Here are some suggestions for those looking for alternatives to Opera 12 (and use Opera Mail)
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salahuddin1 last edited by
Thank you both Leevi and Wizard57M,
You know leushino, if you're tired of reading negative things about the new Opera browser, maybe you should stop reading these forums. Not quite sure what possesses you to respond to everyone who makes an anti Opera sentiment on these forums. Not even sure how one man can commit so much time and energy to such a cause. I'm sure the Opera developers don't appreciate your attitude of further driving away disappointed Opera users with your "get lost if you don't like it" attitude.
The "average Joe" doesn't know about SeaMonkey or probably even Opera for that matter. I consider myself fairly technical and I was having a difficult time finding an alternative to Opera 12. Given this difficulty, I thought I would share my experience to make it easier for someone else. If people like you want to stay with the new Opera, by all means go for it. This post was obviously not meant for someone who is content with the feature set of Opera 17. Perhaps I can suggest that you occupy your time reading and responding to things that pertain to you.
Also I highly doubt Mozilla would ever discipline a user for posting alternatives to Firefox. I don't even know where you would get that from. And if Firefox did the same thing as the Opera just did, the forums would be so full of anti Firefox posts you would need a to hire a few hundred people to tell them all to get lost and find a new browser.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Leevi:
He isn't stirring up any strife leushino, so give it a rest. And tone it down.
No harm in people trying other alternatives.
Tone what down? Are you serious? Anyone can clearly find alternatives for Opera. Geeze, I have them myself for crying out loud and I'm not even the proverbial "power-user" that Opera appears to have attracted down through the years. He told us NOTHING...zero. My grandson can figure out alternative browsers without this sort of guidance. What he "did" was use that excuse as a means of whining about Opera's current direction. I happen to have faith in Opera's dev team. Do you?
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Salahuddin1:
Not quite sure what possesses you to respond to everyone who makes an anti Opera sentiment on these forums. Not even sure how one man can commit so much time and energy to such a cause.
And what possesses you to give us your browser life history as though it's something each and every one needs to know? Why would you think that there would be any interest in that? You don't like the new browser so you run off to find an alternative. Did it occur to you that you have a very viable alternative in O-P-E-R-A? Yes, instead of giving us other browsers that we can use (which is clearly a slam at the Opera team... "i.e. SEE... we hate the new Opera so much that we're going to use another browser"), you could just as easily continued to use v.12.16 or 11.64. There are many in these forums who continue to make use of them instead of starting threads to stir up trouble. And that's exactly what your intent was in spite of Levi's cutting you slack. You and I both know what your real intent was... right?
You don't want me to counter your post because I see through to the real motivation. You're not helping anyone. FF/TB and SeaMonkey have been mentioned a thousand times as possible alternatives. Big deal. There isn't much left, is there...really.... Maxthon and a few also-ran browsers?
I happen to like Opera and I happen to believe it needs a voice to counter the hysteria that has gripped many of the whiners. THAT'S what possesses me to write.
Buy I'll tell you what. I'll put you on Ignore and I invite you to do the same for me. Okay? :whistle:
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salahuddin1 last edited by
Wow, you really have some serious issues leushino.
Well since you have so astutely unravelled my secret nefarious intentions, I guess I have no choice but to give up and downgrade my version of Opera.
There really is no point trying to argue with you since it doesn't appear like logic is working. However, perhaps you might want to consider the irony of trolling in someone else's post only to follow it by a request to be ignored.
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A Former User last edited by
The description of the Opera Forum is given as “Discuss the Opera desktop browser.”
So this thread is off-topic here, and belongs in the Software forum.
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salahuddin1 last edited by
Originally posted by sgunhouse:
As far as it goes, Firefox has gone the same way as Opera has - recent versions are based on Webkit rather than their previous engine. I wouldn't bother with it yet. Give it some time to stabilize ... same as Opera.
Do you have a link to this? All releases of Firefox scheduled up to 27 are on Gecko link. I also thought Firefox already stated they would not switch from Gecko.
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lodestone last edited by
Originally posted by Salahuddin1:
Cons:
- No mouse gestures. I haven't found a SeaMonkey Add On to implement this, but a Firefox one might exist
- No speed dial
- Interface feels a bit outdated (but you can use Firefox themes)
- I had to manually cut and paste my contacts from Opera Mail into SeaMonkey as there is no easy way to export Opera contacts to use with SeaMonkey (or Thunderbird for that matter)Thank you!
