I Can't Erase the Chinese Issue Easily
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canadagoose4everreturns last edited byI began using Opera in 1999 and was a loyal user up until the 2013 when the Presto engine was dropped for Web Kit. Following that debacle I went over to Firefox but still kept up with Opera although it was no longer my default. In 2016 when the company was acquired by a Chinese consortium, I pretty much bailed from the company after watching many engineers leave and reading that there was concern that the browser had backdoors (i.e. spyware). I know that the company is under Norwegian laws but the suspicion remains. Are there any legitimate reasons to be hesitant to use the browser or is this just baseless rumor? Thanks for your patience with this old, former user.
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leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by leocg@canadagoose4everreturns You are late for the "Is Opera Spyware?" trend, people stopped doing it months ago.
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canadagoose4everreturns last edited by
@leocg Thanks. As you can see from the comments below the article to which you linked, Leo, I was a contributor and yes... I'm still here and I'm still on the fence. I don't publicly criticize Opera and I continue to simply ask questions mostly to help me overcome my hesitancy in using the browser I once loved. I wish it were easier for me to just let go and trust Opera but as you can see, I'm still seeking answers all these years later. Sorry.
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DerSchlingel last edited by@canadagoose4everreturns I have the same sentiments like you. I‘m in an on/off relation towards Opera. Main point like yours, is the Chinese ownership something to worry about?
I‘m glad they’ve been addressing the issue on their blog and on social media along with some other concerns as how they make money. If they were owned by a major European investor, I‘d be a lot more confident. Yet in my case I still really really like the browser.
Out of these concerns I‘d been trying different alternatives, sticking mainly to Firefox lately. I tried Brave but if you ask me you can’t trust them as well. It’s not the browser but the way they make their money with the crypto stuff and the libertarian world in their background. I also tried Vivaldi which may be the alternative that mostly resembles Opera itself. But at this point, I‘d say they are too much a power users’ browser. What I need and want to use, isn’t anything that Opera doesn‘t already have. And I think their mobile versions are not that good either.
I don’t actually believe that Opera is spyware in any sense. If they were, we would already know. I wouldn’t believe they‘re stealing any data for the Chinese government, but they‘re collecting quite more data than Firefox, Vivaldi and maybe even Brave. They have to make some money nevertheless, especially when you turn off all promotional stuff that’s turned on by default.
Otherwise if you go for Inside Opera on Instagram or to jobs.opera.com you‘ll see a lot of smart young people working for them in many different mostly European locations. They actively publish on their blogs about releases and changelogs. Would they do, if they were shady? I haven‘t found any report about the browser that would be really troublesome. But you can find some irritating reports about its mother company Kunlun and their owner. Is there a difference between the browser and those who own it?
People use Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Google and Microsoft but avoid Opera? Every major news site works with trackers. So, why is it a problem with Opera having ads? Newest Firefox will also have Suggest, promotional bookmarks and settings to open Firefox on start. They also offer VPN now, which isn’t nothing more than a proxy. Why is Opera criticized for doing the same, but Firefox not?
No, I haven’t settled on the question yet. Using both Firefox and Opera, with the former given me more peace of mind and the latter more fun and better workflow. -
canadagoose4everreturns last edited by
@DerSchlingel Thanks for the information and sharing your experience. As I mentioned in my first post, I began in '99 when the browser used the old Presto engine. I admired the company, the services (especially the old Opera forum and the profiles they allowed back then... it was more like a family in a sense). When John left the company it seems that things began to unravel. It was at that point that I pulled away and returned to some old ways (i.e. Firefox... formerly Netscape... I actually began with Netscape 3.0 and continued on up to Netscape 9... although I disliked both versions 8 and 9 in comparison to what preceded them. Today I run Brave on my Windows computer and of course Safari on my MacBook. But I still hang about the edges of Opera and always wonder if it's a wise choice to at least give it a try. At this point... I'm still undecided.
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DerSchlingel last edited by
@canadagoose4everreturns At the end of the day it boils down to the question: Can I really use the browser I like in good conscience, although it is owned by a Chinese billionaire? Zhou Yahui holds roundabout 70% of Opera Ltd‘s stakes which is a controlling majority giving him access to strategic development of the company. So Opera, the browser may be headquartered in Norway, traded on NASDAQ, still Opera Ltd is registered on Cayman Islands and other stakeholders won‘t have any say in the development of Opera. These are facts, not speculations.
The browser is mainly developed in Poland (desktop) and some other European countries as Sweden (mobile). So on that front, it doesn’t seem there‘s something going on behind the scenes. So, again, how much does ownership control your feelings about a browser, that at its core is made by people in central Europe?
I still have no answer to that. I like Opera on desktop, Android and iOS. It looks modern, has some nifty features, works more than well enough, but still there‘s this uneasiness about who owns the company. -
canadagoose4everreturns last edited by
@DerSchlingel According to the DuckDuckGo AI, "the ownership by a Chinese company raises questions about data security and privacy, particularly due to Chinese laws that may require companies to share data with the government. Kunlun Tech's control over Opera allows it to influence the browser's features and content, which can lead to concerns about censorship and data handling practices. This ownership structure has significant implications for users regarding privacy and data security, especially given the integrated features of the Opera browser, such as its VPN service." As far as their Okash service is concerned this is the conclusion: the fair conclusion is: Opera did have lending businesses in African markets, and there were credible, specific reports of troubling lending and collection practices. But don’t treat every claim in the short-seller report as independently proven, and don’t assume those historical reports establish the current practices of every service associated with Opera.
All of this relates to exactly what you posted: "can I use the browser that I like (i.e. Opera) in good conscience" given the information above? At this point my answer is still no. I remain on the edge looking in and waiting. -
DerSchlingel last edited by
@canadagoose4everreturns Unfortunately I can’t upvote your comment. But I feel the same. The OPay thing has done a lot of reputational damage. You can’t get these things out of your mind and so can’t I.