI in javascript, but it also bring the ability to affix opera, erm Vivaldi, to any rendering engine. I think it is funny that a browser created only a few months ago is already better than new opera.

Their website is horrible though, and doesn't render well in presto. Looks like a designer ate up all the fad mobile/metro styles and pooped them out onto a web server.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Just to keep perspective, several things have happened and continuing to happen that should be kept in mind as these browsers are developed. Blink Opera was and continues to be viewed by users directly against the background of what existed in Opera 11 and 12. Those are the typical Opera browsers that Opera ASA moved away from, in many users' minds. The constraints of the chromium engine caused a major disruption to the browser's configurability and customizability, compared with what had previously been available to developers in Presto. And the results of the changes were immediately felt by users. The last two years have seen both the devs and users grappling with great adjustment in how things were done and why. Blink Opera has largely come of age constantly being compared against its older brother, Presto Opera.

The Vivaldi browser is destined to be viewed against a background of both Blink Opera and Presto Opera, the former in terms of the here and now, the latter in terms of 'fondly remembered'. Vivaldi has the strategic design advantage of having quietly and carefully observed the unfolding of the Blink Opera saga and all the feedback and performance results of design choices made over the unfolding Blink versions. Vivaldi also is being intentionally designed from a more techno-user and suite-focused perspective than Blink Opera (which has been and continues to be designed more directly for a broad-market, browser-only appeal). Both approaches have their business-perspective risks and rewards, and both approaches will follow somewhat different paths as each tries to find some sweet spot held in the vision of each player. But Vivaldi will grow up being constantly compared to both its older brothers, Presto and Blink Opera, and birth order matters in how things grow up.

Regardless, there remain significant architectural challenges in building various kinds of configurability and features on a chromium foundation. There's no guarantee that the Vivaldi devs will surmount them sufficiently better than have the Opera devs in order to fully please those critical users looking fondly back at Presto Opera days. What we've seen thus far is merely a Tech Preview version of Vivaldi. It holds tantalizing promise. But the real design labor lies ahead, because expectations are always higher for a stable version than a Tech Preview. Where expectations are higher, criticism will be harsher.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Trying it myself right now (posting from Vivaldi ATM).

Frankly, this tech preview is what O 15 should have been from day one.

I can set my tabs to the bottom a-la Opera 12
The zoom bar is back, as is the show/hide images button (no cached mode and it has to reload the page though )
The bookmarks/mail/download bar is right there where it should be... though mail isn't there yet.
Lots of features from the old Opera already implemented, like keyboard shortcut customization, ability to cycle tabs based on last use, not next in list, tab stacking. etc.

It seems like a good start (although some serious bugs) towards reproducing the original Presto Opera with the Chromium engine. I likee :). I was getting tired of Firefox, and Opera 12 was getting too crufty to put up with WRT rendering modern HTML5 pages.

I've been sad since I had to move away from Opera, but hopefully they keep readding features to Vivaldi... if so it'll be my new home browser.

[kapsi]

kapsi last edited by

It's written in HTML5. So it's the same like a webpage. Thus you can e.g. style Vivaldi's interface with CSS

Also they can make Vivaldi a web app. So you can browse while you browse. Maybe as a Chrome extension?

[christoph142]

christoph142 last edited by

Maybe as a Chrome extension?

That's totally possible. If you actually look closely, you will notice that it is one.
I also wrote a proof of concept some time ago... So a browser in your browser is nothing new.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

Agree blackbird71! It's also worth noting that if Opera had ceased to exist after v12, then the Opera Forum and Opera Blog wouldn't exist. This means that the negative reactions to the newer browser wouldn't have existed either. And I'm certain this Vivaldi browser has a lot to do with observing the negative reaction to Opera Blink and aiming to provide a browser for the nostalgic crowd.

But the real design labor lies ahead, because expectations are always higher for a stable version than a Tech Preview. Where expectations are higher, criticism will be harsher.

It's funny, over at the Opera Blogs, people are singing Vivaldi's praises, as if they've ascended to heaven or whatever. Plus some are already commenting on the lack of certain features!! I feel Vivaldi users will be a tough crowd to please over the next year.
http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2015/01/opera-27-computers-bookmarks-tabs-navigation-bar/

So if Vivaldi can eventually do what I had expected from Opera to be done...

As I said in a previous comment to a similar remark, you don't own Opera, which is free btw so stop with this 'what I had expected' remark. No-one, except Opera has any claim or rights to the features in Presto and it's certainly not Opera's duty to serve them to you. Opera have already stated they are not going to fully implement all of Presto's features (and will be creating some new ones). You now have this Vivaldi nostalgia project for that.

[christoph142]

christoph142 last edited by

you don't own Opera, which is free btw so stop with this 'what I had expected' remark

People are free to expect what they want. I had expected Opera to do it, but they didn't. Expecting sth. doesn't mean you're demanding it to happen. (Though I still do demand some features like tab stacking and private tabs and I'm free to do this as well ^^)

it's certainly not Opera's duty to serve them to you

Well, they can obviously do whatever they want, but they better start listening at some point for their own good...

