Upgrade from opera 12 to 24 complaint
mikealphatango last edited by
I have been using Opera since Opera 5 and have loved it. The speed, security, stability, and features have always meshed well with how I used the web. My main browser until now has been Opera 12.17. Lately, however, I have noticed more and more websites, especially the news websites I depend heavily on for work, are not usable on Opera or render in an almost unreadable fashion.
So I tried upgrading to Opera 24. Imagine my surprise when the installation finished and I found it completely unusable. No toolbars, no panels, no main menu bar, no status bar, a crippled and amputated set of settings and, worst of all, I didn't gain anything for this complete lack of usability. I know that tablets and phones are the new hotness, and people such as myself still using desktop PC's are Neo-Luddite technological dinosaurs but, as a researcher and writer, a desktop PC remains my computer of choice. I am dismayed, therefore, to find that all trace of standard UI tools are gone.
I couldn't find how or where to restore these tools, either. Therefore, I can't use Opera for my email, I can't use my old bookmarks, I couldn't even choose continuing to use my custom-built homepage. On top of that, the only web pages I could manage to actually load were wikipedia. Even Opera's own help pages just spun uselessly until the "Can not find web page" message was displayed.
Either I'm doing something very wrong or (I suspect) Opera 24 has become a monstrosity that has left users such as myself behind.
I am posting this in the hope that some-one from Opera can tell me if the UI tools I've depended on are still available (hidden behind the stripped-down UI somewhere, perhaps) or if my initial impression is correct.
I am loathe to ditch Opera completely. After all, I have literally years of business and personal email in Opera Mail and I've genuinely enjoyed my previous Opera experience. That said, 12 is rapidly becoming obsoleted by evolving web standards and 24 appears to not fit my needs at all. I hope that I can be convinced I am wrong before I ditch a program I have used happily for years.
blackbird71 last edited by
Indeed, 12.xx is experiencing increasing website incompatibility issues for many users - after all, it's essentially a nearly 2-year-old browser with only minimal and/or security updates over that time-span. The new Blink Opera versions (15 and above) are "simplified" browsers by design, with many of the user features/tweaks now needing to be supplied by user installation of various 3rd-party extensions, much like the concept of the Chrome/Chromium browser family from which the new Opera was derived.
Notes and Mail are not part of the new browser, nor likely will be for a very long time, if ever. For Mail, you can simply keep using that portion of the 12.xx browser or try installing the new OperaMail program (which is merely a 12.xx Opera browser with all the non-mail elements blocked)... since eMail technology doesn't change much, there shouldn't be new mail compatibility or security issues going either way.
As far as configurability and customizability in the new Opera, that's been a major controversy among some users (as perusal of some of these forum threads will demonstrate, your post being merely the latest in a very long line of similar complaints). There are a few native things a user can do to tweak the new Opera (in part via opera:flags) and some other shortcut techniques, though whether you can natively do the things you seek depends in great measure on specifically what they are. As noted, using certain extensions allows users to tweak some elements of operation and display.
As far as the new Opera not accessing many web pages properly, that just doesn't sound right. One of the main "selling points" of the new Opera versions are their demonstrated improvement in website compatibility over the 12.xx family. Since I'm not expert in the new Opera versions (living at present mainly with Firefox until/if new Opera improves in a few key areas that matter to me), it'll have to rest with others here to try to help you navigate through your site compatibility issues.
mikealphatango last edited by
So to summarize:
- Everything I said, aside from page loading weirdness, is correct
- Opera already knows about these complaints, and
- apparently doesn't plan to do anything about them
Would that be accurate?
blackbird71 last edited by
I'm not sure "accurate" is the best word. The complaints you voice might well be answered by Opera as being at least partly solvable by use of selected extensions and in other cases by a user adapting his habits to employ certain new browser attributes. That Opera knows about the complaints (or at least most of them) is quite likely, given the amount of electrons that have been temporarily inconvenienced by users posting to complain and defenders posting to reply. In a few cases (bookmarking, for example, even though it's still a work in progress), Opera has responded to complaints by inserting a browser attribute natively. However, not everything can be done in a Blink-engine framework that was done in a Presto-engine framework, so even if Opera agreed with a complaint, it might not be feasible to respond to it.
The basic reality is that Opera as a company move felt it needful to redesign their browser using "somebody else's" rendering engine instead of their own Presto engine. That has inherently led to a significantly different browser feel and feature set. Coupled with that has been Opera's decision to pursue a broader market share of users who, Opera believes, place less emphasis on browser configurability and customization than did many of Opera's past users and place more emphasis on a "simple, sleek" browser that is fast and has good website compatibility.
