Duplicate Opera installation?
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hucker last edited by huckerI've somehow ended up with two Operas. Both are up to date and seem to have the same settings (all my start page icons for example). I noticed this when two Operas appeared in most recently used in the start menu. One is "C:\Program Files\Opera\launcher.exe" the other is "C:\Users\peter\AppData\Local\Programs\Opera\launcher.exe"
What's going on? Why is there a program in appdata which is for settings only?
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blackbird71 last edited by blackbird71@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
... I don't understand why they share the same settings though.
Perhaps because the 'all users' installation places individual sets of settings under each of the various user accounts under Users/<username>/AppData/, and if you have (or are using) only one user account, both of your installations' settings files went into the same place for that account - in other words, constitute and are the same ones in that account.
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blackbird71 last edited by
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
@blackbird71 What is the purpose of having it only for one user?
Because some computers are used by multiple users, each with their own user account. Those users may have different preferences regarding application programs, with some users not wanting (or skilled in using) certain apps... so those apps only need be installed for their appropriate users. User accounts in Windows are designed to compartmentalize usage between users, offering better customization potential and greater privacy from one another.
Even single users of computers may use multiple accounts on them to compartmentalize software file access in different ways, and not installing certain apps into certain accounts is one of the ways.
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hucker last edited by
@blackbird71 said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
@blackbird71 What is the purpose of having it only for one user?
Because some computers are used by multiple users, each with their own user account. Those users may have different preferences regarding application programs, with some users not wanting (or skilled in using) certain apps... so those apps only need be installed for their appropriate users. User accounts in Windows are designed to compartmentalize usage between users, offering better customization potential and greater privacy from one another.
Even single users of computers may use multiple accounts on them to compartmentalize software file access in different ways, and not installing certain apps into certain accounts is one of the ways.
But that's already taken care of as the settings are in the appdata folder. There's no need to hide the software in there, unless you're trying to forbid another person from opening Opera?! Just because it's installed they don't have to use it.
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blackbird71 last edited by
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
... unless you're trying to forbid another person from opening Opera?! Just because it's installed they don't have to use it.
Blocking may be exactly what one is trying to do. There may be users of some computers who are not authorized to take that system out onto the public Internet. With a 'limited' user account and no browsers installed/accessible by that account, preventing that is fairly easy and effective to achieve.
In my case, I use a certain limited user account to occasionally access some very sensitive files and which has only one browser installed that can go out onto the Internet... that one (which happens not to be Opera) is extremely "locked down" via security tools, both internal and external, to allow access only to certain 'secure' sites. No other browsers are even accessible from within that account.
In various threads here, you've argued in favor of choice (by lamenting its increasing disappearance of late)... this is simply one very useful way of choosing how to install a browser, based on one's specific needs. Sometimes certain choices can be confusing to some users, and that is one reason some developers may tend to oversimplify their products by removing choices.
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donq last edited by
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
... There's no need to hide the software in there, unless you're trying to forbid another person from opening Opera?! Just because it's installed they don't have to use it.
One major reason to install software into Appdata folder is limited users inability to install into normal (programfiles) folder. Non-administrative users can't install anything into programfiles, but they can install things into Appdata... Chrome started (or more likely it was first major application with) this stupidity and Microsoft does not care.
If Chrome would require admin approval to install in all limited corporate computers, then most likely it would not have been that widespread. -
hucker last edited by
@blackbird71 said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
In my case, I use a certain limited user account to occasionally access some very sensitive files and which has only one browser installed that can go out onto the Internet... that one (which happens not to be Opera) is extremely "locked down" via security tools, both internal and external, to allow access only to certain 'secure' sites. No other browsers are even accessible from within that account.
Surely you trust yourself?
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hucker last edited by
@donq said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
One major reason to install software into Appdata folder is limited users inability to install into normal (programfiles) folder. Non-administrative users can't install anything into programfiles,
That cannot be true. A lot of Windows users are not admin on their own computer, yet they install software into program files in the normal way.
