Problem with Default Search Engines

lando242

lando242

The problem id had with the older version was its renderer: Presto. They were the only ones maintaining it, it had poor support from website creators (even though it was standards compliant), it was costing them a lot of resources to keep current and it was simply falling behind. So they decided to switch to the Blink renderer to solve those problems. The problem they had was the interface made for Presto was incompatible with Blink. They had to start from the ground up making their interface.

Remember, despite how 'good' everyone says the old Opera was it never got past the low single digits of market share on the desktop. They decided after 18 years of beating their head against that wall they would try something different. Since they were starting fresh they decided to take a new tack. Instead of trying to build in every feature they could, which makes the browser troublesome to maintain and hadn't bought them much in the way of market share, they went with a stripped down browser based around extensions. It took them 18 years to build the old Opera to what it was at version 12. Its taken them 2 to get the new Opera where it is.

Remember also that the number of people using things like the built in email, IRC, sessions, voice control, etc, etc, was a very low percentage of their own users. Even really basic features like bookmarks are used by a larger, but still pretty small, number of users. Heck, ad blockers, which is something I can barely tolerate not having, is only used by 25% of all web browser users. And that a high estimate. I've seen some as low as 9%. Most users just want a web browser that shows them web pages and thats it. While everyone laments the loss of the old Opera you have to remember it wasn't really making them that much money and Opera is a business. They have to got to where the market is.

shinarit

shinarit

But reskinning Chrome won't get you users. Old Opera provided something no other browser had. New Opera is basically Chrome with a couple different shortcuts which can be added to Chrome as well. Most features of the old Opera were UI based, most of which could be put on the webkit engine. But they decided not to, because who cares about users.

lando242

lando242

But reskinning Chrome won't get you users.

Its not a reskin of Chrome. Its not more a reskin of Chrome than Vivaldi is and half the bitter folks around here have been holding that up as the second coming.

Old Opera provided something no other browser had.

And it got them crap market share. There is a point where you have to admit that something sin't working and move on.

New Opera is basically Chrome with a couple different shortcuts which can be added to Chrome as well.

It does a number of things very differently from Chrome. Bookmarks, Speed dial, extensions sidebar, etc. Its only been 2 years, give them time. Rome wasn't built in a day and that certanly don't have the resources Google has.

Most features of the old Opera were UI based, most of which could be put on the webkit engine.

Incorrect. The old interface was built for Presto. It was not compatible with Blink. It would have required a completely rewrite from the ground up. The dev team felt it was better to start fresh and ship a product then it was to stay locked away earning less and less income without a release. It would have taken them significantly longer to rewrite the older interface and test it then start new and there would have been years worth of bugs to hammer out. On top of that, as I said above, many of the features in the older Opera simply weren't being used by enough people to justify their existence yet still wouldn't have needed to be maintained.

But they decided not to, because who cares about users.

Look, I understand you are bitter but we don't need you to come here and whine at other users about the decision the Opera team is making. We didn't make that decision and the devs don't show up here very often. You are literally barking up the wrong tree and its just poisoning the well.

narushima

narushima

And it got them crap market share. There is a point where you have to admit that something sin't working and move on.

They went from above 2% to below that. The situation didn't improve.
But it's a good thing they have fanboys like you ready to defend Opera no matter what they do, at least that'll keep them above the 1% mark.

Deleted User

Deleted User

So what exactly is wrong with a 2% market share, when the market is in the hundreds of millions, at least?

People like me used Opera (and I still use 9.51 for much of my browsing) because unlike the rest, it had a usable user interface. I don't really care about the underlying rendering engine: if that needs to be changed, fine. But instead of keeping the same interface around the new engine, they created a completely new UI which as far as I can tell is exactly like the unusable UI of all the other browsers. So what reason do any of us loyal users have to stick with Opera? (And I've been using Opera since sometime in the '90s, long enough ago that I actually PAID for the first versions.)

lando242

lando242

Well, theres the door guys. Its not going back the way it was so why are you still here crying about it? All you are doing is pestering the people that do like it. No devs here, no focus groups or census takers. Just users that like where this train is headed and want to see more. Quit raining on our parade just because its not your parade anymore.

Vivaldi is being built for just your market segment. Move on.

A Former User

@lando242 Here's one user that agrees with you! I tried the old Opera but could never use it daily because of the terrible rendering issues. New Opera has pretty much eliminated this problem. The features in the previous Opera were unique but, for me at least, I'd give them up for a browser that isn't a nightmare for the team to keep maintaining. At least now they can focus on introducing new features - I don't believe 2 years is a long time. In fact Opera have done a lot, imo in that time and there are now features other browsers don't have. I've also tried Vivaldi, mainly to see what the fuss is all about but in tech preview and without a stable version anywhere close to completion it's currently worse than Old Opera with bugs a plenty - how people moan about Opera's 'lack of progress' but sing a buggy tech preview's praises I'll never know. Each to their own I guess. I do agree that we need to give this tired old argument a rest now and move on.

