Where do Opera 12.16 users go now Opera is dead?

[laurentparis]

laurentparis last edited by

Originally posted by leushino:

No one said the QAB was a "proper bookmarks' manager." What "I" said was that bookmarks are available with the QAB. The browser is still under development. If the QAB is not sufficient for you, then continue to use v.12. And that's probably a good reason to stick with v.12 since there are many missing features which you appear to need. The pace is not slow. It's a Herculean job to rewrite a browser from the ground up. I'm sure many power users will leave for other browsers but new users who don't care that much about the myriad of features in a browser will be added to the new Opera. Opera is finally on the right track.

As I said, I'm sure the Opera team is doing its best but from the user's point of view, half a year (when v.18 final is released) to implement such minimalistic bookmark management (as compared to every other browser) IS slow. And it doesn't bode well for all the other missing features.

As for new users, I hope you're right for Opera's sake but honestly I doubt it will attract that many. IE and Safari have the advantage of being installed by default, Chrome has Google's solid fanbase and aggressive marketing... I'm not sure why the non "power users" would want to migrate to Opera assuming they even hear about it. Features and customization were its main advantage and they killed it. And of course other browsers continue to evolve on their own while Opera is painfully trying to catch up. This really doesn't strike me as a winning strategy.

[stng]

stng last edited by

artmil

(Firefox) Actually it is a lot a lot more customizable then opera ever was/will be.

No, it's not.
It's UI is clumsy, not very flexible . At least, not in a same degree as the Opera(Presto)'s advanced interface.
Some Opera features can't be replicated with extensions. Just for an example: MSR/SSR rendering modes, native mouse gestures and keyboard shortcuts (context-dependent, highly customizable and reliable/everywhere working).
Not to mention that the browser with a bunch of extensions will never have a proper integration of its features when it's compared with a mature all-in-one feature rich browser.

Unfortunately it's not as easy as in opera if you don't want to use extensions.

You simply have no choice but install a hell of lot of addons on Firefox to imitate Opera. I accentuate this - it's possible just to imitate Opera/Presto browser, but not fully replicate it.

[funksoulbro]

funksoulbro last edited by

I find it hilarious that the 2-man Opera Defence Force (you guys know who you are) say that there are only a handful of disgruntled users. This forum has been dominated by threads and posted from disgruntled users since Opera released the new version of the browser, lol.

Opera market share in November 2012 = 1.67%
Opera market share in September 2013 = 1.43%

[lodestone]

lodestone last edited by

Originally posted by toumoomuot:

I'm still using 12.6 while stuck in Windowsland, but plan to get a Mac soon and just use Safari. What really kills Opera 15 for me (in Windowsland) is that the keyboard cannot be customised. I can't stand windows standard keybindings; I need unix text editing bindings, etc. With Opera and cygwin I could live in Windowsland, doing most things in them, after having decided that Linux is dead. Not anymore, thanks to Opera being dead as well. I have to go for a Mac... only problem is the god-awful Touchpad on Apple laptops. I want my Trackpoint!

It is said that Mac users are quite fanatic about their brand, but there are exceptions. Before buying my current laptop (HP G62) I asked on a Mac forum if their Macs lasted longer than other -much less expensive- brands. To my surprise I was told by 2 long time Mac users that the "hardware ingredients" -my term- were pretty much the same as other brands installed in their computers. It was more for the looks and feel of their Mac's that they had bought them they confessed. And the "prestige."
They advised me to save myself money if I didn't care for those things. They also said it was an inconvenience to have to send their notebooks to the Mac service for the replacement of the battery. Although one can do it oneself, but it's a bit tricky.

I haven't tried it myself yet, but there is an alternative that on purpose was made for those of us who would like to step over to another OS but that looks like Windows 7: Zorin. It's free for the basic version, and they claim it's much faster than Windows 7. One can have it installed next to one's current OS if one chooses. That way one can switch between the two.

