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Opera 20 - Another unhappy loyal supporter

  • @darthmordred you're cherry-picking from the text I wrote. -.- Speed Dial and downloads pop-up are the tip of the iceberg. There are lots of differences you can see if you aren't intentionally blinding yourself.

    I got an example of a minor change you cited to support your argument.
    Counter-argument citing several unimportant aspects between two very similar browsers, and post a link, does not automatically make a valid argument.

    Deal with the fact that we are all using Opera on Blink sure that each version will have it's own personality.
    It's what I believe will happen.

    We are part of the user base OPERA, why trust it will be the best browser soon.

  • Slight correction there, Darthmordred. It is the best browser now 😉 even without all the features, and I do trust it will be even better in the future.

  • I got an example of a minor change you cited to support your argument.
    Counter-argument citing several unimportant aspects between two very similar browsers, and post a link, does not automatically make a valid argument.
    They might be minor and unimportant for you, but for me they're significant and important differences I make use of everyday. And beyond that, they show that Opera is not a carbon copy / clone of Chrome like some people mistakenly affirm and that even in small things (and including the big things) the design choices Opera Software make are quite different than Google's team.

  • @lem729 The fact that I joined these fora on 24th of May is utterly irrelevant to my user history with Opera. You have made an assumption and accusation based on circumstantial data. I made a statement on my use history; you should pay me the curtsey of accepting that.

    @leushino Tell the story as it is, I mentioned this thread in a new thread created with my comment. That thread was closed and I was directed here with, “If you know about that topic than just use it, please.”

    Fanboys aren’t the only people be a voice and the right to use it.

    Yes, I was disillusioned and expressed my disappointment. Such a position doesn’t exclude me from joining fora. They are the place for discussion, both promoting and dissenting. A wise person will take all opinions and treat them as valuable feedback that shows room for improvement and where things are performing well.

    If you had read my original comment, lem729, you would have noticed I did indeed specify areas I felt require addressing.

    Leushin, telling someone if they don’t like it, they should leave is a bully’s tactic.

    Lem279 and Leushino, you two are members just like the rest of us. Try behaving like it

  • Many different kinds of folks use computers. Some of them keep everything auto-updated constantly, as much as they can, and stay abreast of the latest version releases to manually update everything else as soon as they can. Others users only periodically check for version status of software on their systems. And still others only check for updates when some news blurb or comment fragment somewhere moves them to. With software as widely distributed over so many years as Opera, scattered users of Presto Opera are still continually "discovering" that there have been radical version changes from Presto Opera with Blink Opera. Eventually those users find their way into these forums to either observe or ask what is going on... particularly so if they find key (to them) usability elements of the browser are missing, hidden, or radically altered. Those users who haunt these forums continually would be wise to remember that.

    Both in the old MyOpera and the current forums, the internal forum search capabilities have some serious limitations... the current one being much worse than the former one, IMO. When a user comes here with a complaint or problem, his ability to find an existing thread on the same topic depends considerably on whether that user's forum search terms match those terms under which existing threads are parsed. The inability to post in an existing thread is compounded when multiple threads exist on a topic, but many or most have been closed for whatever reasons. Moreover, in the various forums I've been involved with, users who are particularly upset or confused about something have a strong tendency to immediately start a new thread, sometimes out of frustration and sometimes because they simply know no other way to express their concerns. As complaint threads are being squeezed into fewer and fewer threads that are allowed to remain open, a complainant's sense that he is being heard is reduced, and the likelihood that he will read all the many previous posts of a long and growing existing complaint thread collapses to near zero. Users who haunt a particular forum would be well served to understand that.

    Just because a hundred users have already expressed the same complaint about a browser does not mean that complaint doesn't have validity in the mind of yet another user who has just discovered it and comes to the browser forum to express his concerns. When you replace a familiar piece of software of very long standing with something significantly different, this is exactly what you should expect will happen - and both patience and courtesy should constantly be applied in the face of such complaints. It's been a year or so since the first Blink Opera version was released, and some Presto Opera users are still, just now, attempting to adopt it and voicing their concerns with what they discover. And please realize that this process will still be playing out months and months from now. Again, users who haunt the forums should remember this.

  • @mccujo

    You said you were a loyal supporter of Opera for 15 years, but I did note that you had pretty much just joined the forum. All I said was, "Welcome to the forum. And where have you been? In your post you referred to "software companies [meaning Opera] needing to get their arrogant heads out of their behinds." I don't think the forum benefits from that kind of crude language.

