Learning programming

A Former User

Platform?

Where is it?
Windows XP SP3.

Yes, and with Chrome, here in my yesterday posts the input looks the same.
Now I'll probably try opening the doc here... Yeah, same "????X".
Opening the source... Yeah, same "<head><title>????X coffeecup</title></head>" with that MS Sans Serif there...

A Former User

By the way, I can't seem to edit the code here in Chrome - while I could in my Opera yesterday*:)*

A Former User

Yes, and with Chrome, here in my yesterday posts the input looks the same. Now I'll probably try opening the doc here... Yeah, same "????X". Opening the source... Yeah, same "<head><title>????X coffeecup</title></head>" with that MS Sans Serif there...

Now opened it in my Firefox (it's 3.6.6!).
It had the same "????X" title. I edited the images a bit...
Then - in the very end, before closing the Notepad - I thought there'd be no harm to retry the mixed title...
No, I didn't change any fonts; I just deleted those question marks and typed "Янде" there, saved, reloaded in browser - TA-DA! :jester:
It appeared exactly what it had been and was supposed to be, ie just great/right*:yes:* Well - it's in my senior Firefox: same OS, bla-bla - but works!

A Former User

Now I created another html with not only a "mixed" title but also Cyrillic [plain] text in the body. And again no matter how I try to edit/change fonts, it's only correctly displayed in my Firefox 3.6.
Actually, this Firefox is the only one on here which is properly Russian-localised - it even originates from a Russian source.
I have these poops here:

:dunno: .íåçíàþ. :hi: .privet. :bye: .poka. :tut: .àéàé. :walla: .îáñòåíó. :spammer: .ïèøó. .chic. .hehe. .olen'. .elk. .êîëäóí.

When I edited that in my Opera's "source code", those became "?????"s as it did that time with my previous doc in question.
I tried tinkering with Opera's font settings - no avail.
What's wrong with it? Shall I use certain metatags in the header - like to style the document?
Why do some browsers not handle Cyrillic by default with the HTML5 doctype?

A Former User

And again no matter how I try to edit/change fonts, it's only correctly displayed in my Firefox 3.6.
Actually, this Firefox is the only one on here which is properly Russian-localised - it even originates from a Russian source.

Now I launched another Firefox I have installed - 4.0, and initially - at the very start, while loading - the "Coffeecup" doc's title was displaying o'k for a moment – then it turned to "ßíäåX coffeecup" as it always was in those two other browsers (Operapresto pseudo-Russian & Google Chrome Br-En).
Forgot to mention that this version of Firefox is localised British English too - as my Google Chrome is*:happy:*
Well, now I'm about to check this other - later - document here in 4.0... Yup, both the title and that Cyrillic content are "messed up" as they are in those two aforementioned browsers...

sgunhouse

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer

Did you try checking your encoding? Characters that are not allowed in a given encoding become question marks, whereas characters that don't exist in a font become boxes.

A Former User

What encoding? I didn't encode the Cyrillic letters - I just typed them in there.

They become question marks only when I try editing that shit (retype them anew) in a "page source" tab in my Opera. If I type them in in the Notepad, right there they look nice - while in those but one browsers it's "ßíäåX" and "àéàé" (I copypaste that from the source and page itself - just loaded, while there in the doc(s) they look perfectly Cyrillic as well as directly copypasted from there the very same in here - "ЯндеX coffeecup").

Well, and I ain't got no boxes. :norris:

Deleted User

Deleted User

Setting a charset shows correct title in browser!

&lt;!DOCTYPE html&gt;
&lt;html&gt;
&lt;head&gt;
&lt;meta http-equiv=&quot;content-type&quot; content=&quot;text/html; charset=UTF-8&quot;&gt; &lt;!-- charset must be set! --&gt;
&lt;title&gt;Янде Coffee Cup&lt;/title&gt;&lt;/head&gt;
&lt;body&gt;
&lt;button type=&quot;button&quot; onclick=&quot;alert('Give Miiii Coffiieeeee!')&quot;&gt;Do not disturb my Coffieeeeee!&lt;/button&gt;
&lt;/body&gt;
&lt;/html&gt;

A Former User

What do these meta attributes do exactly?

Well, I haven't learned about this element yet, but so far they didn't include that in their example codes...