Their site: http://zorin-os.com/index.html

Clips: http://tinyurl.com/85o3u9j

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by LodeStone:

I haven't tried it myself yet, but there is an alternative that on purpose was made for those of us who would like to step over to another OS but that looks like Windows 7: Zorin.

I tried it and I disagree with this. Zorin is KDE, but what resembles Windows best is Xfce with XP theme or similar. Current Xfce desktop environment on any distro (the more themes included the better) makes transition from Windows a snap, whereas KDE remains awkward for them. Tried this on real people.

Originally posted by toumoomuot:

...after having decided that Linux is dead.

What made you decide that Linux is dead? I decided this year that Windows is dead...

[frenzie]

frenzie last edited by

Originally posted by scratchspace:

Easily achieved on Win 7 with a registry edit.

"Registry edit" and "easy(ly)" should seldom or never be used in the same sentence. But if you're talking about 1)"]this, I already mentioned that the Windows 3 style application switcher is only marginally better. If you're truly talking about something similar to Opera's Ctrl+Tab, I can only shake my head in disbelief that they didn't make it the default.

[cooljoebay]

cooljoebay last edited by

The fat lady sang. Now the OPERA IS OVER. All you boot lickers and optimists can take your foolish asses back to the closet. A new browser will eventually come around that intends to give everything that all the "players" won't. It won't be Opera.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

I dunno' but I should have stayed with 12.14 64 bit in my Windows 8. For some reason I abandoned "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and updated to 12.16. What a mistake!! Just spent 2 hours screwing around with restore points, downgrading to 12.14, then I finally got it to go by deleting all date with CCleaner and installing 12.14. It was the old hotmail no login that kept popping up.

Aside from my bitching above I'll hate to see it go(even though I don't appreciate the update changing settings back the way it wants and sticking all those bookmarks back on that I deleted.) On my Toshiba Windows 8 Laptop Firefox 32 bit and Waterfox both load and lock for about 30 seconds before I can type any input. Opera loaded multiple sites with the forums and hotmail logged in.

Except I think now I'll be stuck with some weird glitch in hotmail. It loads slowly now when it was snappy before.
I don't get why nothing runs smooth anymore. Must be doing too much with weird scripting code inside the other browsers.

Just when I got a snappy 64 bit browser you guys quit!!! Dang!!!

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by cooljoebay:

The fat lady sang. Now the OPERA IS OVER. All you boot lickers and optimists can take your foolish asses back to the closet. A new browser will eventually come around that intends to give everything that all the "players" won't. It won't be Opera.

Whatever. The inability to speak in sentences without profanity is sort of a give-away. :troll:

[frenzie]

frenzie last edited by

Originally posted by scratchspace:

But I don't understand this part of what you said: "How am I supposed to tell the difference between the five text documents I've got open? Wait, I know, there's the document title." The document titles are there (even in the thumbnail-based mode). What am I missing here?

Look at the bookcase on your side. (Well, I've got a bookcase on my side. Look at a bookcase.) Imagine if you had to tap each and every book to see what its title was! Instead of glancing over at it, spending a few milliseconds selecting the book, and consequently pulling it out directly, I'd be spending many seconds trying to figure out which book was which. Oh, but each book has a helpful icon. This one deals with language, and this other deals with history. No wait, that really doesn't help me much at all, for I've got many dozens of books in each category.

Originally posted by scratchspace:

Also, the practical advantage to an Opera-style list would seem to be limited to the ability to see whether you need to move forward or backward, and that ability may not actually save time. And even when it does, it typically wouldn't save more than a couple of seconds (though if you're doing this frequently I can appreciate that small benefit).

I've never claimed the Opera Ctrl-Tab switcher is feature complete. What I claim is that it's the only usable foundation to build a proper switcher. If I prefer the taskbar/tabbar over a task switcher, that switcher is broken.

