Opera 20 - Another unhappy loyal supporter

christoph142

christoph142

"New opera sucks, you all suck" or some such isn't "trolling" it's feedback.
Yes, most of the times it's exactly that: trolling. But every now and then there's some truth to it. That's why we're only closing new posts that duplicate the same topic. If you want to vent your frustration then go ahead and do so in one of the existing ones and not another one over and over again.
Cause that's disturbing for all those guys and girls actually seeking advice on real issues in here.

Shutting that feedback down just 'cause it disagrees with the decision your company made is like putting a blindfold on.
It's not "our company". AFAIK not a single moderator of this forum is working for Opera.
We're not putting blindfolds on, we're just trying to bridle the ranting pack.

A Former User

Because if you have to use Chrome assets, you might as well just use Chrome
But the new Chromium-based Opera still has a fair list of distinctive features and behaviors over Chrome so it's much easier to take it with its built-in functionality and add more on top with extensions than to take Chrome and do the same. A lot more extensions would be needed. Chromium-Opera is like "30% Presto-Opera" while Chrome is "5% Presto-Opera".

tntnt

tntnt

I "fixed" most of my issues with extensions from chrome...

But there is one that is driving me crazy and might be the thing that will make me change browser: no "open" option when clicking a downloadable file. I use it 10+ timer per hour in my line of work.
Zip files, rar files, small updates, small files... now I have to "save" them and then open it... makes no sense at all.

All I wanted was the browser to open the file, save it in a temporary location and then automatically delete it.

lem729

lem729

I think it has to download somewhere. Not ideal, but that's it.

So create a folder, have the downloads go there (You can set where you want the downloads to go). Do the deleting at the end of the day. Maybe delete the folder's contents, (if you have Windows, highlight the first item, shift highlight the last, and then -- all the items in the folder are now highlighted -- then delete). Ten seconds maybe. Of course, a fix could come by extension. I haven't looked in the extension places for this, or through a later Opra update. For the time being, though, look for a work around.

vashonr

vashonr

This is the second time giving Opera 20 a thorough use with the same results. The reasons that I used Opera so much was for built in mail, the right click menu's enter personal info feature, speed dial, change speed dial background wallpaper and such. I've strongly noticed that there is a huge decrease in user control of options in general. I'm stuck using both operas! I've LOVED opera until now. The only thing it offers me is a bit faster load times. OPERA LISTEN: Make it so your user never has to leave for another service and you will win but this opera 20 is a let down to your fans. The ones who used the services you had!

Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left ;)

christoph142

christoph142

there is one that is driving me crazy and might be the thing that will make me change browser: no "open" option
Just install Download Control

lem729

lem729

@vashonr

Opera 20 has a better speed dial. Have you created folders in it yet? Because each speed dial position can have a folder of sites, it's incredible the number of sites you can store for quick access -- far far more than with a traditional speed dial. The speed dial backgrounds in Opera 20 are still quite good. You can personalize it by using jpgs you've saved to your computer. if you find on the internet a jpg you like in Opera 20, you can right click on it, and make it Speed Dial background instantly. Your wallpaper can look awesome in Opera 20. You say there's a huge decrease in user control options. That's so general. Need more specifics to understand what you really want.

Just a few thoughts here. Opera 20 has access to a much wider range of extensions than Opera 12. Any extension in the Opera store or the Chrome store can be used in Opera. Many of Opera 20s user control options come via extension. What user control option do you miss so much? Maybe you can still get it? You can add a personal users choices in the right click menu with extensions. Do you know how to get extensions in the Opera and Chrome store. Getting Opera extensions is easy, but you can only use Chrome extensions if you download the Opera extension, called "Download Chrome Extension."

I understand your mail concern. I like that I can open web mail, like gmail and and Outlook mail in tabs in Opera 20. I used to use m2 when you could do that in Opera. And it was great.

samkook

samkook

By user option I would assume he meant any customization at all which opera 20 basically doesn't have any without having to use extensions and even then it seems pretty limited from what I've seen even though there's tons of them, but there's only so much you can do with them.

I almost didn't have to use any extentions before(only to fix the newer things they implemented without giving us the option to disable them like forcing the resizing of pictures), I just needed to edit a file here and there to add what I wanted(enabling the title bar with the new menu for example or adding translate this webpage to the right-click menu without having to install something made by another person for something so simple and having no way to tell what it really does in the background), or go in opera:config to toggle the many preferences to change the default behavior I didn't like.

