What This New Forum Says About Opera ASA

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

Well, haavard, it didn't take long for some more to appear! Here are the titles of two spam threads that are on the Windows forum as I write this:

love vashikaran specialist baba ji +91-9982487292

intercast Love Marriage specialist by V.K baba ji +91-9982487292

Why Opera ASA is not filtering in a way that would automatically prevent this---the two thread titles above have phone numbers and the words "love" and "marriage" in the titles!---I don't understand.

[leocg]

leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by

In my experience, seeing more or less spam depends on the time of the day you access it. At least here span seems to be more concentrated at a specific time.

[sgunhouse]

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer last edited by

I had a look, but couldn't find any spam on that forum. Could you clarify what you are looking at?

Prior to my post above, I had deleted some 30 spam posts - most in the Opera for Windows forum. I know exactly what he was referring to there ... those "black magic love guru" spammers - or may even be just one under 10 different user names and email addresses - seem to be very active at about midnight my time (0400 GMT), it is a regular thing to see multiple posts by them at that time of day. (I used "Ban user + delete messages" - faster, but it doesn't leave the messages in the logs.)

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

My opinion is that, so long as these spam posts are timely handled, it's not an issue of the highest priority to worry about. It doesn't kill the forum, or anything. I guess in the case of this thread, it seems like a matter of personal attitude. My advice is to ignore the occasions - or better help the mods by flagging them. Take your revenge quickly, pal.

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

I appreciate what you're saying, joshl, but why wouldn't Opera ASA configure filters in such a way that new threads whose titles clearly indicate that they are spam never appear in the first place? Why should mods or other forum staff have to waste their time playing Whac-A-Mole with spammers whose thread titles shout "spam"?

[sgunhouse]

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer last edited by

Not that easy. You see all the extra spaces and symbols in the titles? They are trying to avoid filters. I would be in favor of blocking any post with a phone number in the title - that might not be too hard.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

...but why wouldn't Opera ASA configure filters in such a way that new threads whose titles clearly indicate that they are spam never appear in the first place?

It's dangerous in itself - in the first place.
I've no idea if you you do, but I remember the user access problems on MyOpera, caused by automatic filtration of the sort you suggest, flooding the dedicated forum threads with outcries of frustration. I hope this forum won't see such a mistake. Even if we do anything about that, the possibly implemented measures could onle help moderators by autoflagging, or some other more sophisticated subroutines introduced - again avoiding automatic banning as a worst nightmare.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

1. If a newly (just right about now) registered user posts a thread containing a link and with the title containing manually preset keywords, the thread goes autoflagged. It is crucial to implement an exceptions lists into such subroutines from the very start.
2. Newly registered users could go under additional restrictions. For example, too many threads within a certain time period; maybe the posts time limit could be flexible in this way too; other suggestions? Maybe even to introduce a pending approval for the first few (very few) threads of a newbie? It's debatable: can be applied in dire circumstances... A pro is that if a newbie just registered to get a technical help, the Opera staff are the people who can help most probably, along with approving the thread.

Any other suggestions?

[linuxmint7]

linuxmint7 last edited by

If a newly (just right about now) registered user posts a thread containing a link and with the title containing manually preset keywords, the thread goes autoflagged. It is crucial to implement an exceptions lists into such subroutines from the very start.

Well first, a lot of recent spammers are starting to create (copy and paste) duplicates of already existing proper topics. Your weather topic was duplicated the other day by a spammer, and they just pasted their spamming rubbish (links, phone numbers etc) at the end of the post.

Newly registered users could go under additional restrictions. For example, too many threads within a certain time period; maybe the posts time limit could be flexible in this way too; other suggestions? Maybe even to introduce a pending approval for the first few (very few) threads of a newbie? It's debatable: can be applied in dire circumstances... A pro is that if a newbie just registered to get a technical help, the Opera staff are the people who can help most probably, along with approving the thread.

There is already a restriction (of sorts) in place, the 60 second restriction and not being able to post for (I think) another 10 minutes ?. The thing is with spammers, they want to post as much of their rubbish as quick as possible, if they get stung (blocked from posting) by a certain restriction because they posted too many times in a certain amount of time, they just create another account.

Any other suggestions?

I personally think it is fine how it currently is, It is still early days yet, and I have only been a mod for a couple of weeks, but I am on here at least twice a day, and I my first priority when visiting is to zap all the spam that I find. Even the cunning and smart spammers have a difficult time hiding from me.

I just zapped one not two minutes before posting this comment. I'm on the case.

EDIT: Another 10 spam posts just gone bye byes.

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

Here's six more that have popped up in just the last few minutes:

I've spent considerably less than an hour here today, and look at the number of spam thread titles that I've copied and posted in this thread. Spam threads were not occurring at this rate on the old Opera Windows Desktop forum. The failure to filter this stuff is ridiculous. It's Opera ASA's job to address this, but I'm skeptical that they care enough to do so. I've made my point, and so will say no more.

[linuxmint7]

linuxmint7 last edited by

@fluxrev, Have a look, they've gone.