[muggenschiss]

muggenschiss last edited by

I read many threads here and in other forums. Everywhere the majority ist complaining about missing features. What I can't understand are the people not only defending the new browser but even attacking old users for their complaints.

I discovererd in 97 Opera shortly after I started using the internet professionally. And I use it since then. Lived and used it through good and bad versions. But now it is time to say good bye. My bookmarks, all my saved sessions useless. No more easy opening of closed tabs, no more easy tabbing. Mouse gestures,...
Why shall I use a bad copy of already existing browsers?

Right now I'm switching through Firefox, Safari and now and then Opera Next hoping that some things missing will be back soon. But till now, it is just one big disappointment.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by muggenschiss:

I read many threads here and in other forums. Everywhere the majority ist complaining about missing features. What I can't understand are the people not only defending the new browser but even attacking old users for their complaints.

That's not entirely true. What IS happening in the forums IF you read them carefully, is that many of the "old" users are simply complaining that such and such a feature is missing when in fact there are often workarounds. And when informed of those workarounds they either disappear or they continue to argue about something else. In other words, they're not looking for answers or solutions but rather to simply complain. AND as we have a perfect example in this thread, frequently their complaint amounts to little more than the use of profanity. If you expect to be taken seriously, then you need to behave civilly. If there are missing features, ask politely about them and whether or not there are other ways to achieve what you were once able to do. And if there are no ways, then you should post in the proper forum (Opera Wish List) your request that those features be returned. Back in July there were many complaints about the new browser but over the past few months many of those complaints have been put to rest (not all.. but in time it is hoped that they will be).

[frenzie]

frenzie last edited by

I think two windows is already enough to make it an issue. For instance, I have the main Skype window and a Skype conversation window open. Which one's about 6 from the front and which one's about 6 from the back? I don't remember which is the last one I happened to have open a few hours ago.

But I would think it's fairly common to be writing one or more things with your reference materials open? Virtual desktops help a little, but they only go so far.

[j7nj7n]

j7nj7n last edited by

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Look at the bookcase on your side. (Well, I've got a bookcase on my side. Look at a bookcase.) Imagine if you had to tap each and every book to see what its title was! Instead of glancing over at it, spending a few milliseconds selecting the book, and consequently pulling it out directly, I'd be spending many seconds trying to figure out which book was which.

That is a good example. I've been in this situation "tapping" CD cases where I neglected to make a cover (with a spine). The problem here was that the CDs got worn, and the process was much slower than tapping or holding the Tab key.

Although I've never found the Windows Alt-Tab to be unbearably slow, when as long as the switching is fast and my 'visual memory' is not overwritten with blank screens or animations, I can cycle through the titles easy enough.

I feel there is a motion to render the window title obsolete (just like the Menu): Opium window does not show a title bar at the top anymore. Windows NT 6 taskbar buttons don't show the (begginings of) window titles. The new way might turn out to start relying on typographical shapes, enhanced with color, or something Metro-ish.

I completely agree with Frenzic about the XP appearance and its Start menu. :yes:

[frenzie]

frenzie last edited by

Originally posted by scratchspace:

Yes, certainly, though the number of open windows could still be rather small. In any event, you've caused me to think more about installing a third-party list-style application switcher, so thanks for that.

If you have an XP around you should try SmartTab.org. For Windows 7 I can't give any recommendations because simply put I don't care. On Linux I've actually contributed a tiny enhancement or two to fuzzy window switcher, and superswitcher is also worth a look.

Originally posted by j7nj7n:

Although I've never found the Windows Alt-Tab to be unbearably slow, when as long as the switching is fast and my 'visual memory' is not overwritten with blank screens or animations, I can cycle through the titles easy enough.

It's true, the Windows 3-style application switcher isn't horrible. A few years ago Ubuntu defaulted to Compiz with an application switcher that showed one at a time, so you'd have absolutely no idea where in the list you were or how many there were in total.