What is certain is that Opera has turned a corporate corner and it will not be going back to a Presto-based browser. At the end of the day, all that users of any free browser can do is suggest and explain, politely and appropriately, where they have complaints. In the case of Opera, having done that, users can either continue using the Old Opera version(s), use a different browser brand, try adapting to the new Opera version(s), or a mix of all three. Myself, I prefer the last approach, using a mix of browsers to keep abreast of changes and innovations, but currently using FireFox with some key extensions for my primary browsing.
lem729 last edited by
Too many people have repeated the same complaints even when they have been answered ad infinitum. So it gets tiresome to respond. However, on the menu bar, generally, you can open it with a simple press of the alt Key. If for some reason that doesn't work for you then Alt. F. But generally, one key and it's open, and one key and it's closed. It's a wonderful toggle. So why waste the real estate of the browser with a menu bar. I find it much better as it is. Also, there are fewer menu items, and most of them have keyboard shortcuts. You say, no toolbars. I'm not sure what you're looking for there. You do have a tab bar. You can do searches in the Omnibus Address-search bar. And you can easily add a personal bookmarks bar, if you know how to activate it. Click on Settings/User Interface/and Show the Bookmarks Bar. There's it's done. You have it (and if you need more, there are some great bookmark manager extensions). So most of what's needed is there. And you are getting some other features and bonuses with Opera 24 that you didn't get with the old Opera. One of those is a state of the art Speed Dial with folders for each Speed Dial position. There are others, including stash and Discover. I don't find Opera at all unusable, and the idea that its a crippled and amputated group of settings for me is ludicrous. The browser is "wonderful." It's exactly what I've been looking for in a browser. And many customization features come with extensions. Almost all extensions in the Chrome store can be used in Opera now, and also, there are many many Opera extensions in the Opera add-on location. Many people's complaints come from not having exactly what they had before, and not wanting to try to adjust. In reality, you end up with some features, you cannot replicate in the new Opera, and many that you can by extension. Also, many extensions add features to Opera that are super, and weren't available before. And of course, all of this being said, the new Opera is faster than the old Opera, and has a greater ease in accessing a wider range of sites. So all told, the glass is either -- or so the expression goes -- half full or half empty. In truth, at least for me, I find it "far more" than half full.
plague last edited by
One thing I must disagree with entirely:
"You say, no toolbars. I'm not sure what you're looking for there. You do have a tab bar. You can do searches in the Omnibus Address-search bar. And you can easily add a personal bookmarks bar, if you know how to activate it. Click on Settings/User Interface/and Show the Bookmarks Bar. There's it's done. You have it (and if you need more, there are some great bookmark manager extensions)."
What the original poster means is the ability to customize the toolbars. Add, remove and move around items om the toolbars.
Opera 12 was infinitely customizable in this regard. Opera 24 isn't at all.
You can't add anything to the toolbars, except an extension button that you can't even decide where it should be positioned.
Say you want to add a custom textinput box on a toolbar? Well, you can't in Opera 24.
The only way to even come close to do that in Opera 24, is to create an extension, have that extension put an extension button on the toolbar that opens a popup or dropdown, and then in that popup/dropdown put said textinput box.
That hardly counts as customizable in my opinion, and it's not in any way shape or form an optimal experience.
Say you need to access that textinput box dozens or even hundreds of times every day? (yes, it is a realistic scenario, I do that myself at times)
Having to move your cursor to wherever the extension button happened to be placed, click on it, click on the textinput box and then type what you need to type... Every single time... Would pretty much be insanity.
All that is needed to allow for better integration of custom UI elements is for the extensions API to be extended with the proper hooks. That's not in any way impossible to do. It's just that they haven't decided to do it, yet atleast. Which I'm very much hoping they will do at some point.
They claimed moving from Presto to Blink would free up people so they could concentrate on UI innovation instead of Presto maintenance. I really hope so, because so far, Opera 12 is beating Opera 24 hands down in regards to any kind of innovation. It has way more features and way more customizability and it's not even half the size!
Don't get me wrong, I like some of the things in new Opera, and I understand that development takes time (I'm a developer myself). I appreciate their effort, I really do.
But, the criticism from Opera Presto users is valid and the complete silence from Opera in regards to whether certain features will be re-implemented or not in due time is not helping.
lem729 last edited by
There's nothing wrong with saying you would prefer certain features. But Plague, I just don't need the customization features that you allude to at all. The original poster did not complain about the ability to customize toolbars. That's Plague where you're going with it now. The original poster just said as to toolbar there were none, eg, " No toolbars, no panels, no main menu bar, no status bar, a crippled and amputated set of settings . . . " A ridiculous summary. I just don't agree with that analysis at all. It was a very misleading criticism. I don't say criticism of Opera 24 is invalid, although I do very much like the browser. But there's no excuse for making the criticism as misleading and deceptive as the original poster made it. That's offensive/unfair and is a pain to have to respond to it. The original poster also said he can't use his old bookmarks or his custom built home page. Why not? There is a Bookmark Importer for importing from Opera Presto to Opera Blink. Has he tried it. And on the custom built home page, you can go to Settings, and then click on Open a specific page or set of pages. That includes a link to something in your computer (all you need is the descriptive address for the home page in your computer), so it ought to pick up a custom built home page. In sum, the original post was way off base.
