Tips and tricks to keep opera 12.xx relavent?
-
jito463 last edited by
I'm glad to hear you're happy, but your post was effectively stating that everyone should abandon Opera because other browsers do everything it does. That's not true. Another browser does everything you need it to do, and that's fine; but there's no browser that will fit everyone's needs. Presto-based Opera just does some things that other browsers do not, or only do some, but not enough of.
You might find a few features in one browser similar to Opera, but not others, while another browser may fulfill the need for other features, but not the ones the previous browser does. I have yet to find a single browser that matches all the functionality I have in Opera without making a ton of modifications, and even then not necessarily everything.
All I'm trying to say, is making a flat-out statement that "other browsers do just as much as the old Opera" isn't entirely true. Not to the extent that some of us need them to.
-
A Former User last edited by
One of the fundamental things about Presto Opera was that it was extremely customisable.
All the menus, toolbars, buttons etc. could be changed to be exactly as the user wanted them.
That functionality does not exist, and probably never will exist, in any other browser, including the new versions of Opera.
That's very sad for people like me who used that functionality a lot, but it has to be accepted that only a small proportion of users actually wanted to do that, so I'm afraid it will not return.
Make the most of Presto Opera and use it for as long as is practicable I say, as you will not see its like ever again!
-
blackbird71 last edited byNo two people will use a browser in the exact same way unless the browser has zero adjustments, settings, or accessories. People are different; their browsing needs and desires are different, And other users have no legitimate way (or business) telling another user whether their stated 'need' is instead merely a 'desire'. This entire year-long debate over Blink Opera has been fraught with both sides telling the other what a browser "ought" to be. That debate will never be resolved, just as different people will never be the same nor see things exactly the same way.
If a browser, Opera 12.14 for example, adequately meets the needs of one user for the next five years, so be it. If it fails miserably in the next two weeks for some other user, that's OK too. Their needs will vary, as will the solution paths they take. Personally, I sometimes use one ancient browser dating from ~1998 for certain forms of browsing in harm's way simply because it is so old, its name so obscure, and it's so lacking in modern scripting and functionality that it can't be exploited harmfully, in all practicality. While it barely renders some modern sites, it serves the purposes for which I use it. Presto Opera serves other purposes for me, and will continue to do so for years to come, no matter what. Beyond that, I trial various new browser versions of different brands, with FF currently being my preferred primary browser, largely because I can configure it to nearly replicate Presto Opera in those various key areas that are important to me and how I work.
But if the past 15 months have taught me one thing, it's been that free web browsers are transient things. No matter who makes them nor how effective a tool they may be, nothing about them is guaranteed for tomorrow. Presto Opera had a rare, remarkably long run, with users that became highly adapted to its numerous evolving features and "feel" over the years... but those days are over, full stop. That is reality, and it cannot be changed. What matters now is how best for users to go forward. Some will hang on to Presto Opera as long as it has life and breath for their needs... and that's OK. Others will find its growing incompatibilities too frequent to tolerate, and will look elsewhere - Blink Opera or other brands, and that's OK too. But at root, users need to accept that no browser maker, Opera or Mozilla or Microsoft or Google or whomever, owes them anything in terms of how a free browser operates or is designed. Users have to continually be willing to find their own way as they go along. That's simply how it is.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Presto Opera had a rare, remarkably long run, with users that became highly adapted to its numerous evolving features and "feel" over the years... but those days are over, full stop. That is reality, and it cannot be changed. What matters now is how best for users to go forward. Some will hang on to Presto Opera as long as it has life and breath for their needs... and that's OK. Others will find its growing incompatibilities too frequent to tolerate, and will look elsewhere - Blink Opera or other brands, and that's OK too. But at root, users need to accept that no browser maker, Opera or Mozilla or Microsoft or Google or whomever, owes them anything in terms of how a free browser operates or is designed.
Presto is over... full stop. We need to move forward and that may include using Presto BUT it does not mean complaining against Opera... full stop. Opera does not owe us anything nor do we have the right to demand it build their browser according to our specifications.
Good summary of the situation. Of course it will be dutifully ignored but that's to be expected. I wonder if 15 months from now this message will have finally sunk in?
-
Deleted User last edited by
Opera Presto is dead, it will become more and more insecure and incompatible, you should choose a browser that it is receiving updates.
