So what is Opera's target audience now?
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blackbird71 last edited by... Why is it people keep missing another possibility - they could very add some desired functionality back in where it's feasible under the new engine. I don't see any reason why those of us who want such things shouldn't express that strongly. Successful companies have been know to listen to their user base on occasion.
But for some reason people want to confuse the "bring Presto back" argument with "bring back some features where possible".
This "just accept it or not" is a false choice. I'm arguing for making Blink Opera better by restoring some desirable features where possible, not going back to Presto. Why is that even something to argue over?While I agree that making reasoned pleas or arguments for certain features on their own merits is a good, constructive way to try to persuade Opera to incorporate or return a feature, there is no way in the "here and now" for such discussions to impact one's current browser selection or usage. In the here and now, one truly has but a three-fold choice: use Old Opera with its superior configurability but also its increasing incompatibilities, use New Opera as it currently shapes up with whatever limitations or unpleasantries result, or use a different browser with its own set of limitations and issues.
Your "missing" possibility is missing, in large measure, because Opera developers are a limited resource. In a universe of limitless resources, Opera would most likely have already added every conceivable feature and configuration tool Opera browser's ever had or could ever be imagined. But that's not reality. To add a feature or tweak/adjustment requires development time and introduces potential 'unpleasant' interactions. Moreover, it diverts scarce resources from developing features or operationality which Opera believes are more on-target for whatever it's aiming at. That is all part of whether or not the idea or suggestion is "feasible".
I agree that the only eventual real-world answer for more technically-demanding Opera users is to seek to make "Blink Opera better by restoring some desirable features where possible". But whether that's feasible depends not only on the mechanics of the feature being sought, but whether resources are available without sacrificing/complicating other critical development work and whether the result would detract from the end target that Opera is trying to hit.
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username342342345 last edited by
Well, you have to keep in mind Opera is/was used in corporate settings in Europe as the default browser. Like how much of IE count was based on companies using base window images, which only had IE. That may explain the great dive in Opera usage before the blink version came out. Also every place will have a different percentage of opera users, but all in all the percents seem correct over the various sites.
The main problem I see with opera's usage is the version fragmentation. There usually was the current version and a few from the last version. Now it's Some from current blink version, some from old blink version, some from current presto, some from old presto. I have a feeling that fragmentation will keep getting worse since opera seems to have adopted google's agile SDLC process. Not sure if it's to sync with the development of blink, or just to hop on the fad bandwagon.
I don't think opera's main objective is browser penetration, or selling browsers to embedded device manufactures anymore. I have a feeling they're trying to switch to a service type monetization scheme. Where they have an online store where people get "opera max" or etc type services. (i have no idea what opera max or their other services do.)
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drewfx last edited by
Then we agree.
Except it's a four-fold choice because personally I'm running 12.17 and 21 in parallel.
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Deleted User last edited by
I have a feeling they're trying to switch to a service type monetization scheme. Where they have an online store where people get "opera max" or etc type services. (i have no idea what opera max or their other services do.)
Very perceptive.
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blackbird71 last edited by
... I don't think opera's main objective is browser penetration, or selling browsers to embedded device manufactures anymore. I have a feeling they're trying to switch to a service type monetization scheme. Where they have an online store where people get "opera max" or etc type services. (i have no idea what opera max or their other services do.)
So... where does Opera earn revenue from the online store service-type scheme? (Assuming, of course, that they continue respecting privacy per their FAQ comments regarding Opera Max, and don't market the user data associated with thngs like the O-Max compression product). For revenue to appear, somebody somewhere's got to pay them for something.
Free browsers generate revenue in ways other than the sale of the browser itself. If one monetizes the elements provided through a store by selling them, those additional (but often key) "features" of the browser will no longer be free; if one monetizes through selling the user data associated with whatever's in the store, user privacy can be violated - which may not play too well especially in the European community. While selling services or subscriptions seems like a good revenue-generating idea, you first have to have something to sell that buyers both want and can't get elsewhere for "free"... and that implies changing more than a company's business strategy - it implies changing the entire current Internet-related paradigm.
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lem729 last edited by
I think the goal is the browser market and the income there. Opera has a long history of innovative design. If it can offer a browser as fast as Chrome, with less of a footprint on the computer, and that can handle Chrome extensions, but also offer extras, like the extensions in the Opera store (which could yet grow), its distinctive unique Speed Dial with Folders (Chrome has nothing like that), Discover, Off-Road mode for users who don't have all of the computer resources, etc. why can't they eat into Chrome's huge market domination. I don't see the big advantage for a user right now in choosing Chrome over Opera. (Right now, I personally prefer Opera, as I like the added features, and Chrome was using more of my computer resources). Opera doesn't have to beat Chrome. All it has to do is increase its market share significantly. Wouldn't people rather identify with and help Opera . . . (the same mentality that pushed Netscape over Internet Explorer years ago) than identify with and help "big bad ohhhh so loose with your privacy" Google :)) and it's Behemoth (at least in terms of having eaten up and grown fat on market share) "Chrome." Maybe the mentality is with those who root for the underdog, but it is a phenomenon. Also, Coast for the Ipad is an example of how Opera can use another's engine, in this case, the Apple required engine (web-kit based), and come up with something totally out-of-the box, creative, and award winning. Analogously, for its desktop browser, Opera could still add a few goodies, the way the company did with its speed dial, and that puts on the browser with a Bing engine its unique imprimatur.