Or simple things like choosing the default behavior for a certain file type when clicking on it, being able to open a link in a new tab and switch focus to it immediately, being able to set preferences options for specific websites, loading a custom css style for a specific website, having a status bar to know what's going on with the webpage or see a link before clicking it, being able to add or remove buttons to the UI, having a search engine box of our choice accessible at all times, having a title bar to know what the title of the webpage I'm visiting is and all the other stuff I can't think of right now or that I wasn't using personally.

About the new speed dial, I absolutely love and completely agree with Pesala's post about it from this thread:

I like speed dial, but speed dial with folders is just slow dial. Sessions were better

I'd replace sessions with stacking tabs, but sessions were also pretty useful for when opera would refuse to auto-restore the tabs after a crash, I always had a manually saved session for such an occasion.

lem729

lem729

@samkook

I agree with what you are saying, though i wouldn't say there's no customization in Opera 20 wihout extensions. There's less, though, for sure. With the Opera Presto browser, there wasn't much need for extensions, as you so rightly note. That's why I asked the poster -- who complained about the lack of customization (but in the abstract) -- what he wanted to do with the context menu. Anyone who complains in the abstract needs to be asked which feature they use and want. What are they worried about. They may not be worried about what you are.. This issue (as to what browser is best for a person) cannot be argued in the abstract. What's best for the poster cannot be looked at without knowing more from him, because there may be an extension, or a feature in opera 20 OF WHICH HE IS UNAWARE that meets his needs. I mean, I still hear people saying you cannot bookmark in Opera 20, though the assertion is beyond ludicrous. There's more bookmarking possibilities with Opera 20 than with Opera 12. Some people say you can't easily iin Opera 20 open links or bookmarks in new tabs. But it turns out that you can. You can even switch focus to it immediately. Easily. You can do a lot with search engines with Opera 20, and even more with extensions (that may well make it safer for browsing than it was before with Opera 12).

And one more modest thought. Beneath the surface, for many users, something else may well factor in, or should, perhaps, be thought about. Opera has made a decision to work on opera 20 (Blink), not on Opera 12 (Presto). Opera 12 development is frozen. (There's even a concern about how much in security updates for Opera 12 will be looked at by Opera or provided in the future). Opera 20 development is being heavily furthered through research and new releases.. Surely, a user, in factoring in all the pluses and minuses for his particular needs, will consider whether he'd rather browse with a product whose development is totally frozen, or with a product that is presently being heavily researched and developed. If the balance were relatively close, I know how I would come out on that. I'd rather use the product that has a clear development future.

I'm pretty sure I saw a Sessions extension in the Chrome store. Ahhhh, here it is, a Sessions Manager from the Chrome store. This may help you. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/session-manager/bbcnbpafconjjigibnhbfmmgdbbkcjfi

On the New Speed Dial, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think it's super.

lem729

lem729

@samkook
I agree with what you are saying, though i wouldn't say there's no customization in Opera 20 wihout extensions. There's less, though, for sure. With the Opera Presto browser, there wasn't much need for extensions, as you so rightly note. That's why I asked the poster -- who complained about the lack of customization (but in the abstract) -- what he wanted to do with the context menu. Anyone who complains in the abstract needs to be asked which feature they use and want. What are they worried about. They may not be worried about what you are.. This issue (as to what browser is best for a person) cannot be argued in the abstract. What's best for the poster cannot be looked at without knowing more from him, because there may be an extension, or a feature in opera 20 OF WHICH HE IS UNAWARE that meets his needs. I mean, I still hear people saying you cannot bookmark in Opera 20, though the assertion is beyond ludicrous. There's more bookmarking possibilities with Opera 20 than with Opera 12. Some people say you can't easily iin Opera 20 open links or bookmarks in new tabs. But it turns out that you can. You can even switch focus to it immediately. Easily. You can do a lot with search engines with Opera 20, and even more with extensions (that may well make it safer for browsing than it was before with Opera 12).
And one more modest thought. Beneath the surface, for many users, something else may well factor in, or should, perhaps, be thought about. Opera has made a decision to work on opera 20 (Blink), not on Opera 12 (Presto). Opera 12 development is frozen. (There's even a concern about how much in security updates for Opera 12 will be looked at by Opera or provided in the future). Opera 20 development is being heavily furthered through research and new releases.. Surely, a user, in factoring in all the pluses and minuses for his particular needs, will consider whether he'd rather browse with a product whose development is totally frozen, or with a product that is presently being heavily researched and developed.
If the balance were relatively close, I know how I would come out on that. I'd rather use the product that has a clear development future.

