Where is the menu bar?
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tradeofjane last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
Yes. What you want may be a picture of a naked mermaid, but what you need in a browser is the ability to navigate and select functions without too much difficulty. For that, you do not need a menu bar at the top. You way want one, but want and need are two different things. You could easily use shortcuts such as Alt P to access the settings, etc. After a month of not being able to use the top menu, if you had no other choice of browser, you would soon learn to do what you need to do without it.
Wow. Could you be anymore arrogant? What someone needs is the ability to chose what preferences they prefer instead of having someone else's forced upon them. I've always used the classic look in Opera. ChrOpera may look perfectly fine to you if you're using a tablet or mobile device, but on the desktop it looks like crap. If I wanted the look and feel of Chrome I'd use Chrome. I sure as hell don't need a preference that I think is ugly and that can't be changed forced on me.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Tradeofjane:
What someone needs is the ability to chose what preferences they prefer instead of having someone else's forced upon them.
Someone else who doesn't know the difference between need and want. The really arrogant users are those who think that the new Opera should be designed around their wants, and resort to insults when their wants are not fulfilled. There is no product called ChrOpera, the Blink version is still called Opera, and there is no sign that that will change any time soon.
Some users want a menu bar at the top — that I have accepted, but it's not a need. I think we can all agree that we need to be able to select items from a menu. That is already easily doable in Opera 18, using the Alt key or the Menu button.
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tradeofjane last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
Someone else who doesn't know the difference between need and want. The really arrogant users are those who think that the new Opera should be designed around their wants, and resort to insults when their wants are not fulfilled. There is no product called ChrOpera, the Blink version is still called Opera, and there is no sign that that will change any time soon.
Some users want a menu bar at the top — that I have accepted, but it's not a need. I think we can all agree that we need to be able to select items from a menu. That is already easily doable in Opera 18, using the Alt key or the Menu button.
And who the hell are you to decide what someone else needs? If someone needs the menu on top in order to use the browser, because that is what they are use to, then that is something they need. They need an interface that THEY are comfortable with, not you. This is something that was present in 12 and should have been at the very least available in 15. And you wonder why long-time users of Opera are pissed. If I wanted an interface that looks and feels like Chrome, I'd be using Chrome.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Tradeofjane:
And who the hell are you to decide what someone else needs? If someone needs the menu on top in order to use the browser, because that is what they are use to, then that is something they need. They need an interface that THEY are comfortable with, not you. This is something that was present in 12 and should have been at the very least available in 15. And you wonder why long-time users of Opera are pissed. If I wanted an interface that looks and feels like Chrome, I'd be using Chrome.
But you don't NEED the menu on to in order to use the browser. You may PREFER the menu to be placed there but that is different from NEEDING it there. People don't NEED an interface with which they are comfortable. They may DESIRE it, but they do not NEED it (PS: are you "getting it" yet?). I'm a long time Opera user (probably longer than you) and I'm not pissed off. Software doesn't piss me off...ignorant people can come close to doing that but not something inanimate like software. If it doesn't suit me, I find a workaround OR I find something else to take its place. Now since you don't like the new GUI of Opera, use the older Presto suite (i.e. v.12.16). It's really very simple but you're making it hard. And if the older version no longer meets your needs then go elsewhere. BUT... you might try "cooling your jets" just a wee bit. It's not good for your health and we certainly don't appreciate it.
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blackbird71 last edited byOriginally posted by leushino:
... you don't NEED the menu on to in order to use the browser. You may PREFER the menu to be placed there but that is different from NEEDING it there. People don't NEED an interface with which they are comfortable. They may DESIRE it, but they do not NEED it (PS: are you "getting it" yet?). ...
For that matter, you don't NEED SpeedDial, Stash, Discover, or Chrome-extension compatibility. You don't even NEED a privacy mode, scroll bars, shortcuts, zoom, auto-updating, themes, full-screen, or countless other things in a browser... just limp along without any of it and you can still "browse", plus your browser might be incredibly fast in all those artificial speed tests so often cited. Moreover, it would be a snap for the devs to code it. I've even got a browser on my system much like that... Off-By-One... fastest browser on earth on a modern quad-core! But almost useless if you don't want to jump through a million hoops at a modern graphics/script-intense website.
The point is that defining what constitutes a "NEED" in terms of browser functions/capabilities/features will always end up being dominated by the personal preferences of each person defining the term. Opera has its view of "need", as do you, I and countless other posters. At the end of the day, what matters most is what Opera's devs think, and whether or not they can be (or will be) persuaded to acknowledge as well other people's pleas about "needs," enough to eventually embody them into Opera's functionality as they did for many years previously. On that will turn Opera's future.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by blackbird71:
For that matter, you don't NEED SpeedDial, Stash, Discover, or Chrome-extension compatibility. You don't even NEED a privacy mode, scroll bars, shortcuts, zoom, auto-updating, themes, full-screen, or countless other things in a browser... just limp along without any of it and you can still "browse", plus your browser might be incredibly fast in all those artificial speed tests so often cited. Moreover, it would be a snap for the devs to code it. I've even got a browser on my system much like that... Off-By-One... fastest browser on earth on a modern quad-core! But almost useless if you don't want to jump through a million hoops at a modern graphics/script-intense website.