I wonder what?
Why is it that one browsers "corrupt" those Cyrillic while others do just fine with it?
Yesterday I thought of an idea to check the codes of some Russian sites/pages which are plenty and whose Cyrillic doesn't get "corrupt" in those "corrupting browsers" in that way... I'm up to that yet. :rolleyes:

A Former User

Well, so far I've taken a look at two of such (Russian pages).
The first one's declaration heavily resembled non-5 HTML (so far as I can judge), the next one's looks more HTML5ish (well, it's still not it):

!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"

This site (page) does have a 'mixed' title too:

<title>Dubna.RU • Дубна.Рф • Прогноз погоды</title>

...So far I can't see any meta-charset there, but there's this:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/styles.css" />

The only "language" thing I can see so far is this <script> element (still in the head - last but two):

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://apis.google.com/js/plusone.js"> {lang: 'ru'} </script>

So, so far I haven't found an html5 page with a 'mixed' title yet...
...ahm..:wait:

Deleted User

Deleted User

<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> tells the browser to use UTF-8 as charencoding to get all charcters in HTML correctly interpreted.

Dependent of your OS and Texteditor with Russian language you can have UTF-8 or KOI8-R or ISO 8859-5 or Windows-1251
See
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOI8
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1251
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8859-5

A Former User

<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> tells the browser to use UTF-8 as charencoding to get all charcters in HTML correctly interpreted.

Well, are these attributes/values proper in HTML5?
And another question stays: why do certain browsers (version(s) of) handle those/my pages when they do not contain any metas at all?

Deleted User

Deleted User

Well, are these attributes/values proper in HTML5?

The element META is allowed with attribute http-equv in HTML5.
See
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/document-metadata.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/document-metadata.html#attr-meta-http-equiv-content-type
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/document-metadata.html#attr-meta-http-equiv

And another question stays: why do certain browsers (version(s) of) handle those/my pages when they do not contain any metas at all?

Some browsers do have a default fallback, if charencoding is missing. Some browsers guess which encoding it could be. On some servers the correct encoding is send by a HTTP header. On some servers the incorrect encoding is send by a HTTP header.

A Former User

Some browsers do have a default fallback, if charencoding is missing. Some browsers guess which encoding it could be.

But if I amend my htmls with that charset - will those "good" browsers do not mind it? Like "Gosh! Master added a 'charset' - let me break then!"?

Deleted User

Deleted User

will those "good" browsers do not mind it?

Well, they might mind or not.

You can trust me, i'm webdevoloper and have more or less bad experiences with browsers and websites over years

A Former User

will those "good" browsers do not mind it?

Well, they might mind or not.

Well... then I'll investigate some more Russian sites' codes first... :rolleyes:
You mind?

A Former User

You know, Angie, lots of Russian sites seem to be written not in HTML5 - whether it's HTML4.01 or XHTML (once I noticed).
And well, I've just come across two sites in a row written in HTML5 and having a Cyrillic title - one of them even mixed (and the latter is not even Russian, but Google's localised page).
Well, both of them have that meta: the former (Яндекс) has it "<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">", the Google one - "<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="content-type">".

So now I'm gonna try creating a test doc with this head element.

A Former User

Angie, I added this line: "<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">"; now I'm having boxes there instead of letters (a new doc from one of those just by adding that).

<abbr title="Add/edit→">➫</abbr>
You know what?
I just opened the code of this new one (with the boxes) and rewrote *the boxes* here in Opera, applied: the page has got looking just fine!

I don't know if it needs a messing with the fonts somehow...

Deleted User

Deleted User

For HTML it is irrelevant for char encoding if you have HTML5 or HTML 4.x or XHTML.

The problem with the "boxes" may be incorrect characters in HTML and wrong encoding (in HTML code or Server sent HTTP headers) or missng charcters in a used font for display in Opera.

But your texteditor should store the HTML file as UTF8!

Please show me a URL of such russian webpage which title is incorrect. I'll investigate.

A Former User

But your texteditor should store the HTML file as UTF8!

Should I check that out?

Please show me a URL of such russian webpage which title is incorrect. I'll investigate.

You meant "Russian"?
Well, I don't seem to be able to: the titles themselves of those Russian (and localised) [online] sites/pages are nothing but correct - while mine have never been published yet (I only shared .html files in a group or two - you want that?).