-
lem729 last edited by
Is it really dead. I thought Opera was giving Opera 12.16 security updates. Am I wrong there? I looked on the Opera site, and couldn't find where the 12.16 browser could be downloaded. I thought it was still a download from Opera.
Now let's look at Windows XP. One week before Microsoft cut off all support: "The shocking number is how many still rely upon Windows XP only a week before the cutoff. 18.6 percent, making Windows XP the number 2 operating system, with number 3, MacOSx, being far behind with 8.6 percent." http://it.tmcnet.com/topics/it/articles/2014/04/03/375139-courageous-computer-users-still-using-windows-xp-with.htm
Windows 7 was the No. 1 Operating system on 54.7 percent of devices worldwide. Still, the Windows XP figure is amazing..
So people do hang in there with what they like.
-
leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by
I thought Opera was giving Opera 12.16 security updates. Am I wrong there?
Opera 12.16 will only get updates if a very serious security issue is found. However, depending on the timming and situation, Opera may just tell the users to upgrade to the latest version.
-
Deleted User last edited by
I doubt any security patches will be provided at this late date. Like Windows XP it's time to upgrade or be very circumspect about your online habits.
-
Deleted User last edited by
if you want to use Windows XP, you have to download from some site because you won't find it in a virtual or real store.
-
A Former User last edited by
Like any other Windows software, Opera 12 or earlier versions will continue to run for years, at least until Windows 7 goes the way of Windows XP. All this talk of it being dead is nonsense.
Eventually, there may be more sites that it cannot cope with, but then I will still use Open With as I do now when I come across a broken site.
Until Opera for Blink gets the features that I need to customise shortcuts, gestures, menus, at least, and hopefully toolbars too, I am quite happy to continue using Opera 12.16 or 11.64.
Last July I said, "Give it a year," and it's already over 9 months since Opera 15 was released (2013-07-02), but it's still nowhere near what I need. The Bookmarks are good enough as they were by last August. What else has improved?
The bottom line is that you need do nothing to keep Opera 12.16 relevant. It will remain relevant as long as it works on your OS, whether that be Windows XP, 7, or 8, or Linux or Mac.
The real question is, “What can be done to make Opera Next relevant?”
-
-
Deleted User last edited by
The final die hasn't been cast about Opera "Presto"'s future, at all. In life, we often abandon things we think for good, but often we change and at some point start looking back.
Today is not the time for these developers to look back. And they regret what they've done, so they don't want you to remind them of their decision. Therefore, they will say "that's over and done with, please only look at the present, please".
The measure of how strongly they do not want you to talk about Opera Classic, is the measure of how much they regret its demise.
And I can tell them that the die has been thrown, but it will still take several years to land.
--
Currently I still use 12.14 for everything except YouTube and sometimes Facebook.
But I was reminded of the changes when 12.14 failed to preserve whitelines in some forum post, while 20.0 had no problem with it. On some Microsoft site.
Yet, I am willing to "suffer" these "indignities" for as long as needed. This is not out of loyalty, but merely out of comfort. Like some people don't want to throw away their old jeans because they wear so pleasantly. Opera 12 does what I want it to do, the only thing that's broken is the rendering engine.
I can even use it to troubleshoot webpage loading issues! My God, it even provides timing statistics for every element that is being fetched and loaded from some website or remote location. I never used that feature before because the interface is rather threatening, but... hey, it's a power tool. A power house.
And I love it to bits! ;-). Haha.
EDIT
I could never have imagined that the exact same(?) profiling/diagnostics functionality is actually preserved in Opera Next. "Inspect element" is actually been migrated to the new Opera. Amazing. That's Opera's most advanced feature, by far!!
-
Deleted User last edited by
The final die hasn't been cast about Opera "Presto"'s future, at all.
Yes, I'm afraid it HAS been cast. Opera Presto IS most certainly dead in terms of any future development. Now you can believe that Santa Claus exists but that doesn't make it so. And you can believe that Opera will pick up Presto and run with it again, but there is no indication that this is so. In the sense that it is still usable, OF COURSE it is not dead. I've posted here many times that those who love Presto and "need" it should continue to use it. But to say that it has a future is unwarranted. From all indications from Opera, it is over and done with. That is simply reality. This all reminds me so much of the death of Netscape. I was a huge proponent of Netscape back in the day and used every version of it up until its death. And like many others, I continued to use it hoping AOL would resurrect it or someone would but in the end, it died and we turned to other browsers. The same is now true (for all intents and purposes and by all indications) of Opera Presto.