I never have used "mouse gestures" (I use a touchpad and have that finger wisting feature turned off).
I always had speed dial disabled. I don't need blocks on my desktop. I played with blocks when I was a kid, but that's a long time ago. Bookmarks are perfectly fine, thank you. And to have a browser-integrated email client is very handy when also using Sandboxie.
I'm sure I'll be able to make SeaMonkey look fine. I have Opera in minimalistic with only the bookmarks, mail, and contacts icons showing in the left margin. The default browser page is StartPage (Ixquick related). On top it only shows the open tabs and under that on the left the <-, ->, refresh circle, and key icon for logging in. Right of that the search bar.No distracting clutter, only the functional for my needs.
I just downloaded SeaMonkey. I didn't even know it existed as a currently useful browser, I though it was a now obsolete forerunner of Firefox...
I will install it to try it out. But I'll continue to utilize Opera 12.16 for as long as possible. Maybe the developers will keep Opera 12 up. But if not, SeaMonkey might become my next default browser. It won't be Opera "Next."This tread is very helpful to us long-time Opera users who love Opera for all the versions it gave us up to 15.
Thanks again!
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lodestone last edited by
Originally posted by leushino:
I happen to like Opera and I happen to believe it needs a voice to counter the hysteria that has gripped many of the whiners. THAT'S what possesses me to write.
I like Opera too. A lot. Only not the latest versions. But I'm not complaining to the givers of free gifts, like so many of the previous versions also were.
Yet does Opera need someone to defend it? If so it would mean that it's quality would not be good enough to speak for itself... (I'm not suggesting that's the case, but don't you suggest it either by attacking everyone who's not absolutely thrilled with the latest versions.)
Opera is not something to identify with. And if you experience upset, have a look at this short clip to remember that:
"Positivity amidst Negativity - Guided Meditation"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyg087xFDZo -
elrice last edited by
Originally posted by sgunhouse:
As far as it goes, Firefox has gone the same way as Opera has - recent versions are based on Webkit rather than their previous engine. I wouldn't bother with it yet. Give it some time to stabilize ... same as Opera.
Um SG, this is the second time I have seen you post this nonsense about FF transitioning to WebKit and it needs to stop. Mozilla has never and never will use WebKit. Mozilla have co-developed Servo but that is yet to make an appearance in their browsers... it's still all Gecko based mate
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lodestone last edited by
Hopefully Opera 12 will continue to be updated so I can keep utilizing it far into the future. If not, I'll keep it as my default browser for as long as it works well, as it does for me now.
But just for fun I'm looking at this instructive tutorial:
"SeaMonkey - Browse the web, work with mail, chat in IRC - Download Video Previews"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxJe1X_7gNI -
funksoulbro last edited by
Originally posted by Salahuddin1:
You know leushino, if you're tired of reading negative things about the new Opera browser, maybe you should stop reading these forums. Not quite sure what possesses you to respond to everyone who makes an anti Opera sentiment on these forums. Not even sure how one man can commit so much time and energy to such a cause.
Well said. The guy is like some over-defensive fanboy getting angry when people criticise his beloved company. I'm looking around for an alternative to Opera as, like many long-time Opera users, I think the new version is terrible, so I found the OP's post useful.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by elrice:
Originally posted by sgunhouse:
As far as it goes, Firefox has gone the same way as Opera has - recent versions are based on Webkit rather than their previous engine. I wouldn't bother with it yet. Give it some time to stabilize ... same as Opera.
Um SG, this is the second time I have seen you post this nonsense about FF transitioning to WebKit and it needs to stop. Mozilla has never and never will use WebKit. Mozilla have co-developed Servo but that is yet to make an appearance in their browsers... it's still all Gecko based mate
Never say never.
But yeah, Gecko is alive and well. It's just the Fx interface that received an
overhauldowngrade. Not the engine. -
elrice last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by elrice:
Originally posted by sgunhouse:
As far as it goes, Firefox has gone the same way as Opera has - recent versions are based on Webkit rather than their previous engine. I wouldn't bother with it yet. Give it some time to stabilize ... same as Opera.