Hear, hear!
(Although I wouldn't call e.g. Elinks or Lynx useless; quite the opposite.)
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tradeofjane last edited by
Originally posted by leushino:
But you don't NEED the menu on to in order to use the browser. You may PREFER the menu to be placed there but that is different from NEEDING it there. People don't NEED an interface with which they are comfortable. They may DESIRE it, but they do not NEED it (PS: are you "getting it" yet?). I'm a long time Opera user (probably longer than you) and I'm not pissed off. Software doesn't piss me off...ignorant people can come close to doing that but not something inanimate like software. If it doesn't suit me, I find a workaround OR I find something else to take its place. Now since you don't like the new GUI of Opera, use the older Presto suite (i.e. v.12.16). It's really very simple but you're making it hard. And if the older version no longer meets your needs then go elsewhere. BUT... you might try "cooling your jets" just a wee bit. It's not good for your health and we certainly don't appreciate it.
You don't get to define what someone else needs in order to use a browser. I need my interface to look and feel like it wasn't ripped straight out of Chrome. If you want a copy of Chrome then carry your ass over to Google. I prefer my browser the way it was, which is why I've been using Opera for 10+ years. If Opera wanted to make this migration easier they wouldn't be forcing Chrome's interface on us. So don't be surprised if long-time users are pissed.
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rainspa last edited by
I need the things Opera has provided and I've adapted my browser use to over the years. Hardly surprising there's so many disgruntled posts when a something so totally different comes along.
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A Former User last edited by
And who the hell are you to decide what someone else needs? If someone needs the menu on top in order to use the browser, because that is what they are use to, then that is something they need.
Agree 100%
One would think this guy is another Cheney or Rumsfeld from the Republican gestapo.He is really pissing many of us off with statements like that.
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sotabaka last edited by
Supose that M$ was an automobile manufactor.
They decided to get rid of the steering wwheel and use the small rearview mirror control button instead... OP folowed them in their demential idea.
You get tree(phun intended) choices .. start to drive using a tiny buttopn/stick ... keep the old car ... or buy a different brand.
FYIO I never even gave chrome a chance because IT DIDN'T HAD a menu bar ... If I upgrade from OP12 to a new version I might as well forget opera as a "default browser" and do a complete change ... wich might as well be to a new one from a different brand.
For the time being I'll keep the "old" 12x installed. But the future will tell for how long.
**Pesala
Reclining Buddha
I do not have a single program without menu bar.
You are using Windows I presume. Where is the menu bar for Windows? Oh! It doesn't have one, just a Start button that shows a menu, like Opera since about version 9 or 10.I really feel sorry for those who simply refuse to adapt to the way things are. Change is an inevitable part of progress, and nothing stays the same for ever. I can remember when you had to dial a phone number by turning a wheel with holes in it.
Maybe the Linux version will have a menu bar, but I doubt if it will return to the Windows version. If it never returns, what are you guys going to do? At least if we can customise the menus, we can Fix the Button menu to be just like the old top menu, then there's very little to relearn.**
Windows8 does not ...
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sotabaka last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
Originally posted by videobruce:
I can't believe you said that. What wasted space, I sure as hell don't see any.
With the menu bar enabled, the Windows title bar is also displayed. Your screen shot shows that you're wasting 45 vertical pixels out of 955, so about 4.71% of available screen space. The button menu uses no space at all when not in use, which is any time that you're reading, writing, or looking at pictures/video. The top menu and title bar are always present, whether they are being used or not. Other browsers (Firefox/IE11) at least hide it when it's not in use.
Who cares about space on the screen when now I you want me to spend 1/2 my time looking at the sides to find what previously just took me 1 click - hovering -click ????
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Deleted User last edited by
And I never claimed I DID need any of those things. You are the whiners that NEED this and that in order to function, not I (i.e. Integrated mail has been mentioned). I don't need Discover, Speed Dial, Stash, Chrome extensions compatibility, keyboard shortcuts, privacy mode, zoom etc etc etc. The truth is, I get along fine without most of them and I'm certainly not limping along. There is a difference between need and want. Learn it and stop being so disingenuous, Blackbird.:whistle:
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j7nj7n last edited by
Originally posted by sotabaka:
Change is an inevitable part of progress, and nothing stays the same for ever. I can remember when you had to dial a phone number by turning a wheel with holes in it.
