Opera 20 - Another unhappy loyal supporter
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lem729 last edited by
Why can't we express that there are things missing that we'd like back without every point we make being argued?
It's a work in progress. Does every feature added with subsequent releases have to be "new" to be considered worthwhile when there is no shortage of "old" features missing that can still be implemented in the new engine and are actually useful to some of us?>Feature additions don't have to be be new to be desireable. However, let's recognize that Opera has changed track and is clearly a browser that now makes major use of extensions. Some of the requests for power-user feature-exotica (making a near fetish of infinite customability) in the native, "free" browser are just far out. We all have personal views. Mine is that I don't want Opera spending-wasting time right now on my total control over all aspects of my browser, or of, maybe, tabs on the bottom, tabs on the side, tab stacking, tab tiling, tab dancing, tab genuflecting ;))))) (forgive my gibes). Those type of features are fine for extensions (tab dancing? hmmm, now maybe if it's a sexy tab in a miniskirt), but that's about it. Or for a browser that people will be willing to buy ( like maybe pay $100 a year?) but not a free one. It has to be real money, because how can a company afford to build and keep current and fast an exotica-browser, if it isn't. A free browser has to find a real market. How many power users would pony up that kind of money?
And I don't think it's phony to be positive about good things about the Opera Blink browser, including the awesome Speed Dial, (the Discover feature, if you like it) (one can't lie, though one could change views ;)))) and the huge number of extensions Opera users suddenly have access too, not through the Chrome browser, but in the Opera browser, run by a company I trust far more, and which I know to have a track record of creativity and innovativeness. Maybe I see the positive more because I generally like this browser, but the complainers (and I'm not knocking anyone's discussing features the user thinks would be good) . . . but the complainers with their negativism (who always lament the glass is half empty, and never see the half-full) and "the world is coming to an end, Opera has betrayed us menatlity" are unhealthy, destructive really. Didn't Beethoven once say, "There's something about a tone."
And it's nice when people have a good tone in the forum that helps people, and encourages them with the new browser.Opera is a small company competing against economic giants. In additon to being positive about the good parts of the browser, of which there are, in my humble opinion, at least a few, what's wrong with people focussing more on additions to the basic browser that would benefit nearly everyone? Because if the additon is widely popular, it will help Opera survive -- which from the perspective of a user who likes this browser (and has always appreciated what Opera has added to the market), it's a benefit (that Opera is doing well) for me. I don't think they help themselves when the put time, energy, expense in providing a feature where only a tiny universe of users, would benefit. And maybe in the back of my (sometimes shaky) mind is an issue of trust. I have a decade long experience with Opera. I still think that they will contine in the future to do innovative, creative things with the desktop browser, even as they recently have in the mobile market with Coast for Ipad, and now for Ipod too.
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samkook last edited by
Some of their choices are very questionable though, especially the decision to force auto-updates(something almost unheard of) with only exotic ways of disabling it.
If I didn't have such a long history with them, this would have been enough to make me run away without trying anything further and never install any of their product ever again.
Normal user don't see the problem with this since they don't want to know how things work, but the threat is very real and someone with enough computer experience will see it.
There's already people having trouble with it around here.
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lem729 last edited by
That would be a slight fix for them, though in having to reprogram for a new browser engine, there are no doubt a pile-up of priorities, and most users just take the updates. I'm computer-suicidal
so I take the updates. Have you posted in the wish-list forum on that? It seems like something in Opera:flags ought to give the user an out on that. Does Firefox give you an out on the updates? I believe you said you use that also? -
blackbird71 last edited by... Does Firefox give you an out on the updates? ...
I'm presently writing this on FF29, and yes, it gives you the 'traditional' option of auto-accepting updates, blocking updates but being informed they exist, or blocking any mention of updates. Chrome forces updates like Opera, but I'm not sure about Chromium.
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samkook last edited by
Yeah, FF does and you can even set each extension to auto-update or not(Default, On or Off) which is the perfect way to handle things since you can set most of them to auto and the ones that could screw things up to not do it.
