how does opera know my logins

A Former User

hi
Just installed Opera for developer 38.0 for the first time.
Up to now I have used mostly Firefox, and sometimes chrome.

Now I started to use Opera.
I see that, many of the sites that needs my authentication (e.g Yahoo), already identify me, even-though it is the first time i use Opera.

Can someone please explain this to me.

tx

sgunhouse

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer

Opera will read the logins from whatever was your previous default browser if it can as well as your bookmarks.

A Former User

I thought about that.
My default browser was firefox, but I use Mozila Master Password, so I would not expect Opera to be able to read them. Isn't it?

For chrome - I made a test.
Open same site on chrome and opera.
loggedin, in in Chrome.
I was still logged out in Opera.

A Former User

anyone?

lando242

lando242

Opera only imports your automatically passwords once. So any changes you made in Chrome after the fact would not have come over.

A Former User

Opera only imports your automatically passwords once. So any changes you made in Chrome after the fact would not have come over.

OK.
But still I do not understand how most (not all...) users and passwords were imported as I use Firefox Master password, i.e it supposed to protect them from exactly this scenario.

Is it possible that it took them from chrome, although chrome is not my default browser?
And why did it happen with asking me?

lando242

lando242

It does ask you. There is a checkbox in the Opera installer that specifically asks if you want it to import stuff. This is why you should always pay attention when installing an application. You got some passwords imported, no big deal. I've seen malware installations that have resulted in complete data loss and the need to format the HD and reinstall the OS. All because someone left a box checked and when installing a completely legitimate program that had a bad piggyback program attached to it. Most of the time its middle of the road stuff. Java updaters has been recently either installing Google Chrome or setting your homepage to Yahoo and the latter has caught a number of our clients by surprise.

leocg

leocg Moderator Volunteer

Is it possible that it took them from chrome, although chrome is not my default browser?

Not automatically AFAIK. Opera only imports data from default browser on install, to import from other browsers you need to do it manually.

OK.
But still I do not understand how most (not all...) users and passwords were imported as I use Firefox Master password, i.e it supposed to protect them from exactly this scenario.

Maybe you should ask Mozilla about that?

Try changing your master password om Firefox and then do a new Opera standalone installation to check if it still imports your passwords from FF.
If it does, then it seems that master password doesn't avoid your data from being imported into other browsers.

crazy-harry

crazy-harry

It does ask you. There is a checkbox in the Opera installer that specifically asks if you want it to import stuff. This is why you should always pay attention when installing an application. You got some passwords imported, no big deal. I've seen malware installations that have resulted in complete data loss and the need to format the HD and reinstall the OS. All because someone left a box checked and when installing a completely legitimate program that had a bad piggyback program attached to it. Most of the time its middle of the road stuff. Java updaters has been recently either installing Google Chrome or setting your homepage to Yahoo and the latter has caught a number of our clients by surprise.

No, it doesn't ask you by default.
I had nearly the same issue as the topic starter, I wanted to be logged in 2 different accounts on one website. And I was sure that I didn't come across this question, or the question for the install location. So after your comment, I decided to uninstall completely and install again.
And not surprisingly, the questions are hidden behind an options button. This is very deceitful and very disappointing for a browser which has a better image for privacy than Google Chrome, but apparently that is undeserved.

Not only did Opera import the settings but they kept working cross-browser. When I logged out in Opera, I was on the same website logged out in Firefox. That is absolutely ridiculous behavior!
Even if the setting was not hidden, it should be an opt-in, not an opt-out. And it should be very clearly explained that it keeps working cross-browser.

A very very disappointing first impression with this browser...

lando242

lando242

And not surprisingly, the questions are hidden behind an options button.

But they are there just like we said they would be. They aren't going to hit you with every single thing that they can do. That installer is targeted at your average Joe blow users that doesn't even know what a bookmark is, let alone the definition of some foreign sound work like 'import' that they have only ever seen applied to cars and beer.

privacy

I do not think it means what you think it means. Opera never sees the contends of your password file. How is it a privacy violation if the only person to ever view it is you? Can you violate your own privacy?

Not only did Opera import the settings but they kept working cross-browser. When I logged out in Opera, I was on the same website logged out in Firefox.

You just made two contrary statements. Was Opera effecting what was going on in Firefox or not? Seeing as how they are completely unrelated problems I don't see how being logged in to a pertiulare website in Firefox would have any effect on Opera or vise versa.

sgunhouse

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer

Some websites only allow one login per identity. That is, if you log in with a different browser or device, any other browsers get logged out.

crazy-harry

crazy-harry

But they are there just like we said they would be. They aren't going to hit you with every single thing that they can do. That installer is targeted at your average Joe blow users that doesn't even know what a bookmark is, let alone the definition of some foreign sound work like 'import' that they have only ever seen applied to cars and beer.

For years, installers have asked such questions, the frame of reference which is built over the years contains these questions to appear in the installation procedure. Hiding them reduces the user's control over their own computer.
It doesn't matter whether Joe Blow understands the questions, he will click through the default anyway. But hiding them behind a button hurts those who know how to answer the questions. And Joe Blow isn't using Opera, he uses whatever comes with his device, so targeting them with the installer is shooting the wrong target...

Certainly an option that takes over passwords and logged in sessions should be clearly visible. The option doesn't even clearly state what it's full capabilities are. With all my experience as an IT professional (decades), it wasn't even clear to me during the reinstall that the option would not only import passwords but also sessions and keeps doing that during use.
What also isn't clear to me, is that someone thought this was a good idea, and even less why someone tries to defend such obvious UX design error.

