Opera 20 - Another unhappy loyal supporter

Deleted User

Deleted User

A Former User

Its wheels within wheels within wheels.

No. It's just wheels within wheels, or two clicks where one will do.

So I have 30 speed dials with four in one folder, and four in another, instead of 36 speed dials. That is not an improvement at all.

Someone else might have 30 speed dial folders with five in each folder instead of 150 small speed dials across three or four pages. Its still slow dial. This discussion was had before when people requested Speed Dial pages like some other browser, but its the same basic problem. Speed Dial gets slow once you have more than a certain number of slots, the same as bookmark folders get slow once you have too many bookmarks in one folder.

If someone want 100 + speed dials, they should be using bookmark folders instead — these also offer the choice of opening all bookmarks within a folder at once. KISS

Sessions, on the other hand (I wasn't talking about sessions in Speed Dial), store much more than just a set of tabs. They store the zoom level and scroll position in each, and which tab was active. They can also store tiled tabs. All this was lost with speed dial folders. It is a backward step, but you think it is a new feature.

lem729

lem729

Now, yes, you could do the same with bookmarks (as for the speed dial), but for important links it's not the same to me. I think of Marshall McCluhan, for those of us getting older, i.e., codgers: the medium is the message. The speed dial feels like a different medium. It's more immediate, visually pleasurable, easy to reach with the mouse. Awesome is in the eye of the beholder. And I do think that it is that. Definitely. It's pulled me back to desktop Opera, where before I was spending most of my browsing on tablets. It makes using desktop Opera for me a pleasure. And then I work a bit on giving the Speed Dial the super-perfect wallpaper background (some of it I hunt for on the internet). The Opera speed dial is head and shoulders above any other browser. Truly, it is not close for me!! If you don't like it or get it, I can see, @pesala, what your problem is with Opera 20. I mean, you don't like that super feature, so what are you left with -- "darkness, decay and the red death" or, let's say, ashes. Only being light there, Pesala. Or trying.

You might want to rethink how you would use the Speed Dial feature to make it enjoyable to you (obviously Opera 11 is you primary browser, but you play with both, 11 and Opera Next. I think one problem -- that led many astray -- is that Opera was originally touting the Speed Dial feature as the be all and end all of bookmarks (there would be no need for a bookmarks bookmarks bar: the Speed Dial and Stash were all you got). I would not at all like it for that -- a replacement for the bookmarks bar. I don't want 100 + speed dials. What a disgusting thought. For me, that would destroy the feature. I use bookmarks for the bulk of what I save. (You have 30 speed dials: I have 12, and the rest of the content for the moment is individual items -- 8 of them). I use speed dials inside the big speed dial, or individual items in the dial for what's important or special for me. I use bookmarks to duplicate some of that (if my mouse is near the bookmark toolbar, sometimes, I can hit the bookmark quicker than returning to the Speed Dial Page), but also the bookmarks bar is for the huge mass of little stuff, that I might like to go back to some day. No way would I want that type of trivia on the Speed Dial. I want the Speed Dial page to look great and be enjoyable.

Now I have an RSS feed, and Stumble Upon in one part of the speed dial, and I really like how Stumble Upon is changing from moment to moment. (Aside: I think the Opera extension store needs more live content). I have a speed dial folder for radio stations -- Pandora, Stumble Upon, Tunein, and a lot more. Another Speed dial folder is for video content. I use these a lot, so they are perfect in the dial. In a lot of my dials, I have 9 or 10 items. Part of the pleasure comes from how well you organize it. And how well the folders you select for the Speed Dial items are vital interests of yours.

I hear what you say on Sessions about storing the zoom level, but it's no big deal. It's so easy to adjust zoom in Opera. I use the 0 and the 9, and can do it almost instantly. Most sites I don't have to play with. A few I do. I think saving the zoom level per site is overkill. The same with storing the scroll position and active tab. Fine if it's simple to do and there's no cost. But nothing comes without a cost. On opening all bookmarks in a folder at the same time. Horrors. I wouldn't want to do it (it's not needed in the speed dial), and we can do it with the personal bookmarks bar. Just right click on the folder and click "open all." The feature is there.

DarthMordred

DarthMordred

@randyfletcher86 Be prepared to be disappointed. Opera 20 is a mere shadow of old Opera.

[English only in here please]

Deleted User

Deleted User

You know what I don't get? Admins closing posts like these. The end-users of your product are giving you feedback: that's a very valuable thing. And no, even a thread like "New opera sucks, you all suck" or some such isn't "trolling" it's feedback. Shutting that feedback down just 'cause it disagrees with the decision your company made is like putting a blindfold on.

