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  • If stuff is removed based on how many people are using it, why not remove the Opera as a whole? I mean, it's a real minority on the browser market. Makes sense by going by that ideology.

  • April Fool's day:)

  • April Fool's day:)

    In which solar system ?.

  • @awzx
    You said: "Are you referring to the absence [in Opera 20] of the bookmarks manager and site settings, as well as to the meager customization options, even in comparison with Chrome?"

    -- There are lots of bookmark managers extensions in the Chrome and Opera stores. And reasonable ones. Take your pick. Also, there is an abundance of riches in bookmarking in Opera 20, including a speed dial, far better than any other browser has on the internet. Eat your heart out, Firefox, Chrome, or IE. It's like wow, psychedelic, with folders/speed dials within it. If you like a Speed Dial, I think you cannot NOT be drawn to Opera 20.

    As for bookmarking, Opera 20 has, in addition to the awesome speed dial, Personal Bookmark bars, bookmarking extensions, like Tidy Bookmarks or Chrookmarks. There's Stash, too, (which also can fill certain bookmarking needs). So please, none of this lamenting about bookmarks. I'll grant you that customizaiton is not the same as with Opera 12.17, but -- on the positive side -- there is a much greater universe of extensions from which Opera 20 can benefit. If you love extensions, the vast majority of prospective users will very much like Opera 20, which is significantly faster than Opera 12.17. In sum, I find Opera 20 is sleek, minimalist, and a lot of fun to use.

    Let me make clear, though, I am happy about the Opera 12.17 update. I think it's great that Opera provides two different browsers that have different strengths, that appeal to different types of users. While I never used all of Opera 12.17's rich feature set, I did use, and very much enjoy, some, and hope that some day some of the features -- either through extension or otherwise -- will find their way to the new Opera.

  • @lem729

    If you love extensions...
    Which I dont. Extensions are weakspot. Reason why use opera 12 was to NOT to have to use any additional extensions. The way to completely miss their own browsers strong points. Well done. Now they can collect Chrome leftovers...

  • @neoworm

    I said there were two different types of users. And they have in some regards, opposite desires. ("Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet.") I have no doubt than one type of user will prefer 12.17. And I think it's great that Opera has two products, and tries -- at least by still having the Presto product available (and with security updates) -- to meet needs of both users.

    For me, I don't want all type of customization in the main browser, because in the end, it slows it down, makes it unwieldy. If the features come through extension, you can chose to use them, or chose not to. That gives everyone a choice. But why do I have to have the browser itself loaded down/and slowed down with features I don't use. Anyway, lol, I did use some of the features in 12.17, and its predecessors, so I'm happy about today's update. It's too bad Opera isn't big and strong enough to produce and really develop (with substantive updates) both products. But this is the real world, not pie-in-the- sky fantasyland, and sometimes that isn't possible.

  • I just tested 12.17.
    It's same defective release as 12.16. Cookies support has broken, rendering bugs... 12.14 is a version of my choice.

    They're security fixes and another indication that the Opera Team care about its user base.

    Too bad they don't care about quality control anymore :(. At least for Opera Presto browser.

    As you know, Opera Presto will only receive security updates. No other bugs will be fixed.

  • It's becoming increasingly tiresome to try and respond respectfully to these Opera bashers. First off we have the childish use of the word Chopera. There is NO browser by such a moniker other than your fevered minds so please... DEAL with the real world and not one of your own making. Secondly, you can hold on to Opera Presto for the foreseeable future now that the Opera team have updated the security so be happy. Go browse to your hearts' content and be happy. Why hang about here looking for every opportunity to make trouble? Or is this what can be expected of the so-called power-users: that they are essentially troublemakers? You like your Opera Presto which comes complete with everything like a Swiss Army knife and without the need for any extensions. Good for you. Be happy, I know I am with Opera 20. I apply only those extensions that I need and that suits me just fine. I enjoy its speed. I enjoy its compatibility. I enjoy the Stash, Speed Dial and Discover features. I enjoy the FACT that development will continue whereas that is not the case with the former browser which is now dead as far as future development is concerned. I enjoy the clean look of the browser. All in all... Opera has done a marvelous job in the past year and I look forward with anticipation to the coming year. The only dismal spot in this is the continued whining and crying from the Presto crowd.

  • Yes, use insecure old software like Opera 12.14.

    Well, if the person knows and accepts the riskies, i don't see a problem.

  • It would be useful if Opera would publish a changelog for 12.17, though; in fact, it appears 12.16 also has never had a changelog published yet at http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/windows/ ( or at least a brief "official" explanation of how it came to replace 12.15 and why). Issuing versions without changelogs is not a good practice.

  • It would be useful if Opera would publish a changelog for 12.17

    Probably when it is officialy released.

    it appears 12.16 also has never had a changelog published yet

    http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unified/1216/

  • As you know, Opera Presto will only receive security updates. No other bugs will be fixed.

    You didn't understand correctly. Since version 12.15(the first one version after Presto's core team dismissal), there are new bugs introduced with each security update. When it's compared with 12.14, web-site compatibility worsening each time after an update. What has been broken in 12.17? Who knowns...

