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Let's stop this war

  • Hay, it keeps it at the top of the list, you wouldnt want it all the way on the bottom or page 2 would you ?

  • WTF!!!!
    Always people hijacking all threads with anger about new Opera, with dumb wishes about gifting Operas source code and browser patents to OpenSource!

    My hint 4 u: Discuss such nonsense in the Lounge at https://forums.opera.com/category/26/lounge

    PLEASE!
    If you want to troll, get an account at 4chan. There you can fullfill all your strange wishes.

    =:(

  • Lets see the bright side - do you know another piece of software where people still complaining about there discontinuation after now nearly a year ?

    Must have been a very good software with no alternatives 😉

  • Good point. And the new product is also very very good. It's just different pluses and minuses compared to the old product. Opera is a talented company. The little engine that could . . . Give the new browser a chance, findkfn . . . 🙂

  • Ah, I see the rabble is out and about spreading lies, distortions and misinformation. One has to wonder why they continue to haunt a place they appear to hate so vehemently. Opera Presto is dead in terms of future development. Opera Blink is the new Opera. DEAL WITH IT.
    `Lueshino

    This is a prime example of missing the point. The Thread's name is "Let's Stop this War" yet calling people you disagree with rabble is not going to help that cause, as a matter of fact it very well could inflame the problem. Equally you state that they are spreading lies, distortions, and misinformation, yet offer no corrections or state what aspects of where the claims are false while providing citations to the accurate information. Also the Prestovists or old power users, do not hate Opera if they did then they would just walk already. It is simply that they loved Opera when it was Presto, and would like to see what they loved return in one fashion or another.

    @Ersi

    I think in general terms the Widgets failed to gain traction and a mass following of development from the user base. I could of course be incorrect about the three features your mentioning as they were not features I used; however I believe that when they phased out Widgets they implemented extensions at about the same time. As for Unite I believe they only changed its name or Turbo or possibly Dragonfly ? As for voice I remember its addition but do not recall it being functional the few times I attempted to play with it. Either or you have at least started something I was hoping someone would do which is helping to list all features of the Presto versions of Opera. As I think that with a viable list of all the power features found in Presto, Lem729 could potentially offer a list of extensions that may be able to at least mimic those features for 20 and help calm some of the anger and disappointment due to the loss of those native features.

  • @Lem729
    Sorry your my current extension Guru, so I may have just signed you up for a horribly tedious task.

  • LOL... Let's see - according to the dictionary rabble means a: mob, crowd, throng, gang, swarm, horde, pack, mass and generally angry can be added as an appropriate adjective. Yes, indeed... we have among us a rabble who refuse to listen and simply whine on and on as though their whining will produce positive results. It won't. The so-called War is non-existent. Well, it exists insofar as there is disagreement between two groups but that is hardly a war. However, since the disagreement does exist (and in some cases it's downright nasty from the whining group), then here's a news flash for that gang. The War, as it were, is over. You've lost. Presto will not continue to be developed. Can you grasp that fact? Evidently while you enjoy likening yourselves to a power group of users, those who continue to complain and whine the loudest have difficulty grasping simple facts. So allow me to offer some constructive advice:

    • Continue to use whatever version of Opera Presto you currently use and be content
    • Install Opera 20+ alongside your current browser and watch its development with an OPEN MIND
    • Find an alternate browser and be content
    • Stop your whining, backbiting, blaming, prognosticating and just generally being tiresome trolls

    There you go. And I won't even charge you for this advice. BTW... Opera 20 is awesome.

  • Did this thread make it to page 2 yet ? Damn it's still the first one listed at the top 😞

  • Did this thread make it to page 2 yet ?

    I have to admit to enjoying your sense of humor. In real life, I think we could sit down, have a beer and enjoy a few laughs. 🙂

  • Yeah a beer sound good, good idea Leushino 🙂

  • A good beer and some reading in this forum and the blog is sometimes all you need to have some fun 🙂

    Im feeling back in the old Amiga vs Atari days....

  • Im feeling back in the old Amiga vs Atari days....

    Amiga was best, and you know it. 😃

  • I wish I still had my Commodore Amiga 2000. That was my first real computer (I'm not counting my sisters TRS-80, or the Commodore 64 I had), and the one I have the most fond memories of. I wouldn't trade it for what I have right now, but I would definitely love to fire it up again, and play some of the old classic games I had on it.

  • Amiga was best, and you know it. 😃

    Of course it was !!!

  • LOL, it got off the topic

  • After -- burp -- the beers and camaraderie, we can go back to hurling hand grenades. @nighmaresoul. What a hoot!

  • LOL... Let's see - according to the dictionary rabble means a: mob, crowd, throng, gang, swarm, horde, pack, mass and generally angry can be added as an appropriate adjective. Yes, indeed... we have among us a rabble who refuse to listen and simply whine on and on as though their whining will produce positive results. It won't. The so-called War is non-existent. Well, it exists insofar as there is disagreement between two groups but that is hardly a war. However, since the disagreement does exist (and in some cases it's downright nasty from the whining group), then here's a news flash for that gang. The War, as it were, is over. You've lost. Presto will not continue to be developed. Can you grasp that fact? Evidently while you enjoy likening yourselves to a power group of users, those who continue to complain and whine the loudest have difficulty grasping simple facts. So allow me to offer some constructive advice:

    Continue to use whatever version of Opera Presto you currently use and be content
    Install Opera 20+ alongside your current browser and watch its development with an OPEN MIND
    Find an alternate browser and be content
    Stop your whining, backbiting, blaming, prognosticating and just generally being tiresome trolls

    There you go. And I won't even charge you for this advice. BTW... Opera 20 is awesome.

