Stop whining people!
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tuliogs last edited by
Why does this topic sound like defending 2-color icons to graphic artists (hello Windows 8)? From my understanding, OP should then be using Lynx, it's the most simplified interface I've ever seen.
Speaking seriously though, if one wants a bare-minimalistic, KISS, noob-oriented browser, how many options do you need? 20? You've got that long ago. Now, echoing other users, what really gives Opera a clear edge over most of them? What makes it stand out?
Now how many browsers are targeted to Internet power-users that know precisely what and why they're doing? I know only two: Opera 12.x and older, or extension-loaded, fully crapped-Firefox. Opera had been for long a reference for webdesigners that really understood HTML and CSS; it's gone for about a year, since Presto started lagging behind on both arenas, so I totally understand the choice of abandoning Presto and moving on to another engine.
What I can't understand, though, is how they totally ignore what's their target audience. If I want a simple browser, there's a ton already there, even other generic Chromes - but I guess all have bookmarks, so it may be too complicated or cramped for the new Opera lovers. For historic Opera, though, many users are experienced dawgs who do stuff all other browsers don't handle properly - or simply not at all - and that is their "workflow". I, for one, am on it since Opera 5 was launched (still paid), and stay with 12.16 because I won't spread all my notes and bookmarks across hundreds of text files, synchronized via Dropbox (or insert-here-your-dream-sync-option). It's plain stupid.
I may not customize my browser often, but I do it on every new computer in 5 minutes (and I change computers quite often), but I use those customizations EVERY DAY. Otherwise, I'd be using another browser. Why is it hard to understand? On opera 15, I gave up after 30 minutes trying to search a bunch of extensions that would give me similar functionalities. And my experience with another once-great software that opted to go stupid bare-simple, Thunderbird, is that for every version update I have to wait a few weeks before all my extensions get updated, so I admit I didn't even try it with Opera.
So I perfectly understand how the new Opera is perfect for my granny's coiffeuse's workflow, or my 6yr nephew that only uses it for Facebook and web games, but for a technical user who's usually among 20+ tabs, 2 windows, and using 2-3 sessions per month, usually switching between tabs tens of times per day, it's much of a drag. And if I can't even sync notes and bookmarks between my desktops and notebooks (personal and professional) in a practical way - specially because there's no bookmarks anymore - then I have absolutely no use for this new browser, and that's why I stick with 12.16 even with its memory appetite and 4-5 crashes per day (don't mind, that's why auto-saved sessions and 8GB RAM exist).
I actually wouldn't even mind the lack of Link, if I could at least sync only 3-4 .adr files (not hundreds) via Dropbox, Bluetooth, pen-drive, diskette, whatever; it's not that much work. But now I don't even have the option to it, and what some people don't seem to get is that Opera has always been precisely about options. I have the option to disable mouse gestures. I have the option to hit F4 and hide the sidebar. As well as I have the option to show a full status bar at the bottom. And I sure do all when I so wish, depending on my needs. As well as I can navigate (fast) through all of the darn pages and tabs without ever touching the mouse or screen via Shift-arrows, or whatever other key would fit me - if I really want to customize it. Taking that away is akin to abolishing extensions would be for Firefox users.
Lastly, if Opera doesn't want to maintain Presto and it has a direct impact over the whole browser, as its interface is heavily based on its engine, there's still the option of making it open-source, even partially. You can still protect (by not disclosing) relevant parts of the code and even create your own license, it'd still be a lot better, more fair and surely less dangerous than neglecting all its user base. Or, at least, refrain from doing the big jump until you have a decent product to show - which, as I understand, is not yet the case. The way it is now, Opera will need to start entirely anew, attracting new users while dumping most of the old ones (which were never as many as IE or FF, but surely more loyal and not just a few), without even offering a clear differential over its competitors - which now include the likes of Maxthon simply because of lack of options.
I, for one, am looking for a replacement. Repeating myself, my "best" option seems to be Firefox with at least 10 extensions, as much as it kind of terrifies me.
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Deleted User last edited by
Just take an example of Windows 8. Microsoft removed the Start Button, with fancy Metro interface and see the user's outrage. That one over smart move by Microsoft has affected their sales and thus the revenue.
Had Opera been a trialware / shareware, the company would have incurred huge losses by now.
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Deleted User last edited by
Stash
Tabs Hibernation
Lazy Session Load
Hung Plugin MonitorThe Stash offers nothing you couldn't achieve just as well with bookmarks and sessions in Presto Opera, minus the screen shots.
What is "Lazy Session Load" supposed to mean? Sessions as such don't exist anymore in Opera Blink. Currently open tabs can be saved only as a group of Speed Dial entries.
Presto has the start-up options "Continue from last time" and "Continue from saved sessions". That's certainly no less useful than the 15+ setting "Open a specific page or set of pages".
Individual processes for tabs - if that is what you call "tabs hibernation" - comes at the price of considerably increased RAM and CPU usage. Or do you mean pinned tabs? Presto Opera has them already.