-
lem729 last edited by
Presto is not open source (I think). So Opera could decide to develop it again (and leushino says no way). They could still make it open source (good public relations to their longtime loyal power users, but perhaps they wouldn't want to give away something for nothing) or they could sell it. Would anyone want to buy it? The issue is one of market. Now if a good number of the features of Opera Presto are picked up via Opera blink (through extensions or otherwise), there'd be no interest in that. But if this doesn't happen, then the issue is market. How many power users are there? It would be interesting to hear comments on whether Opera might be inclined (for its longtime loyal power users) to make it open source, or whether there could be a market to sell it to a third party.
-
colderwinters last edited by
Presto is not open source (I think). So Opera could decide to develop it again (and leushino says no way). They could still make it open source (good public relations to their longtime loyal power users, but perhaps they wouldn't want to give away something for nothing) or they could sell it. Would anyone want to buy it? The issue is one of market. Now if a good number of the features of Opera Presto are picked up via Opera blink (through extensions or otherwise), there'd be no interest in that. But if this doesn't happen, then the issue is market. How many power users are there? It would be interesting to hear comments on whether Opera might be inclined (for its longtime loyal power users) to make it open source, or whether there could be a market to sell it to a third party.
There is something in the works actually called the Otter Browser Project, It's pretty much in its infancy right now and any downloads they may have is only for Linux right now, ok I was wrong they have downloads for windows also ------> http://www.ghacks.net/2014/01/12/otter-browser-project-aims-recreate-classic-opera-web-browser/
-
lem729 last edited by
But they're not using the Presto engine. Anyone can say they're going to recreate Opera -- give us money!
I'm thinking Opera has the power to make Presto open source (certainly that would help other potential developers), or Opera could sell it, if there is a market. Now some say the Presto engine is too dated to have value. I'm not an expert on that.
-
colderwinters last edited by
I dont think the Presto engine is that big of a deal UNLESS it's the second fastest browser engine known to man Next to Blink, What people care about more is all the Features and options the old Opera had regardless of the engine and if someone can recreate what the old Opera had, more power to them. Now if they tried to recreate the old Opera using a DogShit Slow engine, yeah then forget it.
-
lem729 last edited by
But wouldn't having the Opera programming in Presto help? I mean in Presto, you can navigate links in a page with the arrow keys. Firefox could never do that. If you're starting from scratch, it will take a lifetime. Just saying you want features doesn't get them. I think you want the Opera programming that was done in Presto to get the features.
-
blackbird71 last edited by
Presto is not open source (I think). So Opera could decide to develop it again (and leushino says no way). They could still make it open source (good public relations to their longtime loyal power users, but perhaps they wouldn't want to give away something for nothing) or they could sell it. Would anyone want to buy it? The issue is one of market. Now if a good number of the features of Opera Presto are picked up via Opera blink (through extensions or otherwise), there'd be no interest in that. But if this doesn't happen, then the issue is market. How many power users are there? It would be interesting to hear comments on whether Opera might be inclined (for its longtime loyal power users) to make it open source, or whether there could be a market to sell it to a third party.
Indeed, Presto is not open source. Opera owns it and the rights to it; moreover, Opera has licensed Presto to a some other companies for use in other products, and those continue to return license revenue to Opera. Such licenses probably limit what Opera can do with Presto in terms of making it public to the licensee's competitors. If only for those reasons, it's extremely unlikely for Opera to release Presto into the public domain. However, an even greater reason looms: why would a company establish free access to code it spent years and mega-dollars to develop if the only likely result of that was to assist other development houses to use it to compete with Opera?
After all these years, Microsoft has never released DOS into the public domain, nor is it ever likely to. Its reasons in many cases run parallel to those of Opera. The reality is that Opera is the only company that legally can release a Presto-based browser, but Opera has decided to go a different direction with Blink - just as Microsoft has chosen to go a different direction from DOS with its newer OSs, but it still doesn't make DOS open source. Don't hold your breath waiting for another web browser based on Presto.