    @Leushino, Actually that would be a thesaurus your quoting. The Dictionary would state the definition of Rabble like this "rabble noun

    1.disorderly crowd; mob.

    2.the rabble, the lower classes; the common people"

    Which to call anyone who holds a differing opinion as a lower class is insulting. As for a mob it has a similarly less glorified definitions that are often the main interpretation to native speakers of the language. As for the term war, I will give you that this is not a war by common definition so much as a disagreement that leads to the concept of a flame-war upon the forums. Again however you are adding to the problem yet again by blaming the Prestovists, and then also calling them trolls. Although your first, and second pieces of advice are good,the third is a good portion of the aim of posts where the flame-wars have erupted. The Forth however isn't terribly helpful. Oh well..

    Anyhow I'll take a Guinness, my old Amiga 1200..Hooray for Bards Tales.

  • @nightmaresoul

    I think in general terms the Widgets failed to gain traction and a mass following of development from the user base. I could of course be incorrect about the three features your mentioning as they were not features I used; however I believe that when they phased out Widgets they implemented extensions at about the same time. As for Unite I believe they only changed its name or Turbo or possibly Dragonfly ? As for voice I remember its addition but do not recall it being functional the few times I attempted to play with it.

    Voice didn't work for me either when it was first released, but there was improvement and I actually had it read to me at least one full book length of text. I used it every once in a while.

    Unite had nothing to do with Turbo or Dragonfly. Unite was a sharing server with the ability to connect peer to peer. It had a few apps inbuilt, and users quickly built and shared more apps.

    Wiedgets did not fail in any way. They had a large following among the user base and their discontinuation was a sore disappointment. The developers of widgets were, again users themselves. Opera thrived on user activism. Userjs was developed and shared by users. Skins were also developed and shared by users. Version 12 broke skins too.

    Version 12 was a humiliating punch in the face of widget, skin, and Unite developers - who were all users doing free work. The company turned its back to voluntary activists who had been the cream of web-browsing world. And they also deleted their work and the wealth of knowledge that was in the old forums, blogs, widget, skins, unite, setup and userjs sharing sites.

    It takes a pretty profound lack of conscience to do that. This company managed to pull it off.

  • my old Amiga 1200..

    I still have mine... somewhere. I may still even have my A500plus too. My, those were the days...

  • ... Explain Chrome, MSIE, Firefox, UC Browser, Maxton, Dolphin then. Every browser is free, that's just the way it works. The fact that an organization has to find some way around it to make money, is hardly my problem. ...
    Opera has created an adience of powerusers for itself, and by crippling the browser they've essentially said "bye bye" to their powerusers, because quite frankly Opera 13 and later are a ... disgrace to any poweruser. Opera might not realize that adding features doesn't inhibit the use by novice users, and Opera certainly doesn't realize that powerusers sometimes have an audience of their own to persuade into using Opera. This has stopped, of course.

    But the fact is that it is your problem. Those other browsers make their creators revenue off of either the enhancement they provide to other cash-generating services offered by the browser creators or directly via "rent" revenue from click-counts and favored browser placements... the greater the browser market share, the greater the revenue that comes in. And that broad market out there, quite frankly, doesn't in the main give a flying care about many of the "features" that expert/loyal users (myself included) want in a browser. That's the problem. The pie that browser creators must compete for to grow revenue is made up largely of unsophisticated users with few complex configurability or in-depth feature demands - they want it to be fast, pretty, and reliable with a few "clever" and "neat" features. But those of us who use browsers as a tool demand in-depth configurability and multiple accessible settings and features, and it costs browser makers money/resources to include the options to control those... money for things the mass market cares little about.

    Put another way, as an example, it costs little or nothing up front to leave bookmarking out of a new browser design; on the other hand, it costs real money to reliably put a bookmarks manager, bookmarks display methodology, integration with browser control and operation philosophy, bookmark search capability, bookmark editing, etc into the browser. And that money must be spent even if the resulting feature is hidden behind an options button or buried within an options menu so as not to make the browser appear too complex to those in the mass market. What governs the business decision is whether the creators believe the revenue lost by alientating expert/loyal users from not including bookmarks will be far more made up by the new users (and revenue) gained from making the browser more appealing in other ways to the mass-market users out there who care little about bookmarks. My real point here is that decision is based on what the creators believe about the market, not whether or not that ends up being an accurate market assessment as events unfold.

    For a long time, Opera focused on configurability, detailed features, and tons of settings, and we saw the results unfold in the marvelous tool that was Presto Opera. Yet Opera's desktop market share never "took off" and their revenue return was disappointing. There may have been many reasons for that, but Opera has come to believe they spent too much development time lost in the details and their own rendering engine instead of chasing the larger market and its user interests. Asking Opera to return to a Presto-style highly configurable browser, in their view, is asking them to be content to never move their market share above that represented by a handful of dedicated expert/loyal users.

    Certainly, there are more factors in the Blink decision than just these elements, but as I stated earlier, I believe the business side of things has played a much larger role than we as expert/loyal users realize... and I feel it important to keep the business aspect clearly in sight. We may not like it, but we cannot ignore it.

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