[biggerabalone]

biggerabalone last edited by

i'm still using the old opera. but i am concerned with how secure it is (since it is not being updated anymore). i've been trying firefox with addons to opera-ize it with varying success. using FVD speed dial helps for me. but i miss the tab vault (trying pocket and other inferior products, but can't find good replacement. plus, firefox is a little slow to start (likely because i've added too many extensions - my fault likely). i've never liked chrome, it slows down your computer's start up (adds startup entries so browser will start faster but computer will start slower ... that way it can claim startup is fastest, classic slight of hand). plus i've never liked the webkits numerous running processes - it's not very light on the system and hard to determine how much resources it uses because of them all ... something like 12 running (why? the old opera had one running process). my biggest problem is my system security. i use a browser protection software that `sandboxes' my browser (called spyshelter). it is superb. however, it has problems with webkit browsers ... in that it will not let them update. that leaves me with firefox and ie. i still haven't given up on the new opera webkit version but it has tough competition: comodo dragon and srware iron browsers (both using webkit and both without tracking and both offering different goodies to entice us). i've been trying them all. opera's advantage is its team: i believe they will progressively make their product better. but iron and comodo have more plug ins and and comodo likes to claim it is a security browser and safer (i does have a secure dns search etc). so to summarize, i'm still using the old opera (but i have every other browser on my windows 7 system also). but for now, it is standards complaint and fast and easy to use, and with spyshelter it is still secure even if it's not updated.

last note: on my linux system, i'm using seamonkey. it has integrated email built into it like the old opera. it is firefox related, so no webkit. and seems to work well. has some addons, but not as many. haven't tried it on windows though.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

i'm still using the old opera. but i am concerned with how secure it is (since it is not being updated anymore).

12.16 should still be secure. Opera has stated that they're still maintaining it for security should any exploits arise, but there are no currently-unpatched reports about 12.16 on vulnerability-report sites like Secunia.

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

i've never liked the webkits numerous running processes - it's not very light on the system and hard to determine how much resources it uses because of them all ... something like 12 running (why?)

The Webkit engine and its deriviatives, by design, open a new/added process for each extension and for each tab running in the browser. Among other things, it's supposed to keep a crash in an extension or tab from taking down the entire browser.

[treego]

treego last edited by

Go with Firefox with the following addons/extensions and you'll feel quite good if you're an avid Opera user from 12.16-and-prior days:
-Add to Search Bar
-All-in-One Sidebar
-Chatzilla (IRC chat)
-DoubleClick ContextMenu
-Email This! Bookmarklet Extension (GMail)
-Feedly Notifier (use this with RSS feeds via Feedly)
-NoScript
-Open Bookmarks in New Tab
-QuickNote
-Session Manager
-SettingSanity
-Tab Auto Reload
-Weather Watcher Live

[biggerabalone]

biggerabalone last edited by

Originally posted by blackbird71:

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

i'm still using the old opera. but i am concerned with how secure it is (since it is not being updated anymore).

12.16 should still be secure. Opera has stated that they're still maintaining it for security should any exploits arise, but there are no currently-unpatched reports about 12.16 on vulnerability-report sites like Secunia.

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

i've never liked the webkits numerous running processes - it's not very light on the system and hard to determine how much resources it uses because of them all ... something like 12 running (why?)

The Webkit engine and its deriviatives, by design, open a new/added process for each extension and for each tab running in the browser. Among other things, it's supposed to keep a crash in an extension or tab from taking down the entire browser.

when you close chrome, i have noted that some extensions/processes sometimes remain open. this adversely affects overall computer performance. not something i would recommend.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

...when you close chrome, i have noted that some extensions/processes sometimes remain open. this adversely affects overall computer performance. not something i would recommend.

I would agree... at least, if the processes don't close fairly quickly after shutting down the browser itself. Processes started in conjunction with an app should terminate with that app, apart from any minor latency due to housekeeping, etc.