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username342342345 last edited by
I'm assuming companies pay them to transfer content. People pay to get the content, or get it for free.
I feel they are moving in that direction since services like apple app store, google play, amazon prime, xbox live, PSN, steam are very popular now. Everybody has their own store.
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alreadybanned last edited by
I'm assuming companies pay them to transfer content. People pay to get the content, or get it for free.
I feel they are moving in that direction since services like apple app store, google play, amazon prime, xbox live, PSN, steam are very popular now. Everybody has their own store.From what I've read, Opera's main source of income is, wait for it, Google. They, like other browsers receive a monetary return for searches that one would do through the Opera browser. The search engines generate revenue through the countless ads you are subjected to. So more search traffic results in more ad revenue and hence the payment for referrals. This the reason why Xbox and IE will only have Bing.
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lem729 last edited by
alreadybanned,
You must be talking about Firefox which received $1 billion from Google, in exchange for which Mozilla made Google the default search engine. Now there's an incestuous relationship. Now that's not "chump change" :))
They all have deals to make money from what Google will pay. Why? Because if a browser's developer-owner doesn't raise some income, it can't exist -- at least off the earnings of the browser. Surely it would not be getting the money to pay for research and development to produce the browser product from users like you. These companies that make browsers offer the product to you free (and yet you would complain that they take money from Google? You want something akin to an immaculate conception. It just isn't real. It doesn't and can't happen that way. Either you as user pay for the browser, or the owner-developer has to raise money elsewhere. That lucrative relationship with Google doesn't make Firefox any less a competitor of Google's. The same as to Opera. Now I would think Opera receives something from Google (in connection with using the latter's search engine), but far less that Firefox got, because Opera's market share is so much smaller than Firefox's.
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drewfx last edited by
Does Opera get referrer fees for the (ad supported) sites linked to by Discover?
I had that thought, because to me Discover seems kind of pointless since the Yahoo's of the world, seemingly every internet provider and a zillion other "make us your homepage" sites already link to similar content with even more user customization. Why build it into the browser?
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alreadybanned last edited by
alreadybanned,
You must be talking about Firefox which received $1 billion from Google, in exchange for which Mozilla made Google the default search engine. Now there's an incestuous relationship. Now that's not "chump change" :))
http://dottech.org/25695/google-to-pay-mozilla-nearly-1-billion-to-stay-default-search-engine-in-firefox/
They all have deals to make money from what Google will pay. Why? Because if a browser's developer-owner doesn't raise some income, it can't exist -- at least off the earnings of the browser. Surely it would not be getting the money to pay for research and development to produce the browser product from users like you. These companies that make browsers offer the product to you free (and yet you would complain that they take money from Google? You want something akin to an immaculate conception. It just isn't real. It doesn't and can't happen that way. Either you as user pay for the browser, or the owner-developer has to raise money elsewhere. That lucrative relationship with Google doesn't make Firefox any less a competitor of Google's. The same as to Opera. Now I would think Opera receives something from Google (in connection with using the latter's search engine), but far less that Firefox got, because Opera's market share is so much smaller than Firefox's.I specifically said "They(Opera), like other browsers". And considering that the question was about Opera's revenue sources it seems rather defensive to bring up Firefox.
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alreadybanned last edited by
Does Opera get referrer fees for the (ad supported) sites linked to by Discover?
I had that thought, because to me Discover seems kind of pointless since the Yahoo's of the world, seemingly every internet provider and a zillion other "make us your homepage" sites already link to similar content with even more user customization. Why build it into the browser?That's a very good question. I too wondered on what basis items shown on the Discover page were selected outside of geography. I am not a fan "Discover" either and find it a waste of bandwidth and resources for it to connect to pages I generally have not interest in. Being a source of revenue for them would make sense but I haven't been able to find anything on the subject
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lem729 last edited by
I kind of like Discover myself. For me it's a plus -- a huge, near endless (changing daily) news feed, not unlike the RSS extensions people like (only this one provides so much more), covering 14 subject areas, 36 countries, multiple languages. And yes, I use Feedly AND Discover, as significant news sources with the Opera browser. And I enjoy Discover at least as much, go to it, maybe more, as it provides a great opportunity to learn something about other people, and what news items are important to them. I like to click the cogwheel in Discover and change the country. It's seeing the world with a different set of eyes, from another perspective. Also, I enjoy changing the language, to read about the world or the country in another language. I think this is the case where the name, "Discover," is well-apt, because if you read some of these links with a setting on different countries, it is exactly what I find takes place. And it's just one button, takes up so little of the browser's real estate. Now it wouldn't bother me if another user could take the button away in their browser if they didn't want it.