lem729

lem729

I agree with what you are saying, though i wouldn't say there's no customization in Opera 20 wihout extensions. There's less, though, for sure. With the Opera Presto browser, there wasn't much need for extensions, as you so rightly note. That's why I asked the poster -- who complained about the lack of customization (but in the abstract) -- what he wanted to do with the context menu. Anyone who complains in the abstract needs to be asked which feature they use and want. What are they worried about. They may not be worried about what you are.. This issue (as to what browser is best for a person) cannot be argued in the abstract. What's best for the poster cannot be looked at without knowing more from him, because there may be an extension, or a feature in opera 20 OF WHICH HE IS UNAWARE that meets his needs. I mean, I still hear people saying you cannot bookmark in Opera 20, though the assertion is beyond ludicrous. There's more bookmarking possibilities with Opera 20 than with Opera 12. Some people say you can't easily iin Opera 20 open links or bookmarks in new tabs. But it turns out that you can. You can even switch focus to it immediately. Easily. You can do a lot with search engines with Opera 20, and even more with extensions (that may well make it safer for browsing than it was before with Opera 12).
And one more modest thought. Beneath the surface, for many users, something else may well factor in, or should, perhaps, be thought about. Opera has made a decision to work on opera 20 (Blink), not on Opera 12 (Presto). Opera 12 development is frozen. (There's even a concern about how much in security updates for Opera 12 will be looked at by Opera or provided in the future). Opera 20 development is being heavily furthered through research and new releases.. Surely, a user, in factoring in all the pluses and minuses for his particular needs, will consider whether he'd rather browse with a product whose development is totally frozen, or with a product that is presently being heavily researched and developed.
If the balance were relatively close, I know how I would come out on that. I'd rather use the product that has a clear development future.

samkook

samkook

It's true that we need to know what each user really want since there may be a way to get it, but, personally, I think customization in the abstract is an actual feature.

Forget all the specific features I listed, the first thing I want in a web browser is the ability to set it up the way I want and find the most efficient. It's the reason I stuck with opera for all those years(since just before it became free, v3 I think it was) even though it always had the worst compatibility of all browsers with website since many of them even went as far as blocking it even though it worked fine. It's also the reason I'm still using v12 and will keep using it most likely until I have no choice but to stop even though I know the security is probably very lacking and many website I frequent do not work properly with it.

I simply want to have a choice in which features to activate or deactivate, whatever it may be or where to put it on the interface so it best suit my needs or how it should react when I do a specific action or being able to manipulate and store links however I prefer. Simply(well, I know it's really not that simple to achieve in real life) being able to do all that(and loading webpages properly) would make it my perfect browser, even with no other extra features.

Personally, I couldn't care less if it load webpages a couple of seconds faster or if it has a nicely looking interface, as long as I can use it in a way I'm comfortable with.

Edit: Yes, I saw the sessions extension too, I haven't installed it though because I don't need it for the very little usage of v20 I do since it doesn't meet my basic needs yet.

As for the new speed dial, it's not a bad thing at least, but it's not good either in my opinion so I do agree to disagree with you on that.

In a perfect world, I would also like to use the product with a development future, but since it's not usable enough for me, I simply can't, it's not even a choice.

lem729

lem729

Here's a Sessions Manager for you for Opera 20. I added it to my earlier post, but you may not notice that.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/session-manager/bbcnbpafconjjigibnhbfmmgdbbkcjfi

It may be that Opera 12 is best for you. If so, then no need to change. I think probably most of what you want would carry over well to Opera 20. There's far more ability to store links in Opera 20 than in Opera 12.. Plus, it would be a lot safer (the browsing, the security updates, the extensions out there to protect the privacy of searches, etc). As for the interface, there's tons that can be done via extension. But you have to do the work of the looking and testing for you. Most people don't want to change from what they are comfortable. And it's not unreasonable -- if you are happy with Opera 12 -- to stay with it (and not worry about looking for extensions (smile) even if the browser is not being developed. Personally, I enjoy the extension stores.

samkook

samkook

I did notice it, I also edited my previous one to reflect that.

It's true that there is tons that can be done with extensions, but, as you're aware from the thread I started yesterday, even by doing the research, I couldn't even do the 3 basic things I need for simple usage of the browser(I'm crossing my fingers with v21 for one of them though) so there's pretty much no point in trying to find a fix for all the less important stuff.

Storing links is indeed better in v20 with extensions, but I haven't found anything satisfying enough to "store" the open ones(tabs) which is the most important thing.

I'm fully open to change which is why I keep using(even though it's limited) v20 on my HTPC and come back to the forum once in a while to see if there's a way to do what I need, but I haven't had any luck so far. I tried many different way to group tabs when I tried to switch to firefox since I didn't want to be stuck with a dead browser, but I found nothing that worked well enough, even after trying them for a few days.