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blackbird71 last edited by
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
@blackbird71 said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
In my case, I use a certain limited user account to occasionally access some very sensitive files and which has only one browser installed that can go out onto the Internet... that one (which happens not to be Opera) is extremely "locked down" via security tools, both internal and external, to allow access only to certain 'secure' sites. No other browsers are even accessible from within that account.
Surely you trust yourself?
What I don't trust are websites that all too often contain scripted callouts to other sites (which, in turn, could contain malware that might compromise files within that account). As a result, I block anything from being accessed in that user account and its browser other than a very few specific sites themselves. The sites I may need to access are used for reference with regard to updating my sensitive files. YMMV.
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hucker last edited by
@blackbird71 If a website can do that, your browser has a monumental security flaw and you oughta change browser.
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blackbird71 last edited by
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
@blackbird71 If a website can do that, your browser has a monumental security flaw and you oughta change browser.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. "Drive-by" infections are as old as browser vulnerabilities themselves... and as new as many of the chromium updates that are issued every few weeks by the Chromium Project. The site you visit may seem safe with regard to its own code, but the rented-out adspace it hosts for some rotating ad server can be a whole different ballgame... they have long been favorite targets for zero-day browser exploits. For some things, it just makes no sense to take chances.
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hucker last edited by
@blackbird71 They're not just security holes, they're stupidly written browsers. Running code without your permission is monumentally absurd.
PSST, get an AV program.
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blackbird71 last edited by
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
@blackbird71 They're not just security holes, they're stupidly written browsers. Running code without your permission is monumentally absurd.
PSST, get an AV program.
That's the nature of "vulnerabilities": they're security holes of which the developers weren't (usually) aware, else they wouldn't have issued the code in the first place. A zero-day exploit is simply an exploit that's deployed 'in the wild' before a vulnerability has become generally known. Depending on where the vulnerability exists, it may or may not be primarily a browser issue... it may be a flaw in JavaScript itself, in the chromium/Blink engine, in the browser layer sitting upon the engine, in an extension attached to the browser, in the host OS, or even in some system module being invoked by the browser when directed by a site's code.
Most users (myself included) use an AV, but an antivirus is not the end-all protection against threats, particularly when "it really matters". Many 'zero-days' are just that: not recognized by an AV until an update eventually is issued to it.
Security is a layered process, and the best security is a many-layered process... just one of which is to keep a browser tightly locked down, especially when it really matters; another of which is to employ limited user accounts to compartmentalize data access; still another is to keep any admin account very tightly controlled regarding its online exposure.
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hucker last edited by leocg
@blackbird71 AV has always done me well. You have to visit a lot of dodgy porn sites to get anything bad.
And as I said, there should not be any ability to run any code through a browser. Code belongs in an exe file on your own computer.
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donq last edited by
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
@donq said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
One major reason to install software into Appdata folder is limited users inability to install into normal (programfiles) folder. Non-administrative users can't install anything into programfiles,
That cannot be true. A lot of Windows users are not admin on their own computer, yet they install software into program files in the normal way.
Actually not. Most home users have in fact enough privileges and can install into programfiles after accepting UAC prompt, but in controlled (domain) environments they are asked for real administrator approval also - which they usually cannot get
Installing into Appdata avoids all such hassle. -
donq last edited by
@hucker said in Duplicate Opera installation?:
And as I said, there should not be ANY ability to run any code through a browser. Code belongs in an exe file on your own computer.
Considering that browser itself is code, then your statement is meaningless. Every operation, even just simple drawing a rectangle, involves some code execution.
What about 'badly written code' - have you written alot of code? I have - and I can say 'bug-free' with 100% certainity only about one 10 byte assembly program I wrote maybe 35 years ago.Browser contains millions of lines of code, running on operating system, containing much more code and it is theoretically impossible to make all this bug-free. Sometimes some people praise open source, because it allows anyone to find and fix bugs - unfortunately no one will scan through millions of code lines and find hidden paths to allow some bad data screwing code execution up.