And more
Not "more", but a whole lot less. -
ramtodatry last edited by
The NEW Opera is a much better product than 12.16, except for the missing features/functionality. Software companies never understand that you cannot take functionality out that Users use a lot (Like the missing toolbar in Windows 7 vs XP)
I started using Opera Next a few months ago, and have gradually started to like it. Today I use it for about 90% of my work. I would give it a B+. It is definitely faster to load and unload, and to access web-pages and email, etc. I have not had any problems or crashes - as my Windows 7 x64 Notebook is setup like a TANK, and is totally up to date - without any garbage.
STOP GRIPING about the Chrome Engine.
Chrome Engine + ALL Opera Features = A GREAT PRODUCT.
I still have 12.16, that I HAVE TO USE the remaining 10% of time - which is still slow.
Things that I miss the most, and I am eagerly waiting for from the Opera Desktop Team are:
- The old Bookmarks - I have in excess of 8000+ bookmarks, as I am a technophile and a researcher,
- Old Tab Order, (saw it in experimental stuff, but do not want to mess with it - no time, no patience),
- An option similar to "Windows" to view the details of the open Tabs,
- The 'Key" icon to enter saved passwords - not so much, but do not like the lack of security without a "Master Password",
- RSS Feeds - can Opera make this into an extension, for those who need. I do not need the mail function - as I use web-based gmail,
- Synchronize still sucks big time - was never fixed in v12.xx, was working "sort of" in v11.xx. Everything used to work except Bookmarks.
If Opera feels that Bookmarks and RSS feeds bloat the product they should release them as extensions - for users who NEED them.
Other than that, I use a few extensions to get my job done. No other customizations.
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ramtodatry last edited by
Wanted to add one more item to my list of 6 above:
Double click to close a Tab.
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Deleted User last edited by
Hmmmmm... I stuck with Opera since the start and have been an advocate despite often having to resort to other browsers for certain site functionality. I love Opera. I haven't been whining and will let Opera go it's own way. I'll give this Opera Next a try but so far what I see is Chrome that retains the lack of compatibility of Opera. I still have to switch to Chrome, IE, Safari, or Firefox for certain sites.
So, for loyalty and history, I'll keep watch over the company and try Opera Next as my primary browser. I fear that time will forget the magic that was Opera. I loved that browsing experience. That tab system still makes me smile.
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lem729 last edited by
Well, I do like the Opera Extension, "Download Chrome Extension." With it, you can use any extension in the Chrome store. Perhaps, a few missing customization features can be found there. I mean, the glass is either half empty
or it's half full. I'm starting to use Opera 20 more. -
pjk0 last edited by
irony - whining about how other people whine
Exactly.
And Opera 2x is a simplistic toy for simpletons. That's as clearly as I can put it.
And after this highly-touted paradigm shift with the new rendering/script engine - Opera marketshare is still virtually invisible.
Yep, that worked-out real good.
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A Former User last edited by
Opera marketshare is still virtually invisible. Yep, that worked-out real good.
Yep, because the only point of the switch is to get a load of users. And of course, the prediction was the new Opera would take the crown of the market share table in less than a year. -
elvennoia last edited by
New Opera UI is not an Opera UI. just put your left thumb up and cover the top left corner of the browser, BOOM!, its chrome! wait, its FF! there is no unique distinction. you could say the icons are different and such, but in truth it's the same. I don't see the point of using opera if chrome is opera big bro.
To say that the new UI is optimized is BS. It's conformity. I am using latest opera next and try getting around my usually browsing, 80% of the time i was like "What!?", want to duplicate a site, i automatically move my mouse down then up, "What!?", found some ads intensive sites," hmm.. i need to open this link", right click context menu then "open", "what!?" there's no "open" menu? only got "open link in...". So technically i need to close previous tab each time to get to the links i need.
To more personal customization, i always have my tab bar bottom. i rarely touch navigation bar at all, F8 to type in address, mouse gesture to navigate like a boss, you can even minimize/maximize that certain tabs |http://i.imgur.com/Z1XTJmj.png| it's uses, i don't need to tell you, too many to count and the best part, just hold right click drag up then right release. If you want to login to any sites, already saved your login ID and passwords, just forward, don't need to find and click the login button. Bottom tab bar is way efficient, when you switched to other program and back to opera again, you always find you cursor cruising top bottom top again. It's not lazy it's efficiency, like mouse gesture is efficient, you can use navigation bar on the top, but mouse gesture there to navigate faster.
My point, we need to whine. Whining is essential for progress. Even if opera turn a blind eye there will be other people who wants to bring back opera to it's original form, maybe through open source.