Also, to all those "get used to the new browser" responses I've seen on the forum: that's not how things work. If a product is found to be sub-par, the majority of people aren't going to "get used to it", they'll just go with Chrome, Firefox, or whatever other product they find that better suits their needs. If every reason you used a particular browser is gone, why would you stay with it? Just for the name? Personally, I've almost switched to Chrome (was able to find most plugins to replicate the old Opera experience there). The only reason I've stayed w/ Opera 12.x for now is the bookmarks side bar. (speaking of, does anyone know a good similar bookmarks side bar plugin for Chrome? I haven't been able to find one, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'd love to switch to a newer browser for good.)

For people who don't know yet: there's a project going on that will attempt to replicate loved and lost features of Opera 12 in a new browser. Google "Otter browser". It's still under heavy development, though. But definitely something to watch out for in the future.

Deleted User

Deleted User

It's still under heavy development, though. But definitely something to watch out for in the future.

If by "heavy development" you mean that the solitary developer is burning the midnight oil to get this browser stable and out the door, I have to correct you on that. It takes a team, money and a great deal of time to develop a browser and by the time this one is ready for prime time, other alternative browsers will have moved on and be far beyond it.

blackbird71

blackbird71

@the_creature Half those users complaining about Blink Opera argue it's too Chrome-like. The other half claim they're at the brink of migrating to Chrome because they don't like Blink Opera, though it shares Chrome's DNA. You claim you've almost switched to Chrome because you're able to find plug-ins to replicate the "old Opera experience" - yet most Chrome plug-ins work in Blink Opera. If there's logic anywhere in all that, I've yet to detect it...

badbenho

badbenho

@the_creature Half those users complaining about Blink Opera argue it's too Chrome-like. The other half claim they're at the brink of migrating to Chrome because they don't like Blink Opera, though it shares Chrome's DNA. You claim you've almost switched to Chrome because you're able to find plug-ins to replicate the "old Opera experience" - yet most Chrome plug-ins work in Blink Opera. If there's logic anywhere in all that, I've yet to detect it...

Because if you have to use Chrome assets, you might as well just use Chrome, which is compatible with ALL Chrome extensions instead of just most. (It's honestly kind of embarrassing that new Opera has to rely on using extensions for a competing browser just to be able to simulate it's previous incarnation, but WHATEVER)

That, or just keep using 12.17 for most things and then switch over to Chrome when a website isn't compatible, which is what I do.

christoph142

christoph142

"New opera sucks, you all suck" or some such isn't "trolling" it's feedback.
Yes, most of the times it's exactly that: trolling. But every now and then there's some truth to it. That's why we're only closing new posts that duplicate the same topic. If you want to vent your frustration then go ahead and do so in one of the existing ones and not another one over and over again.
Cause that's disturbing for all those guys and girls actually seeking advice on real issues in here.

Shutting that feedback down just 'cause it disagrees with the decision your company made is like putting a blindfold on.
It's not "our company". AFAIK not a single moderator of this forum is working for Opera.
We're not putting blindfolds on, we're just trying to bridle the ranting pack.

A Former User

Because if you have to use Chrome assets, you might as well just use Chrome
But the new Chromium-based Opera still has a fair list of distinctive features and behaviors over Chrome so it's much easier to take it with its built-in functionality and add more on top with extensions than to take Chrome and do the same. A lot more extensions would be needed. Chromium-Opera is like "30% Presto-Opera" while Chrome is "5% Presto-Opera".

tntnt

tntnt

I "fixed" most of my issues with extensions from chrome...

But there is one that is driving me crazy and might be the thing that will make me change browser: no "open" option when clicking a downloadable file. I use it 10+ timer per hour in my line of work.
Zip files, rar files, small updates, small files... now I have to "save" them and then open it... makes no sense at all.

All I wanted was the browser to open the file, save it in a temporary location and then automatically delete it.

lem729

lem729

I think it has to download somewhere. Not ideal, but that's it.

So create a folder, have the downloads go there (You can set where you want the downloads to go). Do the deleting at the end of the day. Maybe delete the folder's contents, (if you have Windows, highlight the first item, shift highlight the last, and then -- all the items in the folder are now highlighted -- then delete). Ten seconds maybe. Of course, a fix could come by extension. I haven't looked in the extension places for this, or through a later Opra update. For the time being, though, look for a work around.

vashonr

vashonr

This is the second time giving Opera 20 a thorough use with the same results. The reasons that I used Opera so much was for built in mail, the right click menu's enter personal info feature, speed dial, change speed dial background wallpaper and such. I've strongly noticed that there is a huge decrease in user control of options in general. I'm stuck using both operas! I've LOVED opera until now. The only thing it offers me is a bit faster load times. OPERA LISTEN: Make it so your user never has to leave for another service and you will win but this opera 20 is a let down to your fans. The ones who used the services you had!

Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left ;)

christoph142

christoph142

there is one that is driving me crazy and might be the thing that will make me change browser: no "open" option
Just install Download Control

lem729

lem729

@vashonr

Opera 20 has a better speed dial. Have you created folders in it yet? Because each speed dial position can have a folder of sites, it's incredible the number of sites you can store for quick access -- far far more than with a traditional speed dial. The speed dial backgrounds in Opera 20 are still quite good. You can personalize it by using jpgs you've saved to your computer. if you find on the internet a jpg you like in Opera 20, you can right click on it, and make it Speed Dial background instantly. Your wallpaper can look awesome in Opera 20. You say there's a huge decrease in user control options. That's so general. Need more specifics to understand what you really want.

Just a few thoughts here. Opera 20 has access to a much wider range of extensions than Opera 12. Any extension in the Opera store or the Chrome store can be used in Opera. Many of Opera 20s user control options come via extension. What user control option do you miss so much? Maybe you can still get it? You can add a personal users choices in the right click menu with extensions. Do you know how to get extensions in the Opera and Chrome store. Getting Opera extensions is easy, but you can only use Chrome extensions if you download the Opera extension, called "Download Chrome Extension."

I understand your mail concern. I like that I can open web mail, like gmail and and Outlook mail in tabs in Opera 20. I used to use m2 when you could do that in Opera. And it was great.

samkook

samkook

By user option I would assume he meant any customization at all which opera 20 basically doesn't have any without having to use extensions and even then it seems pretty limited from what I've seen even though there's tons of them, but there's only so much you can do with them.

I almost didn't have to use any extentions before(only to fix the newer things they implemented without giving us the option to disable them like forcing the resizing of pictures), I just needed to edit a file here and there to add what I wanted(enabling the title bar with the new menu for example or adding translate this webpage to the right-click menu without having to install something made by another person for something so simple and having no way to tell what it really does in the background), or go in opera:config to toggle the many preferences to change the default behavior I didn't like.

Or simple things like choosing the default behavior for a certain file type when clicking on it, being able to open a link in a new tab and switch focus to it immediately, being able to set preferences options for specific websites, loading a custom css style for a specific website, having a status bar to know what's going on with the webpage or see a link before clicking it, being able to add or remove buttons to the UI, having a search engine box of our choice accessible at all times, having a title bar to know what the title of the webpage I'm visiting is and all the other stuff I can't think of right now or that I wasn't using personally.

About the new speed dial, I absolutely love and completely agree with Pesala's post about it from this thread:

I like speed dial, but speed dial with folders is just slow dial. Sessions were better

I'd replace sessions with stacking tabs, but sessions were also pretty useful for when opera would refuse to auto-restore the tabs after a crash, I always had a manually saved session for such an occasion.

lem729

lem729

@samkook

I agree with what you are saying, though i wouldn't say there's no customization in Opera 20 wihout extensions. There's less, though, for sure. With the Opera Presto browser, there wasn't much need for extensions, as you so rightly note. That's why I asked the poster -- who complained about the lack of customization (but in the abstract) -- what he wanted to do with the context menu. Anyone who complains in the abstract needs to be asked which feature they use and want. What are they worried about. They may not be worried about what you are.. This issue (as to what browser is best for a person) cannot be argued in the abstract. What's best for the poster cannot be looked at without knowing more from him, because there may be an extension, or a feature in opera 20 OF WHICH HE IS UNAWARE that meets his needs. I mean, I still hear people saying you cannot bookmark in Opera 20, though the assertion is beyond ludicrous. There's more bookmarking possibilities with Opera 20 than with Opera 12. Some people say you can't easily iin Opera 20 open links or bookmarks in new tabs. But it turns out that you can. You can even switch focus to it immediately. Easily. You can do a lot with search engines with Opera 20, and even more with extensions (that may well make it safer for browsing than it was before with Opera 12).

And one more modest thought. Beneath the surface, for many users, something else may well factor in, or should, perhaps, be thought about. Opera has made a decision to work on opera 20 (Blink), not on Opera 12 (Presto). Opera 12 development is frozen. (There's even a concern about how much in security updates for Opera 12 will be looked at by Opera or provided in the future). Opera 20 development is being heavily furthered through research and new releases.. Surely, a user, in factoring in all the pluses and minuses for his particular needs, will consider whether he'd rather browse with a product whose development is totally frozen, or with a product that is presently being heavily researched and developed. If the balance were relatively close, I know how I would come out on that. I'd rather use the product that has a clear development future.