I'm not very happy with v12, it's been declining in quality and features(a lot were added that made things worse, without any way to disable them) since somewhere in v9 in my opinion(except for the speed dial that came with v10 which forced me to update anyway), but it's still, sadly, the best option I've found.

The security is worrying me which is why I've beefed up my router by adding an antivirus and some filtering directly to it, but, as I said, v20 is simply too early in its development for the usage I need so I don't have much of a choice. It's either take longer to do stuff and hate the way it behaves most of the time and be more secure or continue to use a work flow I'm comfortable with and be careful about the websites I visit.

lem729

lem729

Check the other thread. I found a way to get the Control Z feature (to undo a closed tab) in Opera 20. My friend, everything is there if one just looks. :))))

I'm disappointed about the Sessions Manager extension. I thought it looked perfect for your needs, but I understand what you're saying. You don't want to focus on it in Opera 20 till you solve the rest of your problems. Still, I found you Control Z AND a Sessions Manager. I'm tired tonight. I surrender. But remember the motto: it's all there for those who look.

samkook

samkook

I just replied on that other thread and it would seem that I'm back to square one with 4 problems instead of 3 if I start using extensions.

You've been very helpful though and I very much appreciate all of your efforts so far and don't want you to be discouraged, but it's been looking worse since I started looking closer at it since I now have problems I didn't know I had before.

lem729

lem729

No you're not dead. I posted in that other thread that you can eliminate the automatic chrome updates. Piece of cake.

samkook

samkook

Yeah, I just saw, things are looking up once again, thanks a lot for this.

Edit: looks like I thanked you too fast since it doesn't actually work for opera, only for chrome so I'm taking back my lots of thanks and only giving you a normal thanks for the trouble I'm giving you :p

sigza

sigza

It's true that we need to know what each user really want since there may be a way to get it, but, personally, I think customization in the abstract is an actual feature.
Forget all the specific features I listed, the first thing I want in a web browser is the ability to set it up the way I want and find the most efficient. It's the reason I stuck with opera for all those years(since just before it became free, v3 I think it was) even though it always had the worst compatibility of all browsers with website since many of them even went as far as blocking it even though it worked fine. It's also the reason I'm still using v12 and will keep using it most likely until I have no choice but to stop even though I know the security is probably very lacking and many website I frequent do not work properly with it.
I simply want to have a choice in which features to activate or deactivate, whatever it may be or where to put it on the interface so it best suit my needs or how it should react when I do a specific action or being able to manipulate and store links however I prefer. Simply(well, I know it's really not that simple to achieve in real life) being able to do all that(and loading webpages properly) would make it my perfect browser, even with no other extra features.
Personally, I couldn't care less if it load webpages a couple of seconds faster or if it has a nicely looking interface, as long as I can use it in a way I'm comfortable with.
Edit: Yes, I saw the sessions extension too, I haven't installed it though because I don't need it for the very little usage of v20 I do since it doesn't meet my basic needs yet.
As for the new speed dial, it's not a bad thing at least, but it's not good either in my opinion so I do agree to disagree with you on that.
In a perfect world, I would also like to use the product with a development future, but since it's not usable enough for me, I simply can't, it's not even a choice.

+1
Especially the comments about choice and speed.

sesquipedalian

sesquipedalian

I'll add my voice to the chronicle of failure that is ver 15+ as well. No menus, no bookmarks, no preferences, forced SpeedDial (of which I'm not a fan), seemingly no provision for changing (or even setting-up) the homepage. If I wanted my computer to be a phone I wouldn't have bought a computer. And to add another insult to the situation, it appears they've moved ver 12 downloads to a server from 1999 (20k/s? Really?). Or maybe there are just so many people downloading the old version that the server is overloaded. Right.

Opera used to be a trend-setter which everyone else tried to copy - now they seem to be taking other people's bad ideas and making them worse. I would (and do) use early ver 12 above any other browser on the market because of customization and efficiency. But the newer versions? FF's bookmarks may be a mess, but at least they work. I honestly don't understand why someone would intentionally take a good, useful piece of software and make it less useful than the products with which they're trying to compete. They even somehow managed to make it worse than Chrome, which is really saying something. So I guess that's that - the end of an era. I'd held out hope that they'd eventually come to their senses and start producing a useable piece of software again but I'm giving up. I'll use 12 until it'll no longer handle whatever horrors are planned for future HTML revisions, but after that it looks like Firefox unless someone else steps in. I guess this is what happens when you grasp desperately for market share at the expense of logic and sanity (and actual users), and it has to stop somewhere.