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Deleted User last edited by
My point, we need to whine. Whining is essential for progress. Even if opera turn a blind eye there will be other people who wants to bring back opera to it's original form, maybe through open source.
if you want to whine, fine, just do it, but you do not need to say like "the new browser sucks", say what you want in the new version. As you can see, it is taking time to the devs realese a update, maybe it will have big changes now
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lem729 last edited by
I must admit I never used a lot of the super customization. I prefer to have the faster minimalist browser, that will be better able to access sites, with much greater availability of extensions. And I do like some of the new features -- Speed Dial (with folders), Discover, Off Road Mode . . . But no one is wrong about this, EXCEPT
sidneyneto is right: it would be nice if people stopped trashing Opera blink, and just talked about what they would most like added to it (the top priorities for them) (let's be real). A free browser can't be everything for everyone. And some of the priority needs may be able to come with extensions. Why not? And it's more likely to show up in the Opera store, if Opera does well with Opera blink, and holds or increases its following. Undermining and trashing Opera in the forum discourages new users before they've really tried the browser. And some of these new users may not even have a need for the super customization -- are just looking for a fast, attractive browser, and may be discouraged by some of the flaming in the forum here, and then will look for a browser elsewhere. And a less viable Opera -- which loses people like that -- will be in less of a position (financially or otherwise) to add customization features. A browser succeeding in holding and/or increasing its market share may be able to do more. -
Deleted User last edited by
Just for your information..
What you call "whining" can be a constructive activity.
It is perfectly alright to object to and complain about things you do not like.
Then, when you have done that, sometimes the only choice is to talk away (stop using it).
But there is no point in walking away before you have voiced your opinion.
More to the point: I said in a different topic:
Opera 12 is a Power Mac / Mac Pro.
Opera 2x is a Mac Mini.When Apple introduced the Mac Mini, did they call it "Mac Pro version 20"? No, of course not. And you can still buy a Mac Pro, next to a Mac Mini.
Point being that Opera Next and Opera Classic are two different products and deserve separate development, while using the same new rendering engine.
Opera Classic can use a user interface overhaul too, by the way. But Opera Classic is a power tool.
So what I'm saying is: instead of demanding power features for Opera Next, demand a revamp of Opera Classic.
And demand that they stop using the same version system for two different products. Opera Next is not Opera Classic version 20!!!!!
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Deleted User last edited by
Opera Classic, as you put it, will NOT be revamped. It's over and done with - dead in a word. There is no way the company is going to reverse its decision at this point so get used to that fact. The reality is this: Opera has retooled... many of the former devs are gone AND those who have remained have either been reassigned OR were behind the change in the first place. Remember what Haavard told us: this was NOT a business decision but rather one instituted by the developers themselves. As I see it, there are only a few reasonable paths to take:
- keep the older Presto version and run the newer version along with it (this would include making feature suggestions in the Suggestion forum as well as in the developer blogs
- throw your support solely behind the new version and try and duplicate as many missing features as you need by adding extensions from both Opera and the Chrome store
- finding another browser such as Firefox or Seamonkey which will come as close to your former Presto browser as possible.
Whining here and in particular ridiculing the Opera Team and demeaning their efforts by renaming the browser only ensures your views will be dismissed and in the end will prove counter-productive.
Oh... and yes. I'm being paid boat loads of money by Opera.
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Deleted User last edited by
You come across as really confused, leushino. Or maybe it is me who is confused, because you are confusing the heaven into me.
What are you bitching about Suggestion forums and developer blogs? What does a user's choice have to do with development paths? Each person has its own setup, and that is wholly unrelated to any form of development or improvement.
I really think you are just expressing a "boat load" of frustration about the way Opera has gone. Yeah, you think you are frustrated with users who are complaining, but that's not what's really going on.
"We made a choice and if you don't like it and express that you don't like it, I'm gonna sulk and call you a meanie".
Boy, you really believe that Opera users owe you their allegiance and loyalty and are required by moral law to support you in your attempt to outdo Microsoft with their fabulous Windows 8 "let's see how hard we can really fuck with our users" strategy.
Repeating the mantra that "A decision has been made and it's not ever going to change" does not suddenly make you look like a smart guy. Quite the opposite.
Someome needs to tell you that you are messing up. Ideally, thousands of people. And this is what they are doing. Now go back to bed and mommy will tell you a story that does have a happy ending.
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A Former User last edited by
hmm.. i need to open this link", right click context menu then "open", "what!?" there's no "open" menu? only got "open link in...". So technically i need to close previous tab each time to get to the links i need.
Do you know how to click with the left mouse button? -
Deleted User last edited by
The lack of the |open| option is pretty irritating. Left click opens in a new tab based on the web site code however in Presto there was always the option to over-ride web site code to the pleasure of the person browsing.
I am still trying Next as a primary browser however it is simply not up to snuff. It's quite saddening as Opera was once the best.
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leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by
Left click opens in a new tab based on the web site code however in Presto there was always the option to over-ride web site code to the pleasure of the person browsing.
Nope, there wasn't/isn't. The only way to do that was through an userjs, the "reuse current tab" option was not related to this.
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A Former User last edited by
Nope, there wasn't/isn't.
Nope, there was. The command @kersus mentioned works just like he/she said, it overrides "target=". Still, @elvennoia didn't mention this feature in his/her comment.