Btw, I am no fanboy as I'll happily switch to any browser that fulfils my needs. It just happens right now that's Opera.

A Former User

At least now they can focus on introducing new features

Yeah new features like:

Remove ability to remove default search engines
Remove full list of recently closed tabs
Remove bookmark sharing
Sync that doesn't really sync SD across devices, buggy and duplicating entries
A new Speed Dial design / against-thumbnail functionality lots despise.
And so on...

A Former User

@rafaelluik As browsers will forever be implementing features/changes, there's always a good chance those issues will get addressed. All new features added surely have potential to evolve and improve over time. Who knows where Opera will be in another two years.

tisme

tisme

Anyhow, this issue is a moot now. Since the news about Opera Software upcoming sale has been published.

Deleted User

Deleted User

lando242: Well, I could just as easily point you to the door. In fact, to several doors, labeled Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer (or whatever MS is calling it these days). All of those are already exactly what you seem to want Opera to become, so why aren't you using them?

Likewise, if I could find another browser that meets my needs (which Vivaldi doesn't seem to, from the descriptions on its web site), I'd be switching ASAP. But AFAIK Opera is the only thing that has a chance, if the people running the company would pay attention to their user base instead of trying to run the company into the ground - which from the post above, it seems they may have managed to do.

A Former User

there's always a good chance those issues will get addressed

There's also the chance that doesn't matter how much detailed feedback they receive Opera will fold their ears and sing "lalala" while they override everyone's Speed Dial with the experimental version a number of didn't want, and making it hard to add new pages without adding to bookmarks first or always ending up without thumbnails. Oops, already happened.

Or ignore search engine choice for more than 2 years - oops already happening too- ok maybe in another 3-5 years. We must wait right because surely there are no other browsers out there hunting for users...

Who knows where Opera will be in another two years.

Who knows, indeed.

shagratt

shagratt

Youre lucky. I posted a similar tread but some ret....arded op closed it saying it was too much of the same kind ... I used the search and there is NO ONE POST with an answer from opera devs and cause he blocked my post I will never have the chance of receiving any anwers. Seems that the new Opera policy is "we care a shit about the people who used our browser for years"

daumiller

daumiller

I reported a bug about this a while ago, and got a response today.
"default search engines cannot be removed but we let our user to create and use their own search engines."

It appears they have no intention of changing this. I've already switched browsers. This is just insane that they are forcing these search engines. I'm curious exactly how much was required for them to sell out their users. The old Opera has been dead for quite a while; I guess these kinds of things should just be expected now...

leocg

leocg Moderator Volunteer

Youre lucky. I posted a similar tread but some ret....arded op closed it saying it was too much of the same kind ... I used the search and there is NO ONE POST with an answer from opera devs and cause he blocked my post I will never have the chance of receiving any anwers.

You have found this topic about the same thing, right? And there are others.

Btw, this is an users' forum and although some Opera employees may come here from time to time, you should not expect any answers from them.

A Former User

The search bar is still as wonderful as it was when this thread was started. You cannot type anything into the search bar that starts with y, d, z, b, or w, or it will start searching Yahoo, Duckduckgo, Amazon, Bing, or Wikipedia. Fortunately, since Google is my default, I can type anything that starts with "g" without any untoward behavior. I thought my browser had been hijacked the first time it happened, because I was trying to get to a website that started with "z" and it kept searching Amazon. I love Amazon, and go there all the time, but it's not the only website in creation.

An easy fix for that would be to change the shortcut to require a capital letter in order to change search engines. It is probably rare for most people to want to use another search engine, and it wouldn't be that much trouble to use the shift key and a letter in order to switch to a different one on those rare occasions. In fact, that would be more in accordance with the way things have been in the Windows Universe for a long time. Or, they could set up a shortcut key so that, when you discover that it has reverted to the wrong search engine, you could press the shortcut and have Opera do the same search in whatever your default search engine is.

It is much more time-consuming to type something into the search bar, then figure out what the problem is, then have to redo your search. That problem does not occur if the actual search starts with a capitalized letter, but how often do you or I do that, other than with a copy and paste? It is extraordinarily inconvenient to have the search engine change like that.

davidr

davidr

The search bar is still as wonderful as it was when this thread was started. You cannot type anything into the search bar that starts with y, d, z, b, or w, or it will start searching Yahoo, Duckduckgo, Amazon, Bing, or Wikipedia. Fortunately, since Google is my default, I can type anything that starts with "g" without any untoward behavior. I thought my browser had been hijacked the first time it happened, because I was trying to get to a website that started with "z" and it kept searching Amazon. I love Amazon, and go there all the time, but it's not the only website in creation.

What version of Opera are you using? In v. 32, when I type in the search/ULR bar (is that the one you mean?), if I type, for instance, "yerba buena" or "zoominfo," it uses my chosen default search engine (DuckDuckGo) to search for those terms. It only goes to Yahoo or Amazon if I type a y or z followed by a space.