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

...but they better start listening at some point for their own good...

Why? To satisfy a handful of people like you? Opera have already stated they want the browser to grow out of it's niche. And that's all Presto was, a niche browser loved by a handful of geeks/power users and largely ignored by browser testing web designers.

Btw, I 'expected' Adobe to keep selling copies of their Creative Suite and they decided to force everyone to subscribe to it making it too costly for many. Expecting things to always remain as they are, especially with software, will only lead to disappointment.

[christoph142]

christoph142 last edited by

Expecting things to always remain as they are, especially with software, will only lead to disappointment.

Thanks for the lesson, @cozza, but I know my way around here. ^^
I'm studying computer science. I know how business works. And I'm not deaf. I do understand that not every feature request can and will be heard, but that doesn't mean I'm not free to request it.
I have filed many feature requests internally and I'll keep fighting for things that are important to me. It's up to Opera if they deem those relevant, too.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

The word request is very different to the word expect. I was talking about the use of the word expect.

[christoph142]

christoph142 last edited by

I don't know since when you're around, but "had expected" referred to the times before O15 was released, when users were left in total silence implying they would only switch the engine and keep the rest. Most (if not all) of us did expect that back then.

[sgunhouse]

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer last edited by

Since switching to the Blink engine, Opera has had a tough task. They need to do something to differentiate themselves from the exiting browsers. Speed improvements are nice, but only so much is possible in that area precisely because it is the same engine. Given their previous product their existing users had certain other expectations of how Opera would differentiate their browser from others; but Opera seems to have chosen a different route.

Now along comes Vivaldi, trying to do exactly what people expected Opera to do. If Opera continues to do what it has then most of the former Opera users will switch, pure and simple. But Opera/Blink has a higher market share than Presto was ever able to achieve, so I for one do not see the company going away any time soon. Not like Vivaldi will either of course.

The question is, will Vivaldi ever get past Presto's previous 1-2% market share? Not that being a niche browser is untenable from a business perspective, but I'm sure they would hope for more. And now that Opera will be somewhat freed of pressure to mimic Presto, which direction should they go?

[christoph142]

christoph142 last edited by

Uuuh, Steve, you said "expect".
Now you have to fear @cozza's homily, too...

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

FWIW, Opera's words at the time followed along the line that the move away from Presto was "mainly just an under-the-hood change". That did indeed raise certain expectations among Opera's userbase that much of the user-side of Opera would be preserved. I cannot help wondering whether or not those initial words were the result of naivete at the time by those who issued them regarding the inherent architectural issues with Webkit/Blink. But to be fair, there were other words issued at that same time by Opera cautioning users that Opera was intentionally targeting a broader userbase, and that there was no guarantee that certain Opera features would be continued.

In any case, that's ALL in the rear-view mirror now. What I or others hoped for, expected, or simply dreamed would happen has unfolded in its own unique way. Blink Opera is now here for all to see and use. Vivaldi is now emerging for users to also see and use. Both browsers are likely to follow their own distinct paths into the future. Other browsers offer still other paths. The world is constantly changing, software as well. I'm just grateful for the choices still being offered, whether or not any one of them fully meet my hopes or expectations.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

...
The question is, will Vivaldi ever get past Presto's previous 1-2% market share? Not that being a niche browser is untenable from a business perspective, but I'm sure they would hope for more. And now that Opera will be somewhat freed of pressure to mimic Presto, which direction should they go?

I believe the real question is how to truly grow market share without simply eating each other's lunch. If Vivaldi were to absorb "most of the former Opera users", then Opera's remaining market share stats won't look good at all. To truly grow, both browsers have to figure out ways to successfully move users away from Chrome, IE, and FF, since they own the vast share of the browser market. I'm frankly not yet convinced either Opera or Vivaldi really knows yet how to solve that problem. There's a major chasm between having neat, creative technical ideas and having (and promoting) sound, creative concepts that can come to dominate an existing marketplace.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

Opera's days are over now.

[loxiw]

loxiw last edited by

I do not like that flat design, apart from that it's really interesting and I'll consider swapping when the time arrives, that depends of Opera

[georgesywf]

georgesywf last edited by

According to the review of Vivaldi browser on a blog it say that

"Like turbo or off road mode which enables anyone to save data, Vivaldi doesn’t seem to have one "

What you guys think, does vivaldi have a data saving feature or not ?

If not can we expect it in future ?

[sgunhouse]

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer last edited by

It does not currently. It is early yet.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

+1 to what @sgunhouse just wrote. So far, this is just a Technical Preview version, akin to what Opera was releasing developmentally prior to v15. Jon has already noted Vivaldi plans approximately weekly update releases, starting shortly. So let's just see how it all unfolds before jumping to any conclusions about anything.