I do not think it means what you think it means. Opera never sees the contends of your password file. How is it a privacy violation if the only person to ever view it is you? Can you violate your own privacy?

Most computers have more than one user, so it may violate privacy because Opera is automatically logged into a website to which someone was logged in via another browser.

You just made two contrary statements. Was Opera effecting what was going on in Firefox or not? Seeing as how they are completely unrelated problems I don't see how being logged in to a pertiulare website in Firefox would have any effect on Opera or vise versa.

No it isn't contrary. I'll try to clarify:
I was logged into one account in firefox, and when I opened Opera, I was logged into that same account. I then logged out in Opera. Because being logged in on that site in Opera despite I never used Opera before raised already some suspicion with me of what was going on, I refreshed the site in Firefox. And that showed me as logged out on that site while I didn't log out in Firefox, only in Opera.
I of course tested further and logged in and out with various scenarios.

Some websites only allow one login per identity. That is, if you log in with a different browser or device, any other browsers get logged out.

I know, but this particular site allows multiple logins per identity and multiple identities logged in simultaneously from one computer.
It's also not only logging out, logging in via Opera logs you in in Firefox and vice versa.

blackbird71

blackbird71

But they are there just like we said they would be. They aren't going to hit you with every single thing that they can do. That installer is targeted at your average Joe blow users that doesn't even know what a bookmark is, let alone the definition of some foreign sound work like 'import' that they have only ever seen applied to cars and beer.

For years, installers have asked such questions, the frame of reference which is built over the years contains these questions to appear in the installation procedure. Hiding them reduces the user's control over their own computer.
It doesn't matter whether Joe Blow understands the questions, he will click through the default anyway. But hiding them behind a button hurts those who know how to answer the questions. And Joe Blow isn't using Opera, he uses whatever comes with his device, so targeting them with the installer is shooting the wrong target...
Certainly an option that takes over passwords and logged in sessions should be clearly visible. The option doesn't even clearly state what it's full capabilities are. With all my experience as an IT professional (decades), it wasn't even clear to me during the reinstall that the option would not only import passwords but also sessions and keeps doing that during use. ...

I beg to disagree. For years installers, particularly for "consumer-oriented" software, have indeed hidden many such settings behind initial installer buttons labeled 'Advanced', 'Custom', 'Options', 'Other', 'Special' or a variety of alternate terms. While that practice has increased in recent years, it is by no means a sudden-onset issue unique to Opera.

There was a time many years back when virtually all software installers had tables of settings or sequential installation choices that a user had to wade through, a kind of heritage of the many things that had to by done to a DOS config.sys file to make new software work. But that practice began seriously declining during the WinXP days and has only accelerated since. Those of us who have lived through most or all of the evolution of personal computers, perhaps 'cutting our teeth' for years on command-language control of such systems, tend to have our thinking and our orientation dominated by that kind of detail-focused, highly-configurable legacy we've experienced. But those days are not these days.

While some people may simply use a computer as an Internet appliance with whatever browser came pre-installed, many other people occupy the next slightly deeper 'techno-layer' and will seek to install an alternate browser, perhaps the same one that's on their mobile device - but they still expect that browser to be virtually self-configuring, no user installation settings required. Sad but true nonetheless, this is an era of "no user serviceable parts inside", whether the products are automobiles, TV sets, or computers. Companies wishing to accumulate a significant share of their product markets ignore this current customer expectation at their peril. And so product designs, installation/setup, operating controls, and maintenance details have become simplistic, at times in the extreme. Those of us who are much more technical in how we operate a computer or software are now decidedly in the minority, and having expectations that consumer-oriented software will default in our direction is an exercise in futility.

... I was logged into one account in firefox, and when I opened Opera, I was logged into that same account. I then logged out in Opera. Because being logged in on that site in Opera despite I never used Opera before raised already some suspicion with me of what was going on, I refreshed the site in Firefox. And that showed me as logged out on that site while I didn't log out in Firefox, only in Opera. I of course tested further and logged in and out with various scenarios.
...
It's also not only logging out, logging in via Opera logs you in in Firefox and vice versa.

The cross-login/logout interactions you describe don't make sense as a browser issue, per se; that's not how the software ought to be working. Firefox and Opera are both independent programs and quite different in their technology and file structures. Once a browser installation and importation have completed, each browser stands ignorant and independent of both the other software and the data/sessions records of that other browser; that is, there is no ongoing interaction between the browsers themselves or their files. On the other hand, what a website does with a user running browsers with similar session setups, resulting cookies, and log-in data (IP, etc) may be another story entirely, depending on how they maintain log-in persistence or control for their users.

A Former User

@blackbird71 Fast forward 3 years and im facing the issue reported by the OP.

Its ridiculous to have such settings as default period.
One thing is to import bookmarks. Other thing is to import my credential in order to give me a chance to easily starting a new session;

Now importing my credentials and creating a session on my behalf just because i installed it sneaky and invasive, and on top of that it decides to manage my sessions across all browsers, i logout from Opera and it also logs me out on chrome, its retarded to say the least.

I used to have high regards for opera but all respect i had is dead now, i cant entertain this crap. Its way too invasive, im ditiching this browser and not looking back.

sgunhouse

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer

It doesn't decide anything about your session. If you allow it to import cookies, then it will be using the same session as your other browser, and hence when you close that session in Opera it will be closed in the other browser (and vice versa). The next time you log in (in either browser) will be a different session and hence not linked to the other browser.