Why has Opera 17 become Chorme/Firefox?
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funksoulbro last edited by
Originally posted by LeoCG:
And who can say for sure that they were not right?
They obviously don't think they were right as it's one of the first things they did a u-turn on, as after complaints they promised to bring back proper bookmarks. For someone who only visits Facebook, Google and one or two other sites, it's fine. For people who have dozens - or even hundreds - of bookmarks, having to use the speed dial sucks and is obviously inferior to having a menu that's accessible from a button on the toolbar.
Besides that though, making a product look clean and easy to use does not mean that you have to dumb it down and strip out all of the features that differentiated it from other browsers. The reason I have a home page is because I visit that page a lot, therefore I want a home button. Now I have to press the "Start Page" button and then click on the thumbnail for my home page. In Opera 12.16 I have a custom button in the main toolbar that gives me a home button with a drop-down list for bookmarks, so it's one click to go to my home page and one click to view all of my bookmarks folders. Speed dial is fine for the few sites I visit the most. There's a reason why I don't have a massive speed dial in Opera 12.16 with dozens of sites in it.
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twozero3 last edited by
Dumbing it down to cater for the lowest common denominator, is not progress. It is an approach that ultimately stifles and slows down development and it is not what got us where we are right now.
Alienating and turning your back on a generation of sophisticated Opera Browser users to satisfy an unknown element of basic internet users who may as well just use Chrome in the first place and probably will due to it's higher profile, will not be good for Opera in the long term
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leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by
Originally posted by funksoulbro:
They obviously don't think they were right as it's one of the first things they did a u-turn on, as after complaints they promised to bring back proper bookmarks.
It doesn't mean that they weren't right. Sometimes is better to take a step back and "agree" with the other than keep feeding an endless discussion.
Originally posted by funksoulbro:
For people who have dozens - or even hundreds - of bookmarks, having to use the speed dial sucks and is obviously inferior to having a menu that's accessible from a button on the toolbar.
The ones that have hundreds of bookmarks probably don't use 90% of them very often.
Imho bookmarks are a very outdated and less useful feature because, among other reasons, they demand spending time organazing them, deciding if belongs to a or b or both, etc. And, in the final, you use them once or twice.
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kidxrated last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
Originally posted by originalxform:
Why has Opera 17 become Chorme/Firefox?
It hasn't. Please don't post disinformation.
Read how to use the Bookmark Importer and how to enable the Quick Access Bar.
Reopening a closed tab is a different action to undo text editing, so using a different shortcut is logical.
Opera is using the chrome engine so there for runs like chrome I don't know if all the google spying stuff is there but all in all, if it's using the chrome engine, then its a variant of chrome what makes opera different from torch?
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by kidxrated:
what makes opera different from torch?
Lot's of vehicles use BMW engines but that doesn't make them BMW clones. Opera will evolve in it's own direction, and they will do their own development work on the Blink rendering engine.
The Vision Behind Opera 15 and Beyond
Nor are we cloning Opera 12, or any other browser. We will continue to innovate to build the best browser.
I assume that browsers using the same rendering engine will have similar site problems, and benchmark performance. That's about as far as the similarity goes.
My PeaceKeeper Results
Opera 17.0.1241.45 scored 4091 and 5/7
SRWare Chrome Iron Version 30.0.1650.0 scored 3997 and 5/7
Opera 12.16 build 1860 scored 3303 and 4/7
Opera 11.64 build 1403 scored 3052 and 4/7
Firefox 25.0 scored 2275 and 7/7 -
kidxrated last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
Originally posted by kidxrated:
what makes opera different from torch?
Lot's of vehicles use BMW engines but that doesn't make them BMW clones. Opera will evolve in it's own direction, and they will do their own development work on the Blink rendering engine.
The Vision Behind Opera 15 and Beyond
Nor are we cloning Opera 12, or any other browser. We will continue to innovate to build the best browser.
I assume that browsers using the same rendering engine will have similar site problems, and benchmark performance. That's about as far as the similarity goes.
My PeaceKeeper Results
Opera 17.0.1241.45 scored 4091 and 5/7
SRWare Chrome Iron Version 30.0.1650.0 scored 3997 and 5/7
Opera 12.16 build 1860 scored 3303 and 4/7
Opera 11.64 build 1403 scored 3052 and 4/7
Firefox 25.0 scored 2275 and 7/7What's a variant of chrome have to do with a clone I never said it was a clone, but it is a variant of chrome?