Quite frankly, I shouldn't have to request this and it should have been implemented from the very start, it's a really dumb decision to make and it NEEDS to be in the options, not hidden in opera:flags if it gets implemented.
I'll check in the wishlist later and request it if it's not there, although I have little faith since requesting something as simple as having the option to make the whole address bar text black never made it in after years of asking and that's a pretty big accessibility feature since the gray can be hard to read for some people or at a distance.
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lem729 last edited by
There are a lot of features-issues that are important, and one sets priorities. If ability to read an address is critical, then that is important for you.
The print in the Opera address bar is significantly bigger for me, than the address I see in Firefox. They seem the same to me in terms of blackness-greyness. (In Chrome the print is the biggest). In Firefox, it's clearly the smallest. It can't be that something I adjusted in Windows 7 is causing any of these differences. I adjusted Menu and Message Box. But they apply to all browsers.
Also the address in Opera 21 looks a little bigger than in Opera 12.17, and not much difference in darkness.
Now the icons on the icon bar (for extensions) in Firefox are incredibly small. Maybe 1/2 the size of the icons in Opera 21.
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Deleted User last edited by
My experience, lem, is just the opposite of yours in terms of icon size. In FF and Chrome they are perfect. In Opera they are miniscule... about 1/2 the size of the others. I'm using Windows 8.1 if that makes a difference.
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lem729 last edited by admin
Might make a difference -- that you're using Windows 8.(And I think Samkook is using Windows 7). I did adjust Menu and Message Box in the Personalization feature of Windows 7, and it worked great, but that should cover all browsers. So why should the address and icons in Firefox be so much smaller than in Opera 21?
Now leushino, you seem to have a problem in the opposite direction. I don't use Windows 8, but here's something you can look at and see if it helps you adjust stuff a little -- though I think I'd stay away from the registry editor. This link relates to Windows 8 and 8.1.
Here's the forum discussion for Windows 7. https://forums.opera.com/topic/2661/version-20-21-increase-tab-text-font-size/5
since you may want to try something similar for windows 8.
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Deleted User last edited by
Hi, long time Opera user here. Since Opera 3, and in fact a paying customer at the time.
Can someone explain to me why I should stay with Opera Next instead of some other, maybe less basic, Chrome clone such as Coolnovo which has mouse gestures, since I'm supposed to go to Chrome Market anyway hoping for some extensions that supposedly can give back old Opera features I want to keep using (and there are no extensions, as far as I'm aware, that can give me back customizable tab setting or table stack or a bunch of other Old Opera features I happen to like.And if there were they would be working with every Chromium browser).
Can you give an estimate of how much such extensions would slow down the browser and clog the memory, since speed seems to be what Opera Next is supposed to offer in place of everything it used to offer?
Also, since I'm supposed to use whatever extension Chrome Market offers to me, how is Opera going to guarantee to me, its user, that those third part extensions are safe and not, let's say, some kind of happy spyware? And should those extensions be discontinued, as it happens all the time, what am I supposed to do, go without and hope some other developer steps in?
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blackbird71 last edited by
... Can you give an estimate of how much such extensions would slow down the browser and clog the memory, since speed seems to be what Opera Next is supposed to offer in place of everything it used to offer? ...
The impact of any set of extensions for any browser will depend on both the particular extensions which are involved, the system itself, what other software might be running, and the usage load placed on the browser itself (eg: number of tabs open, Flash involvement, etc). The simplest extensions may consume little in the way of resources or have minimal speed impact; the most complex can have significant impact. In the case of Opera/Chrome/Chromium-lineage browsers, extensions each require an additional process running (by design, intended to keep a crash in one process from bringing down the entire browser).
I've found the best approach is to simply try out some extensions and see what they do on your own system. Pick a typically complex website (or several), open tabs, and see what the browser does before installing the extensions, then install them and check the same sites again. All the while, keep active the other system-intensive software (if any) that you expect to have running at the same time as the browser is being used. The extensions are easy enough to install and remove, so that it's not that big a deal to test their effects, and what really matter to you will be the impact (if any) to your browser and other software, used in the way you normally do.
Your other questions I'll leave for others to address.
