So what is Opera's target audience now?
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drewfx last edited by
Nahhhh, you['re not abandoned, drewfx. Opera still has Opera 12.17 as a download. It offers Opera Blink AND Opera Presto. It's working on improving Opera 21, and there may be a time when you'll want to make a change. If you were abandoned, Opera would cut off the donwload of Presto. As for the marketing by Opera, that's just sales talk. All the browser entities use generalizations like that, you know, sort of like love talk -- haha, "sweet nothings."
I'm abandoned because they don't seem interested in restoring key features that are among the main reasons I've been using (and recommending) Opera since the days when I had to pay to get an ad-free copy.
And just to be clear, I'm not talking about the features are simply not feasible under Blink. I understand that there were very good reasons to move off of Presto going forward and there are certain necessary compromises that come with that. I'm talking about the UNNECESSARY compromises.
Currently I've decided to try out 21 in parallel with 12.17. But 21 is just lacking key features I need. And no, Extensions are not always an acceptable workaround because the Extension API is limited in certain ways.
If Opera's developers expressed an interest in gradually restoring missing functionality where feasible it would go a long way for some of us.
As to the sales talk, the issue I was pointing out was that Opera isn't making much of a case for itself, IMO. Some people here like to use the word "innovative" when describing some of the features and my point is that they then need to aggressively market those features and explain exactly what they are and why they're different and useful.
Instead they say things like "Opera gives you the freedom to truly open the web and explore". Exactly who is supposed to be inspired by a phrase like that and hit download?
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lem729 last edited by admin
You might take a look at Blackbird71's post. I think he pragmatically describes the situation for those unhappy with Opera 21.
https://forums.opera.com/topic/2102/opera-12-vs-opera-next-functionality/84
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drewfx last edited by admin
You might take a look at Blackbird71's post. I think he pragmatically describes the situation for those unhappy with Opera 21.
https://forums.opera.com/topic/2102/opera-12-vs-opera-next-functionality/84Perhaps you should read my post.
Whether you want to pretend otherwise or not, there's a vast difference between Presto features that are simply not feasible under Blink and ones that are completely feasible under the new Opera but just haven't been implemented.
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A Former User last edited by
I can just as easily sign up again and again just to be the bane of your existence so, go ahead, make my day.
Posting factual stats is also far from hooey.
You can attack me if you like and I will gladly push back. What I wont do is pretend that's not what I'm doing. Threatening to ban someone who posts factual arguments because one lacks the ability to counter in an intuitive way would be a good example of blackmail but I haven't done that. We can't all say that though can we?There's nothing factual about the "stats" you're posting. Drop this bullshit already. I won't have problems banning you over and over again if you wish.
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blackbird71 last edited byTo return to the thread title's question, I think Opera's target audience is frankly anyone they can get, just as their target audience has always been. Their goal is to attract users so as to increase company revenue... and there are multiple ways in which revenue gets involved in the situation. Opera gets primary revenue from paid pre-placement of their browsers onto certain brands of mobile devices, they get primary revenue from browser usage via click-count 'royalties' from favored accessory and link placements, and they get primary revenue from a variety of web marketing ventures. In such a business, the larger the market share one commands, the better the financial terms one can negotiate for their revenue sources. Anything that can enhance a browser's presence in both the mobile and desktop realms improves a browser-maker's revenue structure - especially if a similar browser can be employed 'seamlessly' across an array of different devices.
What I believe have changed are both the online world itself and Opera's approach to it... consequently what Opera is pursuing within its browser design and to whom it is attempting to appeal have both been impacted. Over time, the usage of the Internet has both been technically enhanced and dumbed down. Enhanced with the arrival of ever-more compact mobile devices and new/better technical protocols and various bells and whistles; dumbed-down as more users with fewer (if any) technical credentials are coming to constitute the 'user marketplace', compared to bygone days when users had to have a fair understanding of browser technology and how to control it in detail. To increase user count nowadays, browser makers must seek those who aren't current users... and as the non-technical user segment of the market has exploded, so the browser makers must seek such users to obtain growth.
Nothing of value comes free, it costs to create it. And the cost of putting in a particular technical feature consists of both the direct cost of its development and a "forgone" cost of not developing some other feature because the limited resources involved are tied up in developing the first feature. If the perception of the user market is that non-technical users are where the business's growth potential lies, then it's doubly difficult to rationalize putting in "technical" features at the expense of adding ones that might appeal to non-technical users.
So, bottom line, I believe that Opera's "target audience" is still anyone they can get, but I think Opera believes there are more such users to be gotten by reducing the "technical" usage footprint from Presto days than by continuing to focus on appealing to the "technical" users. There is some eventual hope for "technical" users in such a situation simply because, at some point, technical-cleverness/configurability becomes the only area really left to distinguish a browser from its look-alike competitors (copying "features" being what it is these days)... and once the flash of the Blink redesign is well in hand, there will be few other kinds of avenues for Opera to pursue in future days. So, for Opera "technical" users... patience, Iago, patience!
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lem729 last edited by
Isn't there then a possibility (as you say, blackbird71, "Nothing of value comes free, it costs to create it") that the "features" market, for the high end user is, at best, a "pay for service" market -- that a company could find it's financially worthwhile (maybe) to produce a product to meet the needs of these users -- even if they are a niche market. The problem is that everyone is simultaneously demanding a free product and want all of their needs met
And they get indignant to boot, if they're not. It's mind-boggling! -
Deleted User last edited by
Very thorough and well-thought-out presentation, blackbird71. Now if only your post would be read with an open mind I'm sure the whining and complaining would be reduced. It is what it is and it will be what it will be in good time and not before then.
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drewfx last edited by
I can only say that I gladly payed for Opera way back when you could do so to get rid of the ads.