In memory of Geir Ivarsøy. Copyright
1995-2013 Opera Software ASA. All rights reserved.
Made possible by the Chromium open source project and other open source software.
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originalxform last edited by
Originally posted by LeoCG:
Imho bookmarks are a very outdated and less useful feature because, among other reasons, they demand spending time organazing them, deciding if belongs to a or b or both, etc. And, in the final, you use them once or twice.
I really dont know what's so outdated about bookmarks? Do you mean that people dont need to save addresses any longer? I , sadly, HAD a great collection of bookmarks and used them often and had no problem organizing them. So just because the basic users only visit a handful of popular sites I shouldnt be able to save as many sites as I want to visit at a later time?
I really need my bookmarks but there are far too many to have on speed dial or the QAB, and I only saved the .adr file so I cant even import them without reinstalling Opera 12.16 and exporting them.Opera Dev-team, are you just ignoring your old user base in the hunt for growth and simplicity?
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leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by
Originally posted by originalxform:
I really dont know what's so outdated about bookmarks? Do you mean that people dont need to save addresses any longer?
Well, majority of people uses (or used) bookmarks as a shortcuts for their (half a dozen) favorites pages. Nowadays with autocomplete, Speed Dial, QAB, Stash and so on, i don't think most people needs to keepe saving and sorting (too many) pages.
Originally posted by originalxform:
So just because the basic users only visit a handful of popular sites I shouldnt be able to save as many sites as I want to visit at a later time?
I'm saying that you shoudn't need to do that. You should be able to just "mark" the page and then be able to find it by its content without having to organize anything, without, i.e., having to keep three ou four entries of the same page just because it belongs to three or four different categories.
Even better, just visiting the page would already make it searchble like in Opera 12.16
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twozero3 last edited by
Some people use bookmarks (I do) some people don't.
There is no intelligent rationale for the total removal of bookmark functionality from a good internet browser.
For those that don't use bookmarks, what do you gain by bookmark functionality not being present in a browser? Nothing! The use of bookmark functionality is not compulsory and is unobtrusive. Those that use bookmarks instantly lose a lot of functionality in their browser.
Removing bookmarks from a browser is pointless. Those that don't use bookmarks, gain nothing and those that do, lose something.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by 203:
Removing bookmarks from a browser is pointless.
They were not "removed." Opera 17 is a new browser, and a bookmark menu was not added back yet. The Bookmarks Bar, now called the Quick Access Bar is already available in Opera 17. Please search to find out how to enable it and import your bookmarks. I guess that a menu and a bookmarks manager tab will return later. I don't expect to see panels any time soon.
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funksoulbro last edited by
Originally posted by LeoCG:
Imho bookmarks are a very outdated and less useful feature because, among other reasons, they demand spending time organazing them, deciding if belongs to a or b or both, etc. And, in the final, you use them once or twice.
It takes me next to no time to organise them. When I add a bookmark, I choose which folder to save it in and that's it - job done.
Now if you gave me 1,000 bookmarks that were unsorted, sure, it would take me a long time to go through them and put them in folders, but that's not how it works.
What do you propose as an alternative to bookmarks? Speed dial? With that you are expected to create groups of dials inside a single dial, i.e. it's no different to using folders other than being less convenient to use. Either that or you have potentially hundreds of dials on one page - that's not good either. Perhaps Microsoft should replace folders in Windows with giant "dials" and replace the regular file name view with a huge icon - that would make it easier for people to use File Explorer, right? Erm... no.
The point of speed dial is that you put your most visited sites on it for quick access, just like you would put your favourite contacts on speed dial on your phone. Or maybe a smartphone should dump the contact list and have massive dial images for each contact as well, yeah? Again.... no.
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A Former User last edited by
I don't think bookmarks are outdated yet — I have accumulated 1,500 in about 11 years of browsing with Opera. There's probably a 100 or so that our broken or that I will never use again, but not too may as I prune them now and again. (AM Deadlink is useful).
I use Quick find in the Bookmarks panel to locate those I haven't used for ages, and there's a good number like this that I use at least once a week, so I know where to find them without searching, but I don't use them often enough to want them in speed dial or on the Bookmarks Bar.
I could manage without them by using Google search every time for lesser used bookmarks and speed dial only for frequently used ones.History could also be used a lot more than it is — I often revisit the same site in successive days. In Opera 17, that's a viable alternative for many cases.
I currently have 30 speed dial slots.
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cogitosum last edited by
Originally posted by originalxform:
I recently installed Opera 17 and everything good about Opera is changed.