Until a year ago, when I still had a POTS telephone, the switchbox still understood pulse dialing, and it was still possible to tap a phone number substituting for a broken rotary dial. Or you could synthesize the dialing tones with any computer. :lol:
I guess such sending of numbers might be handy when a long code must be typed in a GSM phone. But I don't know how they send numbers.
I wonder if some telecoms still have modem pools running. Those a probably very few.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by sotabaka:
They decided to get rid of the steering wheel and use the small rearview mirror control button instead
It's a very weak analogy, but it would be feasible to remove a car's steering wheel and replace it with a joystick or some other device. No car manufacturer has yet gone beyond the concept stage as far as I know.
Please learn to use the quote link. Select some text in a user's post, and click the Quick Quote link below it. Learning new skills is easier for young people than for those of us who are getting old. At 37 you're not too old to adapt to new technology. Currently, I don't have a clue how to use a mobile phone or iPad, but if that was all I had I would soon learn to use it to send emails etc.
Originally posted by Pesala:
I really feel sorry for those who simply refuse to adapt to the way things are. Change is an inevitable part of progress, and nothing stays the same for ever. I can remember when you had to dial a phone number by turning a wheel with holes in it.
The fact is, Opera has had no top menu bar by default for many years now. I have adapted very easily to using the button menu, not because I had to, but because it works just as well as the top menu, whether using the keyboard or mouse.
Originally posted by sotabaka:
Who cares about space on the screen?
I think most users do, even more so now that mobile devices have smaller screens. IE has had autohide of menus and toolbars for years so that the top menu bar is never visible until it's needed.
Originally posted by videobruce:
One would think this guy is another Cheney or Rumsfeld from the Republican gestapo.
Lose your temper and lose the argument. Some people are so attached to their views and opinions that they cannot remain civil in any discussion. I see that Godwin's Law is really true.
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j7nj7n last edited by
There are currenty too few commands in the menu under the Opera Button to fill a menu bar with. They would first have to add functionality back in, show bookmarks as a menu (leaving the bar as an option to organize them), and perhaps move some settings from the "wasteful" Settings Page on a quickly accessible menu (checkboxes for show images, to enable do not track, etc). But then you'd miss the lovely background picture of people jumping from a cliff.
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Deleted User last edited by
No matter how many times everyone says it, some are just going to argue that this is progress and get used to it. Fine. A ton of users will move to other browsers who still have more options than Opera now has.
The main reason I never ever ever use Chrome is that it has no menu bar. I use it constantly. I don't always have a keyboard within easy reach so a mouse click works great to navigate and read sites. Without a menu bar, unless I want to learn these mouse gesture things (which I've never figured out because I use a mouse with a trackball and I just don't care to learn them) then I'm stuck needing to move my keyboard closer to me or wherever.
We're annoyed with the way Opera has decided to mimic Chrome. Who wouldn't be? The amount of users using Opera will tell the powers that be how much we are annoyed and, if they care, they'll fix it. If not, they'll just keep doing whatever they want to do and we're stuck with it.
I know I'm not in the least bit of a hurry to try Windows 8 and doubt I ever will be. To me, that's a phone user interface, not a desktop one. It's ridiculous and means I have to take 20 some years of learning and relearn something -- most people are very resistant to doing this unless they are paid to do so (you have to do what you have to do at work, not at home).
So time will tell how this pans out. I'm very disappointed. As many have said, Chrome already exists. Who needs another Chrome???
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by bjdobson:
Without a menu bar, unless I want to learn these mouse gesture things (which I've never figured out because I use a mouse with a trackball and I just don't care to learn them) then I'm stuck needing to move my keyboard closer to me or wherever.
You can still use the Button menu with a trackball.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by j7nj7n:
perhaps move some settings from the "wasteful" Settings Page on a quickly accessible menu (checkboxes for show images, to enable do not track, etc).
Not to mention reimplement proxy servers in a sensible manner. Although I generally advocate listening to the OS,* proxy servers are just too primitive and awkward to use in Windows itself.
* For example, why must the Chrome updater run a freaking service at all times instead of simply hooking into the Windows scheduler?
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j7nj7n last edited by
I agree about proxy servers. As I see them, they are specific to browsing (to remove part of content, or to use another address to bypass bans) and rarely needed for other applications that communicate over the internet, because they are more selective and don't filtering. To make all traffic of a computer go through another server, a web proxy is not enough anyway, and some form of VPN tunnel is needed.
But proxy servers need a dialog. Many other options can be put directly on a menu like the quick preferences menu in Opera was. Irrespective on whether this menu gets a hotkey, you would find it on the bar in a particular place (I guess to the center-right of the screen), and quickly access it without hiding the page you're on, or waiting. The "new way" of opening dialogs in full screen doesn't make sense.