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lem729 last edited by
Hi, long time Opera user here. Since Opera 3, and in fact a paying customer at the time.
Can someone explain to me why I should stay with Opera Next instead of some other, maybe less basic>Are you using Opera Next or Opera 21? Opera 21 is the latest version of Opera deemed stable enough for general use. Opera Next is a beta or testing version. So if you are concerned about stability and safety, but want to still use Opera, Version 21 is a better bet for you than Opera Next. I've got 16 extensionn on my Opera 21 -- some are Opera extensions, and others chrome extensions.
To use a Chrome extension, all you need is the Opera extension, called, "Download Chrome Extension.". The speed of my browser is still fine. At any time, you can deactivate an extension, or deactivate all of your extensions to test speed without it. And you can always delete an extension or extensions. So what's the harm testing to see if you like something, without becoming paranoid about it? One always must weigh, whether the feature is important enough for you to warrant the extension. I mean, everyone is different, but for me, there's no fun at all browsing, or it's just an essential item, and I'm not going to do wihout it. I'm quite happy with how the browser is performing right now. The speed is great.
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usagigari last edited by
my take is that many of the features werent originally present in webkit/blink, as well as the UI environment used for chrome and opera 15+
it will most likely take time for the developers to make those things from scratch, although, there is one thing that i find inexcusable - the bookmarks... even chrome and maxthon cloud browser have bookmark managers, how come opera didnt? what were the developers thinking that the stash is an appealing feature?!
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lem729 last edited by
I think the Opera developers originally had in mind bookmarks mostly with the Speed Dial (with folders).
For the time being, try a good bookmark manager extension, like Neater Bookmarks.
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/neater-bookmarks/ofgjggbjanlhbgaemjbkiegeebmccifi?hl=en-US
Also did you activate the bookmarks bar. Control P, and put a check in Show Bookmarks bar.
To use a Chrome extension, all you need is the Opera extension, called Download Chrome Extension.
https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/download-chrome-extension-9/?display=en
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Deleted User last edited by
I'm using Opera 12 and very rarely Opera 22 since I like to use mouse gestures, so I rather use Coolnovo. 'Next' was shorthand for the new Opera with the new kernel.
Thank you for your comments, but why should I use Opera with the Chrome engine instead than any other Chrome clone out there, since I have to be equally paranoid with both? (and yes, Chrome extensions can be really really nosy).
My problem is, in Opera 22 I have to use extensions to have a functioning browser and still I don't have all the features I had with Old Opera without extensions. Not to mention options and customization, and they are very important to me.
Also I'm supposed to fiddle with third party software that can or can not be right for the feature I need, can or can not install and uninstall cleanly, can or can not be abandonware, can or can not disappear without warning, can or can not be unsafe or bugged or coded by demented monkeys or made to send my data in parts unknown. Maybe I'm paranoid but there are examples of all of this in Chrome market.
Also Chrome is made for light browsing and New Opera follows suite and their extensions are more of the same. I have hundreds of bookmarks and I like them ordered by nested folders. I also like to keep open dozens of tabs, and keep them in stacks on the right side of the screen. I like to set bars on the side of the screen or at the bottom and to choose what bars to show and what buttons go on them. There is not an extension in the green pastures of Chrome that can give me that. And if there was, I had no reason to stay with Opera rather than any other Chrome wannabe or, of course, the beast itself.
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lem729 last edited by
It's your choice. But I don't see your concern about uninstall. I've never had a problem with Opera 21, uninstall with regard to any Opera or a Chrome extension, or of deactivating them. It's simple. And if the extra Opera features -- the Speed Dial with folders, Discover,Off Road Mode, Stash, etc -- don't interest you, that's your choice. Go for Coolnovo (with those mouse gesturres). All I was passing along is that I'm having no problem using extensions in Opera 19-21. Also, with Opera 22 (as of today) you can use Opera extensions, as well as Chrome extensions. The Opera extensions are vetted closely by Opera for safety, so there's even less risk with them, than with a Chrome extension. In any event, even with the Chrome extensions, they're easy enough to uninstall.