As for the income issue, I think it's essential to know about Firefox/Mozilla receiving $1,000,000,000 from Google, just to agree to make it the Default engine in Firefox, because it, at least, provides some context to the statement by alreadybanned, that Opera makes all that money from Google. The browsers -- Opera, Firefox, etc. -- are offered for free and the money to pay for developments costs, staff, etc, to build them has to come from somewhere.
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drewfx last edited by
The following from Opera's most recent quarterly report might help to answer the target audience question:
http://www.operasoftware.com/company/investors/finance
{quote]
Opera’s key operational priorities in 2014 include
continuing to (i) sign operator agreements for Opera’s
existing and new products and services, including the
Rocket Optimizer
solution; (ii) grow revenues and users
of Opera’s mobile consumer products, particularly on the
Android and iOS smartphone platforms, and expand usage
and monetization of Opera’s owned and operated
properties; (iii) increase revenue from Mobile Publishers
and Advertisers (Opera Publisher Partner members), by
expanding Opera’s demand-side advertising reach and
capabilities; (iv) grow Opera’s desktop user base,
particularly in Russia/CIS; and (v) increase Opera’s overall
profitability and margins.
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drewfx last edited by
More:
[quote]
Today, the vast majority of Opera´s desktop users are in
the Russia/CIS region and in the emerging markets. Opera
is particularly focused on growing users in regions where it
already has a strong base of users, such as Russia.
[/quote] -
lem729 last edited by
Interesting, drewfx. . They have a 40 percent revenue growth in 2014. (From 62 to 87 million in one year). Revenue for desktop, up 6 percent YoY. New Opera Mini coming for Ipad (that's interesting. They're not limiting Ipad to just their Coast browser.. For televisions connected to the internet, they claim they are "the leading distribution medium to deliver premium video content, including Opera Mediaworks’ technology to monetize content owners." Cost of goods sold went up 8.9 million to 16.1 million. Payroll and related expenses went up from 23.9 to 31.7 million. Profitability went up 18.4 million to 22.7. In terms of Coast for Opera, it's biggest in Russian, the US, and China.
All in all, it sounds like 2014 was a pretty good year. And they have a lot of endeavors going on, internationally. Far more than just Russia. Is it time to buy the stock?
No wonder Discover is in 20 languages. -
stng last edited by
BTW, Russia was one of the largest market of desktop-based Opera (when it approached up to ~30% market share in 2008/09)
Todays statistics (percentage in Opera browsers group):
Opera 12 - 52,95%
Opera 11 - 3,60%
=56.6%
Opera 21 - 24,5%
Opera 20 - 11,48%
=36%
Source: http://top.mail.ru/browsers?id=250&ago=1#sids=chrome,mob,firefox,opera,msie&percent=0
- Mail.ru is a second popular web-site in Russian segment.
The real Opera browser is still more popular than Opera's chromium's derivation in this region. Also, there is interesting fact that Yandexbrowser (yet another clone) is more popular than Opera Blink, but less popular than aging Presto.
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lem729 last edited by
On what is the market, an interesting interview on Chromium-Blink, the movement of Presto users to Blink with a focus on Opera TV.
http://www.operasoftware.com/blog/opera-products/chromiumblink-opera-tv
And something on the Opera TV browser, which brings the full world of browsing to your connected TV. It would seem that they have in mind long-term that this browser would be based on Chromium-Blink, not Presto.
http://www.operasoftware.com/products/tv-browser
That could be useful. I don't see that in the US on our Roku, Chromium, Apple TV products. Google TV tried to do that in a partnership, I think, with Sony (with a large keyboard) but it didn't take off.
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Deleted User last edited by
The real Opera browser is still more popular than Opera's chromium's derivation in this region. Also, there is interesting fact that Yandexbrowser (yet another clone) is more popular than Opera Blink, but less popular than aging Presto.
This statistic will not hold much longer as the so-called "real" Opera browser becomes slow, unwieldy, insecure, out-dated and incompatible with most websites. I would certainly be hesitant to use it much longer. Its days are definitely coming to an end. Time for "real" Opera lovers to move on to the new Opera or find another browser and cut the whining.
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lem729 last edited by
Also, there is interesting fact that Yandexbrowser (yet another clone) is more popular than Opera Blink,[in Russia] but less popular than aging Presto.>
But then again, Yandex uses the Blink layout engine and is based on the Chromium open source project. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yandex_Browser)If you add up the two blinkist camps
they, perhaps, surpass the Prestoists -- even in Russia.