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

@linuxmint7 You guys are quick, that's true, and I applaud your efforts. But I still think that Opera ASA is to be faulted for neglecting the forum in such a way that it's necessary for you and other mods to have to play Whac-A-Mole with spammers whose thread titles clearly indicate spam.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

Spam threads were not occurring at this rate on the old Opera Windows Desktop forum.
Have you read my post and actually thought about what I said?

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

Have you read my post and actually thought about what I said?

I really don't have anything else to say about the forum spam issue, but since you've asked me a direct question, I'll respond. You are directing me to your previous post, where you said, "There were many more other sub-forums for spammers to abuse back then..." What's your point? What is it that you think I've missed? I'm talking about my experience with the old Desktop (or whatever it was called) forum, and am saying that this new Windows forum has a much greater spam problem than that old Windows Desktop forum did. Your objection to that statement is what, exactly?

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

I see somebody has an attitude..?

The less the targeted area, the more the density of targeting is.
That is the "same" site having shrunk in areas will get a less amount of "mishaps" - assuming the spammers' day plan stays as it used to be.

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

@joshl If your reference to an "attitude" is referring to my previous post, you're mistaken—I was simply seeking clarification. In any event, I understand your and rafaelluik's (assuming that you've correctly reflected
what he meant) point, but I'm not convinced that that theory, an Opera-friendly theory, as I would expect from rafaelluik, actually explains the difference in spam thread rates that I've noticed. And it is only a theory, a theory for which no hard numbers—and there is more than one number that might be relevant—were provided. Furthermore, blackbird71 said earlier in this thread that, "Both Opera forums are/were continually being attacked by spammers, and what I've seen occur in both places are much the same as each other". As it happens, I don't agree with that, but blackbird71 was certainly a regular, thoughtful presence on the old forum, and if it is true, as he thinks it is, that the amount of spam on this new Windows forum is the same as it was on the old Windows desktop forum, then your/rafaelluik's theory is nullified. In any event, it's only a theory, and it may be valid, but then again, it may not be. I still maintain that there's considerably more spam on this forum than the old Desktop forum and that Opera ASA is to be faulted for failing to do more about it.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

General relativity is, too, "only a theory". But it is what we have and what explains things. I know and I guess everybody else MyOperans do, that the Old Site got spam. I reckon we could dig into the spam industry or whatever it is in order to more scientifically explain things to you, considering ads targeting and distribution in applied science such as statistics and Set Theory ("only" a theory, though), but

1. as I said, as long as this is contained, such spam is not an issue of life&death or like that, and may be more or less put up with;
2. as Rafael or Linux (or both) said, it's o'k as it is, and myself am perfectly fine. Visit other sites and compare. Please don't forget though, that people are welcome here (while - if you don't remember, we do about the disaster with automatic moderation).

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

Aside from the fact that you're not Einstein, I would observe that you're not really responding to what I've said. But that's OK, as I'm not looking to pursue this, and won't be.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

I remember in the old Forum that accounts were blocked accidentally by spam block. I think that should be introduced in the new forum carefully.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

... Furthermore, blackbird71 said earlier in this thread that, "Both Opera forums are/were continually being attacked by spammers, and what I've seen occur in both places are much the same as each other". As it happens, I don't agree with that, but blackbird71 was certainly a regular, thoughtful presence on the old forum, and if it is true, as he thinks it is, that the amount of spam on this new Windows forum is the same as it was on the old Windows desktop forum, then your/rafaelluik's theory is nullified. In any event, it's only a theory, and it may be valid, but then again, it may not be. I still maintain that there's considerably more spam on this forum than the old Desktop forum and that Opera ASA is to be faulted for failing to do more about it.

Well, since my name has come up... In the old MyOpera Opera-for-Windows forums, I remember nights (usually, I see the spam peak during the local night-time hours here) when there would pop up 3 or 4 spams right together, looking very similar to the current ones, then a "normal" post or two, then 2 or 3 more spams. Usually, a few hours later, they'd all be gone. Depending on when you observed the forums, you'd think either that they were spam infested or that they were almost spam-free. Once in a rare while, the spam would persist for a day or two (perhaps a mod was sick or off living a real life).

IMO, it's not a lot different here in the new Opera forum (including the Windows forum), in regards to the numbers and kind of spam I'm seeing here (and reporting) from time to time... much of it comes in at local night here (Eastern USA), and is largely gone at various other times of the day. My understanding is that the heaviest spam originates from a few geographical regions where the spammers are hired cheap and in large numbers - areas where spamming is a reasonable source of income for those hired to register and spam in forums. However, I do believe the spam has gotten somewhat more sophisticated in the techniques the spammers are trying in order to bypass spam filtering at various forum sites. Over time, everything changes.

There are a few forums I've seen where there is virtually no spam whatever (DSLR and Wilders being two), but my understanding is that they're very heavily filtered and moderated. For example, one kind of filtering that can be used by some forums is to suppress a message if it exceeds too many URL links within - but that causes the occasional legitimate reference-type posting full of URLs to get axed as well. There's no simple answer there.

I stress again, I personally believe these forums are keeping spam under control. By my reckoning, it's under control if it gets killed off within an hour or two of first appearing. If one argues that spam should never appear in the first place to be under control, they are obligated to describe how a forum can attain that without filtering that impacts the nature of posting, adding a lot of cross-checking of individuals when they register, or the addition of full-time spam patrolling moderators.