    I agree with you blackbird71. The forum search is terrible. But answering the same general complaint every day -- from people who haven't followed at all the change from Opera Presto to the new Opera (or who just want to complain forever) -- is simply impossible. You're right that just because people express the same complaint doesn't mean it doesn't have validity. But it doesn't make it valid either. Opera changed direction, and some people lost features they previously had. Of course, they can still continue to use the old Browser, so in reality, they haven't lost. Anyway the general complaint about Opera blink has been answered ad infinitum. And having this discussion forever -- about why the move to a new browser engine, and why some features have been lost -- is an act of futility. At some point we have to move on.

  • A stickied topic(if that's even possible on this forum) with answers to the most frequently asked question would be very useful.

    You could just point at it when people constantly ask the same thing and a few of them would read that first.

    But with the restriction on editing posts, it's impossible to maintain as a normal user so someone from opera would have to.

  • @samkook

    You're so right. On a lot of issues, where a response or discussion has been helpful. And especially given the forum search situation. Put it in the suggestion box. 🙂 The idea would be, perhaps, an Opera person or moderator(s) can go through the forum to select items for a stickied topic on different subject areas.

  • I concur that some form of prominent FAQ (sticky or otherwise) addressing the most-often-asked questions or most-often-voiced complaints would be extremely useful, at least until the wave of Presto Opera users testing the waters of Blink Opera has greatly subsided. While, on the surface, many of the voiced issues seem 'politically' charged because of the outspokenness of many posters, there's little doubt in my mind that direct, "neutral" explanations could be created for which features from Presto simply aren't present in Blink, which ones are obtainable in some new way (including extensions) different from Presto Opera, and which ones are still present but now embedded some way within other-named features or settings. In watching countless threads come and go here, I've noted some excellent answers and explanations at times presented in threads, so it's apparent to me that good FAQ explanations can indeed be generated without inflaming poster discontent. The challenge would be in creating it in the first place and then keeping it updated as version improvements impact the explanations.

  • Pretty much a load of tripe (but why doesn't that surprise me?). The Big Bad USA. The evil MS empire. The good European browser so misunderstood. Oh how wonderful Presto was but sadly... such poor marketing. What utter nonsense. Man do you need to get over yourself and wake up to reality. Thankfully Opera has done just that and it will be much better off for it in the long run ... yes, minus a few thousand whining geeks but with tens of thousands of new "average" users who couldn't care less about all the ultra configurable nature of Presto.

    Typical pompous and erroneous response from you and no need to get your patriotic panties in a bunch. I said big American companies, emphasis on companies. Of course it's not just my opinion seeing as Opera themselves complained to the EU about the very thing I mentioned which led to Microsoft being sued for antitrust and the inclusion of the browser ballot box for EU Windows installs.

    Opera's desktop numbers have been on a steady decline as well so it would appear that your mastering of tripe is on full display. The future might hold different results but until then your opinion is just that.

  • Well,I had installed the new opera a while back and deleted it. But I did not realize that the progress bar was gone. That was indeed the first thing I noticed when I fist stumbled onto opera desktop about 8 years ago and will not use a browser without it

  • @rlaing0727 In the Android forum area but relevant:

  • I recently installed Opera 26 and, as already said above, it was a huge disappointment.

    Many features that I liked and used to in Opera 12 are gone! F4 panels are gone, Progress bar is gone... all features that made me stick to Opera, although other colleagues laughed at me saying it's the browser used by only me and couple more people in the world.

    Anyway I'm looking for a replacement now, and won't continue with Opera until it improves and returns some of the amazing features that made it different from others.

    I hope this appeal will come to some Opera guys! (although I doubt it)

  • Oh yes, I forgot to mention - CTRL + TAB doesn't switch between two latest tabs, but between all opened tabs - disaster 😞 Now I can use Chrome, there's really no difference...

  • I'm very sad about this Opera's suicide marketing movement of killing "Presto" version to be another Webkit fork.

    New Opera versions lost features used by loyal users, like F12 to be able to disable javascript, connectors and site options, F4 to fast access to bookmarks and other functions of left pane, minimized MDI windows (my favorite), the very fast and usefull feature of selecting some URL and open it clicking on gray backgroud area, size of windows in the title and may other usefull features for advanced users and web developers.

    I can understand the change to a new render engine, but not to remove all the original and usefull features that make Opera a different and better browser.

    Personally I will keep Opera 12.16 as much as I can, but the world is moving. The last Wordpress release make Opera 12.16 unusable to edit new posts, so I'm slowly moving to Firefox, not to the new Opera, because there is no a single advantage to use it.

    I'm a Opera user since 1996, I was a pay user, I would be willing to pay up to $50 a year to have back the lost features, but, you prefer to throw all your loyal users in the garbage.

    Good luck with your new policy.