Why do you have to change undo from ctrl+z to the backwards shift+t? Undo is universally ctrl+z!
You've taken away the email client so I have to install another program and have even more icons on the Windows bar.
You've taken away bookmarks!? And I cant even import them back since the importer is grayed out!
You've even changed where in the right menu copy is, and I can no longer dubble click next to a tab to get a new tab..
A lot of things that I thought was great with Opera, gone! In one version update.. Why not quit and join the other browser companies, you are almost them anyway.
Sorry for all the negativity.
Hear hear to the above. I especially miss having a bookmark panel. Your speed dial is altogether too clutzy and a nuisance as a way of searching for a bookmark. Additionally, I've lost the ability to view EXIF information by clicking on an image. I can make Firefox or Chrome look "more like" Opera 12.xx so that's where I'll probably go. Sorry gents. Oh, and Opera no longer fills in name address etc.
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bomkallo last edited by
Hello guys,
as it is my first post so i say hello.
Firstable I'd like to mention I won't create another topic for useless information that is that written now.
I simply wanted to inform that I won't be a fun of new Opera anymore
When by an accident I've updated from 12 to 17 I was crushed by no dragonfly at first, then by useless, poor option manager. I don't know why everyone moan about bookmarks, etc, but from the sight of a developer I used to play with opera for its own personality. Sorry, but one Chrome is out there and I don't need another one for my tasks.
I barely believe that someone from its idiot company will realise that they wasted all the things in the name of unknown future.I'd like to take place at those who are not new-engine-believers, because it's simply not an Opera as it used to be.
So if any of that crapyards read this, you might get my real sign that I won't use new version when the old one will be too old to keep pace.Farewell:)
PS: Must be noted that it can't be foreseen how it's going to look in future, but still, there is chrome sign on it:)
PS2: The one answer for majority of questions here is that opera is no lonber using opera engine. It's the same when you've rewritten any program into new framework, loosing all its features by the name of new ones. The trick is someone didn't count that some people are deep in it so far, that they will need some time to change browser at least custimizable to achieve the same effect. -
funksoulbro last edited by
Thankfully, there's plenty of people signing up to say how much they love the new Opera, to offset all the posts like the one above.
Oh wait - no, there's not.
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Deleted User last edited by
Linus Torvalds: This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it.
Replace "Gnome" with "Chropera" and you 'll get the new VISION and direction of the devs...
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by funksoulbro:
Thankfully, there's plenty of people signing up to say how much they love the new Opera, to offset all the posts like the one above.
Oh wait - no, there's not.
What goes on here is relatively unimportant... little more than a drop in the bucket. In general, only those folks who have problems are likely to sign up in a forum to register their complaints. Thus we see a myriad of one-time posters who have had Opera for several years, never bothered to register a single post and now sign up to post their disapproval. That tells me there are far, far more Opera users who are content to either remain with an older version OR go with the new version. Ergo, your comment is relatively meaningless.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by fg750:
Linus Torvalds: This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it.
Replace "Gnome" with "Chropera" and you 'll get the new VISION and direction of the devs...
There is no Chropera. Oh... I see...you're trying to be sarcastic. Ah... now I get it. :whistle:
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blackbird71 last edited byOriginally posted by leushino:
... What goes on here is relatively unimportant... little more than a drop in the bucket. In general, only those folks who have problems are likely to sign up in a forum to register their complaints. Thus we see a myriad of one-time posters who have had Opera for several years, never bothered to register a single post and now sign up to post their disapproval. That tells me there are far, far more Opera users who are content to either remain with an older version OR go with the new version. Ergo, your comment is relatively meaningless.
Or... since most folks initially post here mainly to either get answers to an Opera problem/question or raise a complaint, a "myriad of one-time posters" complaining more likely may represent an initial wave of 'ordinary' users experiencing "sticker shock" at their first encounter with the new Opera. If there are only, say, 1-in-X,000 users who typically ever post here, any kind of clearly visible upsurge of first-posting-user complaints - particularly a "myriad" - represents a significant upturn in background user discontent with the newer Opera versions. I don't see how one can read it any other way, and certainly not as any positive sign that there are far, far "more contented Opera users" (than there were before).
Put another way, if there's a visible upsurge in negative feedback (regardless of its nature), ignore it at your own peril. I think most ordinary users who are unsatisfied won't bother to register here and complain... they'll just quietly move away.
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Deleted User last edited by
Or put yet another way - it's anybody's guess. The thing is... how do you choose to interpret it? I see things from a positive perspective.