Um SG, this is the second time I have seen you post this nonsense about FF transitioning to WebKit and it needs to stop. Mozilla has never and never will use WebKit. Mozilla have co-developed Servo but that is yet to make an appearance in their browsers... it's still all Gecko based mate
Never say never.
But yeah, Gecko is alive and well. It's just the Fx interface that received an
overhauldowngrade. Not the engine.Eh? I keep hearing that but most has simply been tucked away by default (such as the menubar which is only an Alt key away or can be set to display). To be honest I strip the GUI back even further (no back, forward, home reload/stop or new-tab buttons) removing any buttons I prefer to hotkey. Now if they decide to go the path of Australis in its current form I might quickly change my opinion, but until then....
Mozilla has said under no terms will they move to WebKit... the eventual transition will likely be to Servo unless that births a new browser altogether which is rather likely. Don't forget Gecko has a much larger developer pool than Presto ever enjoyed which makes troubleshooting an easier process... I dare say if Presto had had that same dev/user base it may not have been ditched the way it has been.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by elrice:
I keep hearing that but most has simply been tucked away by default (such as the menubar which is only an Alt key away or can be set to display).
Custom toolbars, tabs on bottom, small icons mode, find bar at the bottom, etc. Of course back in Fx 4 they already made e.g. cookies management practically impossible to find, so it's just continuing the trend of obfuscating and removing options.
When I say Opera or Firefox seem to be racing to the Chromium-led bottom, I'm not especially likely to be talking about the default interface du jour. I haven't been especially fond of Opera's default interface since 7.5 or so. With the way Firefox is going and Opera is at least adding back a modicum of features, I can only hope Firefox might still be a potential suitor in half a year or so.
Originally posted by elrice:
Now if they decide to go the path of Australis in its current form I might quickly change my opinion, but until then....
The final release of Australis in its current form is due this week, isn't it? Maybe it's time to start changing your opinion.
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elrice last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by elrice:
I keep hearing that but most has simply been tucked away by default (such as the menubar which is only an Alt key away or can be set to display).
Custom toolbars, tabs on bottom, small icons mode, find bar at the bottom, etc. Of course back in Fx 4 they already made e.g. cookies management practically impossible to find, so it's just continuing the trend of obfuscating and removing options.
When I say Opera or Firefox seem to be racing to the Chromium-led bottom, I'm not especially likely to be talking about the default interface du jour. I haven't been especially fond of Opera's default interface since 7.5 or so. With the way Firefox is going and Opera is at least adding back a modicum of features, I can only hope Firefox might still be a potential suitor in half a year or so.
Originally posted by elrice:
Now if they decide to go the path of Australis in its current form I might quickly change my opinion, but until then....
The final release of Australis in its current form is due this week, isn't it? Maybe it's time to start changing your opinion.
Australis hasn't made an appearance outside of the UX trunk yet... not even in the regular nightly builds yet so I'll believe that when I see it. Tabs on the bottom went simply through lack of use... I imagine it was an attempt to cater to Opera transitions that didn't pay off. Custom toolbars still a easy option, though custom buttons would be nice... Find bar seems to have returned to the bottom (unfortunately) but might have changed yet again... use a plugin to extend search functions so I might have missed further changes admittedly.
Cookie management also not so hard, but admittedly I do clear cookies mainly on a per domain basis so easy to source through page info....
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wakingup last edited by
Originally posted by funksoulbro:
Originally posted by Salahuddin1:
You know leushino, if you're tired of reading negative things about the new Opera browser, maybe you should stop reading these forums. Not quite sure what possesses you to respond to everyone who makes an anti Opera sentiment on these forums. Not even sure how one man can commit so much time and energy to such a cause.
Well said. The guy is like some over-defensive fanboy getting angry when people criticise his beloved company. I'm looking around for an alternative to Opera as, like many long-time Opera users, I think the new version is terrible, so I found the OP's post useful.
Ditto to everything you said there. I downgraded to 11.64 which will keep me happy for a good while longer but I found the top post quite helpful. I used to visit this forum every day but when Opera 15 appeared I took a rest on the morning side of the mountain with the occasional look up to see what's been happening, but it seems to have become a much less friendly place to visit these days.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by wakingup:
I downgraded to 11.64 which will keep me happy for a good while longer
I also suppose the best alternative to v.12 is 11. It will be good forever if you like antique software. With custom styles and user scripts it should be able to run indefinitely. My own preference are certainly inclined this way.