Now you can customize where you want to place your tabs. You can drag them wherever you want. You also have the ability to show whether you want a personal bookmarks bar or not. I chose not to, because I can get my bookmarks via a vertical display (with a bookmarks manager). You can customize the speed dial page, by hiding the google bar, and adding the art work you like for themes. I agree this customization is not extensive. I would argue that extensions are a way of customizing your browser. There are even some with side-panels.
Now you say, @Plague, "Say you need to access that textinput box dozens or even hundreds of times every day? . . . Having to move your cursor to wherever the extension button happened to be placed, click on it, click on the textinput box and then type what you need to type... Every single time... Would pretty much be insanity." But Plague, the problem you describe is not "quite" accurate. For example, I have a DuckDuckGo extension (that gives me a textinput search box). https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/duckduckgo-for-opera-2/?display=en Now, I don't have to move my cursor to that extension to get a search in it. What I do is create a keyboard shortcut for that extension. Mine is AltD. Now, when I go AltD on the keyboard, the cursor "instantly" appears in the extension box. I can then start typing my search without having had to move my cursor to the box. Remember, when you go Ctrl + Shift + E to get your extension list, at the bottom of it is a way to create keyboard shortcuts to the extensions. With DuckDuckGo, using the keyboard shortcut makes unnecessary having to move the cursor to the text input box. My guess is that there may well be other extensions with text input boxes that operate the same way.
plague last edited by
Yes I know there are extensions like the DuckDuckGo extension you mentioned. I do use the "All in one Web Searcher" extensions, which provides a similar thing as your DuckDuckGo extension, but with the ability to add any search provider you want.
However... That's not the same as how I was able to add a simple textinput box right next to the url box in Opera 12, which I then could add any search provider I wanted to.
Why should third party textinput boxes be secondary citizens to the url box?
Key shortcuts are handy and all, but they are a solution to a problem that should not exist and they don't work at all for people who simply doesn't know about them, for example if my friends use the browser on my computer.
A textinput box directly on the toolbar, which then has an icon or descriptive label in it, will instantly be recognized for what it's function is, even for new people.
The other customizability you mentioned, I never said anything about. I know full well what I can and cannot do in Opera Blink, and Opera Presto.
I'm running both Opera 12 and Opera developer 26.
Opera 12 simply wipes the floor with all other browsers, including Opera Blink, when it comes to customizability.
When the move to WebKit (later Blink) was announced, it was said it was going to be "primarily an "under the hood" change".
That is simply not the case, as it's a radically different browser all together.
Now, if they do intend on bringing some or most of the Opera Presto customizability over to Opera Blink, then I will be a happy camper, and I am perfectly fine waiting for that until it's ready.
But the complete silence from Opera in regards to Opera Presto users questions, that naturally become complaints when they get no response, is still not helping.
And I must point out again, I'm not dissing the work Opera is doing.
I do like the new browser.
I do appreciate their work.
I just wish they could atleast mention if they plan on bringing back customizability Opera was famous for.
harrykrak last edited by
Go back to 12.17. Enter opera:config in the address bar, click on the user prefs tag and enter this into the Custom User-Agent field
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/31.0
It will solve a lot of rendering problems that browser sniffers cause. Not all the problems, but enough of them to allow us to keep using opera presto, for a while at least.
osipov1898 last edited by
I too am having a lot of trouble using Opera 24. Today's problem: in old Opera I used to have a "double page back" arrow next to the regular back arrow. Not sure exactly what it's called, but it goes back farther than the single back arrow. Without it I have to back out slowly and laboriously "back, back, back, back, etc.", instead of just using the one command. Is it possible to add this function back? Is it possible to just return to Opera 12? It seems that I have lost a lot of functions with "new" Opera that I would like to have back. Is there a hidden way to customize my browser tools or is it a lost cause? Thanks for any help. JCBrown
plague last edited by
Unfortunately no, you can't add that function back.
This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about, this functionality should be trivial to add to a browser via extension if the developers won't do it themselves. But with the Chromium locked-down approach, this suddenly becomes an impossibility.
Yes, you can go back to Opera 12, but it hasn't been updated in over a year and will keep getting more and more incompatible with websites, so it's not really an option in the long run.
At the moment, it's not so bad, so you can use Opera 12 for most things, but that won't last forever.
leocg Moderator last edited by
in old Opera I used to have a "double page back" arrow next to the regular back arrow. Not sure exactly what it's called, but it goes back farther than the single back arrow. Without it I have to back out slowly and laboriously "back, back, back, back, etc.", instead of just using the one command. Is it possible to add this function back?
Click on the back button and keep the mouse button pressed.
plague last edited by
That history-dropdown, I think you you're referring to, is not what he is asking about.
That dropdown was available in Opera 12 aswell, but the "double page back" button had another function and another dropdown. If you clicked on the button, it would take you back to the first page you visited on that domain and if you open the dropdown menu for that button, it would list the first pages you visited for each domain you've visited on that tab.
That can be highly useful and is nowhere near the same as what you suggested.
fighterjetme last edited by
Opera is so annoying that I soon wish to delete it.Everytime I am searching the web through Opera,Opera will suddenly crash and i have to restart the whole webpage.