And isn't there a possibility that non-technical users don't have enough sophistication to understand why they should switch to a browser different than "the one that came with it"?
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Deleted User last edited by
Sure, there's that possibility. And there's also the possibility that blackbird71 has hit a homerun with his analysis and you simply do not want to accept it. The fact is, Opera will do what it wants in spite of our complaints. It's their property and we're simply using it for free. Opera Presto was never popular and never would have been and it was time for a change whether you or I like it or not. That decision has been made and this late in the game it won't be altered. So you have a decision to make: accept it or find another browser. It's really as simple as that.
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Deleted User last edited by
@lem729: I also paid for it and you're quite correct: it was almost nothing so there's no big deal in saying we "paid for it" back in the day. Geeze, I paid for an early Netscape browser and it was considerably more than Opera's cost.
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drewfx last edited by
So you have a decision to make: accept it or find another browser. It's really as simple as that.
Why is it people keep missing another possibility - they could very add some desired functionality back in where it's feasible under the new engine. I don't see any reason why those of us who want such things shouldn't express that strongly. Successful companies have been know to listen to their user base on occasion.
But for some reason people want to confuse the "bring Presto back" argument with "bring back some features where possible".
This "just accept it or not" is a false choice. I'm arguing for making Blink Opera better by restoring some desirable features where possible, not going back to Presto. Why is that even something to argue over?
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drewfx last edited by
@lem729: I also paid for it and you're quite correct: it was almost nothing so there's no big deal in saying we "paid for it" back in the day. Geeze, I paid for an early Netscape browser and it was considerably more than Opera's cost.
It was a loooong time ago so I don't remember what I paid, but I'm sure it wasn't a great deal.
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blackbird71 last edited by
... Why is it people keep missing another possibility - they could very add some desired functionality back in where it's feasible under the new engine. I don't see any reason why those of us who want such things shouldn't express that strongly. Successful companies have been know to listen to their user base on occasion.
But for some reason people want to confuse the "bring Presto back" argument with "bring back some features where possible".
This "just accept it or not" is a false choice. I'm arguing for making Blink Opera better by restoring some desirable features where possible, not going back to Presto. Why is that even something to argue over?While I agree that making reasoned pleas or arguments for certain features on their own merits is a good, constructive way to try to persuade Opera to incorporate or return a feature, there is no way in the "here and now" for such discussions to impact one's current browser selection or usage. In the here and now, one truly has but a three-fold choice: use Old Opera with its superior configurability but also its increasing incompatibilities, use New Opera as it currently shapes up with whatever limitations or unpleasantries result, or use a different browser with its own set of limitations and issues.
Your "missing" possibility is missing, in large measure, because Opera developers are a limited resource. In a universe of limitless resources, Opera would most likely have already added every conceivable feature and configuration tool Opera browser's ever had or could ever be imagined. But that's not reality. To add a feature or tweak/adjustment requires development time and introduces potential 'unpleasant' interactions. Moreover, it diverts scarce resources from developing features or operationality which Opera believes are more on-target for whatever it's aiming at. That is all part of whether or not the idea or suggestion is "feasible".
I agree that the only eventual real-world answer for more technically-demanding Opera users is to seek to make "Blink Opera better by restoring some desirable features where possible". But whether that's feasible depends not only on the mechanics of the feature being sought, but whether resources are available without sacrificing/complicating other critical development work and whether the result would detract from the end target that Opera is trying to hit.
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username342342345 last edited by
Well, you have to keep in mind Opera is/was used in corporate settings in Europe as the default browser. Like how much of IE count was based on companies using base window images, which only had IE. That may explain the great dive in Opera usage before the blink version came out. Also every place will have a different percentage of opera users, but all in all the percents seem correct over the various sites.
The main problem I see with opera's usage is the version fragmentation. There usually was the current version and a few from the last version. Now it's Some from current blink version, some from old blink version, some from current presto, some from old presto. I have a feeling that fragmentation will keep getting worse since opera seems to have adopted google's agile SDLC process. Not sure if it's to sync with the development of blink, or just to hop on the fad bandwagon.
I don't think opera's main objective is browser penetration, or selling browsers to embedded device manufactures anymore. I have a feeling they're trying to switch to a service type monetization scheme. Where they have an online store where people get "opera max" or etc type services. (i have no idea what opera max or their other services do.)
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drewfx last edited by
Then we agree.
Except it's a four-fold choice because personally I'm running 12.17 and 21 in parallel.
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Deleted User last edited by
I have a feeling they're trying to switch to a service type monetization scheme. Where they have an online store where people get "opera max" or etc type services. (i have no idea what opera max or their other services do.)
Very perceptive.
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blackbird71 last edited by
... I don't think opera's main objective is browser penetration, or selling browsers to embedded device manufactures anymore. I have a feeling they're trying to switch to a service type monetization scheme. Where they have an online store where people get "opera max" or etc type services. (i have no idea what opera max or their other services do.)
So... where does Opera earn revenue from the online store service-type scheme? (Assuming, of course, that they continue respecting privacy per their FAQ comments regarding Opera Max, and don't market the user data associated with thngs like the O-Max compression product). For revenue to appear, somebody somewhere's got to pay them for something.
Free browsers generate revenue in ways other than the sale of the browser itself. If one monetizes the elements provided through a store by selling them, those additional (but often key) "features" of the browser will no longer be free; if one monetizes through selling the user data associated with whatever's in the store, user privacy can be violated - which may not play too well especially in the European community. While selling services or subscriptions seems like a good revenue-generating idea, you first have to have something to sell that buyers both want and can't get elsewhere for "free"... and that implies changing more than a company's business strategy - it implies changing the entire current Internet-related paradigm.