I used Opera primarily for email. Everything else, such as the browser, irc, notes, and whatnot was a nice extra. A very very nice extra indeed that I came to depend on.
Looking for a replacement I had to find a good email program first, and hope it's extensible with some browser, irc, etc. During my few decades on the internet, I have already tried pretty much all the graphical tools, so I have decided to give a serious try to Linux command-line tools.
Now after trying mutt, pine, lynx, elinks, irssi, their likes and derivatives since the beginning of this year or so, I can say I have found a complete replacement for Opera. Having gotten them to work for myself, I can now recommend them, but let's be open about the cons
Cons:
- Very steep learning curve. Absolutely not for someone who is not ready to invest time and effort into configuring their own tools.
- Given above, these tools are obviously not for someone who is not going to actually use them. The time and effort of configuring them will only pay off if you really need them or at least plan/want to use them a lot.
- Unintuitive interoperability when you migrate from a graphical desktop. On a graphical desktop, you switch programs by switching windows. In command-line shell you switch programs/operations/tasks by quitting them and opening up another. Or by having multiple shells. Or: there's a tool called 'screen' which allows you to open up and switch "virtual shells", giving you some of the feel of "working in multiple tabs in one window" which has been one of the main attractions of Opera for me.
This multitude of choice may seem good on one hand, but on another it can be confusing, adding to the learning curve, totally unhelpful when you are trying to figure out what's best for you and when struggling with the basics.
One more choice for interoperability is to use a graphical desktop where you shoot up terminals for every program and then switch between the terminals, but this is departing from how Opera works, multiple tabs neatly in one frame.
- Extremely difficult to harmonise the interfaces. Command line means the interface is keyboard-driven. There are no buttons. Menus in some programs (elinks) but not in others (irssi, mutt, lynx), and are usually not editable, unless you rebuild from the program from the source. Same with keyboard shortcuts - may not always be editable in every program. Thus when harmonising the interfaces to achieve better interoperability, it can only go so long.
Pros:
- Extremely rewarding when you finally manage to make them work. Rewarding emotionally, intellectually, rewarding for productivity, etc. A total experience.
- Economical in every way. Friendly to the resources of the computer and friendly to your eyes, when you set the fonts adequately too.
- The way I use them, it largely replicates the experience with Opera. I can easily see where the makers of the original Opera got their ideas from.
Other remarks
Opera's email client borrowed many single-key shortcuts from mutt. The downside of mutt is that it's very difficult to set up with multiple accounts. Works when you use external tools (more learning) for downloading, sorting, and sending email. I am still not sure it's able to send email when I'm elsewhere than my home network. And viewing HTML e-mail means creating a plugin in mutt for a command-line browser/HTML-viewer.
Elinks allows to edit the keyboard shortcuts to better emulate Opera (Opera in turn used to have an "emulate text browser" userCSS). Elinks does bookmarks and history (obviously). It renders HTML and CSS and can be extended to operate Javascript too (I haven't gone through this hassle). For viewing images and dealing with downloads, use external tools (more learning).
Irssi (the irc client) was the easiest to set up. It has a very helpful and active community where they change the settings and configurations which are easy to try out and learn from.
The 'screen' is a program that may provide a nice frame or "window manager (of sorts)" to all the other programs. It allows switching between other programs as if between tabs in a single window. However, it has its own glitches and quirks, which, in combination with the glitches and quirks of the programs themselves may only add to the confusion. Good though when you can make it work. I did
The most difficult of Opera's functions to replicate thus far has been Notes. Linux has an easy editor called nano, but copying and pasting stuff in shell is yet another steep learning curve I have to surmount.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
- Unintuitive interoperability when you migrate from a graphical desktop. On a graphical desktop, you switch programs by switching windows. In command-line shell you switch programs/operations/tasks by quitting them and opening up another. Or by having multiple shells. Or: there's a tool called 'screen' which allows you to open up and switch "virtual shells", giving you some of the feel of "working in multiple tabs in one window" which has been one of the main attractions of Opera for me.
Incidentally tmux is better. You can thank ruario for introducing me to it. Also be sure to check out byobu, previously an enhancement for screen, but now also for tmux.
And here's something you might also find useful: http://fransdejonge.com/2011/06/more-fun-with-screen-and-ssh-with-byobu-automatic-reattaching/