  • @lem729

    For a slick and fast browser you have Chrome. People who wanted fast browser without any additional features switched from Opera long time ago, even before version 12. Yet Opera decided to make ANOTHER Chrome clone. Thats stupid. Its throwing away their userbase.
    And I would actually be ok with their decision to cut some features for some time to make the browser better, but they completely changed their manifesto. They dont want to make a better Opera 12 with all the features, they want to make a slick modern browser that is fast and shit. I dont care, I want to use it, not run speed benchmarks on it. I want feature complete browser. For users who want slick bare bones browser there already is Chrome. Its there for some time already. These users are already gone. Yet Opera team made a redundant product and year after they stil didnt made it any better.

  • As you know, Opera Presto will only receive security updates. No other bugs will be fixed.

    12.17 is only released for Windows. Heartbleed affected OpenSSL, i.e. all platforms, Win, Mac, Linux. Ergo: 12.17 fixed nothing. Particularly without changelog and official announcement there's no saying if it fixes anything or only makes things worse.

  • 12.17 is only released for Windows. Heartbleed affected OpenSSL, i.e. all platforms, Win, Mac, Linux. Ergo: 12.17 fixed nothing.

    Opera browser wasn't affected by Heartbleed.
    But heartbleed problem affected Opera's autoupdater application.
    Probably this update fixes autoupdater.

  • As you know, Opera Presto will only receive security updates. No other bugs will be fixed.

    12.17 is only released for Windows. Heartbleed affected OpenSSL, i.e. all platforms, Win, Mac, Linux. Ergo: 12.17 fixed nothing. Particularly without changelog and official announcement there's no saying if it fixes anything or only makes things worse.

    There is no relation to heartbleed as Opera seems to not be affected by that issue, except for the autoupdater for Windows: http://blogs.opera.com/security/2014/04/heartbleed-heartaches/

  • Too sad I can't +1/-1 some posts. As this topic became just butting (or tug-of-war), I'll post my part.

    leushino:

    DEAL with the real world and not one of your own making.

    see, clear naming is something that is required for logical thinking. Chopera (or Webkit Opera, or whatever you call it) is definitely different product, and it should not be called like like previous one. And renaming prevoius one, after using its name for years, is quite confusing, that's why oldfags (I'm one too, so no offense) leave "Opera" name for old (Presto, as you call it) Opera, and give a new name to newer one.

    Go browse to your hearts' content and be happy.

    don't tell us what to do, and we won't tell you where to go.

    Why hang about here looking for every opportunity to make trouble? Or is this what can be expected of the so-called power-users: that they are essentially troublemakers?

    The only dismal spot in this is the continued whining and crying from the Presto crowd.

    If you read Seth (or other marketers), you know, that it's power users who make a choice or shall be conveinced.

    And whoever choosed Presto over other browsers (like extensions-powered Firefox or "one for all" UI of Chrome or Safari), had their reasons (one .ini to rule them all).

    While Presto developed, they had hopes that it will eventually grow up to parrallel scripts loading, and beat others. Once Opera team dimissed Presto, all hopes lost, only hatered and bile left.

    This is what THEY got. Now THEY will DEAL with it.
    And don't call that a trouble, as it isn't.

    Now Opera left with sparse newfags and old noob-users who really don't need bookmarks (as example, but not primarily) and their opinion is ignored by the crowd.
    And all old Opera fans who hate new Opera and wish it dead, and loathingly use some another browser (or even new Opera).

    Of course, there are exceptions. True believers, Opera employees, etc. How big is that percentage?

    This is exactly what called "Opera is unneeded".

    P.S. Everything you have in new Opera, you can get in Chrome or Firefox with extensions. But neither Chrome nor Firefox fired their fans yet (though Firefox new UI was questionable at least).

  • As you know, Opera Presto will only receive security updates. No other bugs will be fixed.

    12.17 is only released for Windows. Heartbleed affected OpenSSL, i.e. all platforms, Win, Mac, Linux. Ergo: 12.17 fixed nothing. Particularly without changelog and official announcement there's no saying if it fixes anything or only makes things worse.

    There is no relation to heartbleed as Opera seems to not be affected by that issue, except for the autoupdater for Windows: http://blogs.opera.com/security/2014/04/heartbleed-heartaches/

    See now how a changelog would matter? The company has become so dyscommunicative that it's quite a ridiculous stretch to say they care about their products and users.

  • April Fool's day:)

    April Fool's year, rather.

    Really, I know I'm saying the same thing over and over again, but Opera Software can't really convince me that progress is happening and that I should continue using its new products. It seems like user feedback is not really in esteem - it took three or four versions to come up with a half-baked Bookmarks implementation that's not even nearly as powerful as it is in Opera 12. It's like they took statistics from this kind of users that probably never touched the settings and could easily go with any other browser and that would only see that the browser's icon is different.
    What happened to all the power to customization? What happened to the one-gesture or one-key "make-me-a-breakfast"? Heck, I can't even have "Gesture Up" to reload the page any more, and it's not like this haven't been asked for.

    It seems I'm sticking with Opera 12 for a while and jumping to, say, Sleipnir at some point.

  • No changelog? Strange. I came here looking for it but there doesn't seem to be any even in depths of this place, not to mention accessible places that are used by 95% of people.

    Not going to look a gifted horse in its mouth, though. Thanks, devs, for the update, even though I don't know what it did. Nothing seems to have change so i'll assume that it's security-related.

    When you go under, please make Opera Presto open source. You'll be bankrupt anyway and the community will make magic with it. I'm sure of that.