Not sure about your tab solution, lol, as you keep lots of tabs open. Many the extension TooManyTabs for Chrome would help, or OneTab.
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/toomanytabs-for-chrome/amigcgbheognjmfkaieeeadojiibgbdp
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbolifaimnlloiipkdnihall
And there are some mouse gestures extension in the Chrome Store. "Cortaud" is a nice French word for "stocky," Etes-vous francais?
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drewfx last edited by
Can you give an estimate of how much such extensions would slow down the browser and clog the memory, since speed seems to be what Opera Next is supposed to offer in place of everything it used to offer?
Once you install an extension you can go to Developer Tools (I think you have enable them under More Tools first) and run Task Manager. This will tell you how much memory and other resources it is currently using. It also gives you the process ID which you can use to look at it using Windows' Task Manager if you want more detail.
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alreadybanned last edited by
I'm not going to tell someone that their experience is wrong but I will add to the conversation something that seems to be rather obvious yet overlooked.
IE has been the king of web browsers and it never had extensions. The key to it's success was that it was already bundled with Windows, that it just worked and was simple to use. Chrome's success imo is a mirror of just that. Open source, extensions, anti-Microsoft, etc.. appeals to a very small demographic. The thing that all the top browsers have in common is not the ability to add 3rd party functionality but that they are American and thus are marketed with gusto and shadiness. Google, like Micorsoft, bundles Chrome with a plethora of things, essentially hijacking people's systems. Got an iPhone? then you NEED to install iTunes. Have and Android phone? then you need to get a gmail account which you might as well connect to circles and + and all that crap. So you'll excuse me if I don't think fast speeds and extension are what rule the day.
From my experience, extensions can add some much needed functionality but they do so in a way that rarely feels native to the browser. Presto had things that people didn't use and the beauty was that they didn't have to. The new thinking seems to be that a dumbed down GUI with finger painting capabilities is what people want, and I for one am glad because I think this will give birth to some new mavericks who will buck the monoculture trend and the current overall lack of creativity.(Adding a web portal and turning text items into pictures isn't what I would consider ground breaking)
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Deleted User last edited by
Pretty much a load of tripe (but why doesn't that surprise me?). The Big Bad USA. The evil MS empire. The good European browser so misunderstood. Oh how wonderful Presto was but sadly... such poor marketing. What utter nonsense. Man do you need to get over yourself and wake up to reality. Thankfully Opera has done just that and it will be much better off for it in the long run ... yes, minus a few thousand whining geeks but with tens of thousands of new "average" users who couldn't care less about all the ultra configurable nature of Presto.
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drewfx last edited by
wake up to reality. Thankfully Opera has done just that and it will be much better off for it in the long run ... yes, minus a few thousand whining geeks but with tens of thousands of new "average" users who couldn't care less about all the ultra configurable nature of Presto.
If we're going to talk about "reality", personally I think the reality is it was a business decision.
Presto required too big of an ongoing commitment for both maintenance, compatibility and upgrades with declining market share in a desktop market that wasn't expanding. So they decided to cut their losses and build on top of someone else's engine. Which indeed has certain advantages.
But the idea that it was done purely to create the greatest browser ever known to man or whatever is nonsense.
The question now for realists is what should happen going forward, as I don't believe Opera is going to turn back to Presto.
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lem729 last edited by
From my experience, extensions can add some much needed functionality but they do so in a way that rarely feels native to the browser.>
The extensions don't feel un-native to me. I'm not even sure what that word means. It's techno-babble
to me. The one's I like feel great! And I'm happy to have them. I don't at all agree with those who think extensions weren't a major part of Firefox's success as well as Chrome's current success. Google adopted the extension model for a reason, and I don't think it was just to off-load rogue software. Lol. And I am enjoying a good number of the extensions I've added to Opera.And drewfx, maybe Opera isn't thinking of creating, "the greatest browser ever known to man," but they are a company that wants to make money, and also, I believe they have pride in their achievements -- which have continued with the innovative Coast for Ipad. No reason to think they want to stop their work on desktop Opera. Maybe they do want to save bucks not having to develop the browser engine, but that gives them more flexibility to be creative elsewhere.