I'm pretty sure I saw a Sessions extension in the Chrome store. Ahhhh, here it is, a Sessions Manager from the Chrome store. This may help you. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/session-manager/bbcnbpafconjjigibnhbfmmgdbbkcjfi

On the New Speed Dial, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think it's super.

lem729

lem729

@samkook
I agree with what you are saying, though i wouldn't say there's no customization in Opera 20 wihout extensions. There's less, though, for sure. With the Opera Presto browser, there wasn't much need for extensions, as you so rightly note. That's why I asked the poster -- who complained about the lack of customization (but in the abstract) -- what he wanted to do with the context menu. Anyone who complains in the abstract needs to be asked which feature they use and want. What are they worried about. They may not be worried about what you are.. This issue (as to what browser is best for a person) cannot be argued in the abstract. What's best for the poster cannot be looked at without knowing more from him, because there may be an extension, or a feature in opera 20 OF WHICH HE IS UNAWARE that meets his needs. I mean, I still hear people saying you cannot bookmark in Opera 20, though the assertion is beyond ludicrous. There's more bookmarking possibilities with Opera 20 than with Opera 12. Some people say you can't easily iin Opera 20 open links or bookmarks in new tabs. But it turns out that you can. You can even switch focus to it immediately. Easily. You can do a lot with search engines with Opera 20, and even more with extensions (that may well make it safer for browsing than it was before with Opera 12).
And one more modest thought. Beneath the surface, for many users, something else may well factor in, or should, perhaps, be thought about. Opera has made a decision to work on opera 20 (Blink), not on Opera 12 (Presto). Opera 12 development is frozen. (There's even a concern about how much in security updates for Opera 12 will be looked at by Opera or provided in the future). Opera 20 development is being heavily furthered through research and new releases.. Surely, a user, in factoring in all the pluses and minuses for his particular needs, will consider whether he'd rather browse with a product whose development is totally frozen, or with a product that is presently being heavily researched and developed.
If the balance were relatively close, I know how I would come out on that. I'd rather use the product that has a clear development future.

lem729

lem729

I agree with what you are saying, though i wouldn't say there's no customization in Opera 20 wihout extensions. There's less, though, for sure. With the Opera Presto browser, there wasn't much need for extensions, as you so rightly note. That's why I asked the poster -- who complained about the lack of customization (but in the abstract) -- what he wanted to do with the context menu. Anyone who complains in the abstract needs to be asked which feature they use and want. What are they worried about. They may not be worried about what you are.. This issue (as to what browser is best for a person) cannot be argued in the abstract. What's best for the poster cannot be looked at without knowing more from him, because there may be an extension, or a feature in opera 20 OF WHICH HE IS UNAWARE that meets his needs. I mean, I still hear people saying you cannot bookmark in Opera 20, though the assertion is beyond ludicrous. There's more bookmarking possibilities with Opera 20 than with Opera 12. Some people say you can't easily iin Opera 20 open links or bookmarks in new tabs. But it turns out that you can. You can even switch focus to it immediately. Easily. You can do a lot with search engines with Opera 20, and even more with extensions (that may well make it safer for browsing than it was before with Opera 12).
And one more modest thought. Beneath the surface, for many users, something else may well factor in, or should, perhaps, be thought about. Opera has made a decision to work on opera 20 (Blink), not on Opera 12 (Presto). Opera 12 development is frozen. (There's even a concern about how much in security updates for Opera 12 will be looked at by Opera or provided in the future). Opera 20 development is being heavily furthered through research and new releases.. Surely, a user, in factoring in all the pluses and minuses for his particular needs, will consider whether he'd rather browse with a product whose development is totally frozen, or with a product that is presently being heavily researched and developed.
If the balance were relatively close, I know how I would come out on that. I'd rather use the product that has a clear development future.

samkook

samkook

It's true that we need to know what each user really want since there may be a way to get it, but, personally, I think customization in the abstract is an actual feature.

Forget all the specific features I listed, the first thing I want in a web browser is the ability to set it up the way I want and find the most efficient. It's the reason I stuck with opera for all those years(since just before it became free, v3 I think it was) even though it always had the worst compatibility of all browsers with website since many of them even went as far as blocking it even though it worked fine. It's also the reason I'm still using v12 and will keep using it most likely until I have no choice but to stop even though I know the security is probably very lacking and many website I frequent do not work properly with it.

I simply want to have a choice in which features to activate or deactivate, whatever it may be or where to put it on the interface so it best suit my needs or how it should react when I do a specific action or being able to manipulate and store links however I prefer. Simply(well, I know it's really not that simple to achieve in real life) being able to do all that(and loading webpages properly) would make it my perfect browser, even with no other extra features.

Personally, I couldn't care less if it load webpages a couple of seconds faster or if it has a nicely looking interface, as long as I can use it in a way I'm comfortable with.

Edit: Yes, I saw the sessions extension too, I haven't installed it though because I don't need it for the very little usage of v20 I do since it doesn't meet my basic needs yet.

As for the new speed dial, it's not a bad thing at least, but it's not good either in my opinion so I do agree to disagree with you on that.

In a perfect world, I would also like to use the product with a development future, but since it's not usable enough for me, I simply can't, it's not even a choice.