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From Opera 12 to 20...a giant leap back for mankind

  • mantrhax wrote:
    <great job sabotaging opera browser....
    well. never before firefox looked soo good.>

    You are soooo right!

    Yesterday I installed the latest Firefox-version and had been totally delighted:
    looking brillant, colourful and nice - just fun.

    But: startup-time 16 seconds, though I have only a handful add-ons installed. No way to get this better.

    In oposite: Opera start-time 5 seconds and fast.

    What shall I do with a browser, when I have to wait a long time for coming up, though looking soo good and pretty?

    People complaining here should think before they take time to write anything.

  • I started using Opera some 10 years ago mostly so the browser I used for private browsing in work was different from the one one used for work. I got to like especially, at that time, the speed - important when you had a 256k connection.

    Naughty, I know, but I liked the Crtl+H feature that hides the browser to the notification area. That went and was replaced by Crtl+shift+H (Ctrl + H brought up the history instead) but you had the option to change it back - I'm using 12 here and can still do it.

    I had to restore my computer at home and that now has version 20 - it looks to be faster - but I miss that feature.

    Speed dial is probably the feature that kept me using the browser even when its compatibility with some websites was iffy.

    I'm not going to go back at home but will keep 12 for the foreseeable future at work.

  • mantrhax wrote:
    You are soooo right!
    Yesterday I installed the latest Firefox-version and had been totally delighted:
    looking brillant, colourful and nice - just fun.
    But: startup-time 16 seconds, though I have only a handful add-ons installed. No way to get this better.
    In oposite: Opera start-time 5 seconds and fast.
    What shall I do with a browser, when I have to wait a long time for coming up, though looking soo good and pretty?
    People complaining here should think before they take time to write anything.

    All browsers start up times seem to be longer than they used to be but your times are a gross exaggeration. On an old P4 system, Firefox takes 5 seconds and Opera takes 4 seconds. That time is negligible imo but what isn't is the hour or so spent using them. Firefox works the way I want it to because it affords me the flexibility to manipulate it to suit the way I work/browse. Something Presto Opera was the best at. That's the main reason I used it and could not stand using Chrome.

    I really can't understand either how some can make the excuse that Blink Opera is not a finished product!? Then why put it on the market? It should have been developed alongside the far more polished Presto version but then again, Chrome still looks and feels like an unfinished product to me so....

  • I started using Opera some 10 years ago mostly so the browser I used for private browsing in work was different from the one one used for work. I got to like especially, at that time, the speed - important when you had a 256k connection.
    Naughty, I know, but I liked the Crtl+H feature that hides the browser to the notification area. That went and was replaced by Crtl+shift+H (Ctrl + H brought up the history instead) but you had the option to change it back - I'm using 12 here and can still do it.
    I had to restore my computer at home and that now has version 20 - it looks to be faster - but I miss that feature.
    Speed dial is probably the feature that kept me using the browser even when its compatibility with some websites was iffy.
    I'm not going to go back at home but will keep 12 for the foreseeable future at work.

    Good story. I hope stuff like this gets noticed rather than the rants which the sycophants prefer to put all the focus on

  • 2 weeks ago I decided to give the "new" Opera browser, Opera 20 a new chance. I also was one of those people who did not like Opera 15 when it was released, and have been using v. 12.16 meanwhile.
    And now, after 2 weeks with Opera 20 I finally begin to like the browser. It is clean, simple and maybe more stabile than older presto versions. Actually I think I will delete Opera 12.16 from my computer because I don't see any features in old Opera 12.16 that I will be missing.

    Happy surfing.

  • Great to hear, Jarmush, instead of the same tired rants we've been subjected to for months now. I'm sure you'll find that as time goes on the new browser will be even more amazing. Happy surfing indeed.

  • Yhym... when more add-ons like Smart RSS appears...
    opera is better than chrome only for two reasons. First: Built-in speed-dial
    Second: Built-in Gestures.
    I could also mention password manager, but it's still buggy...
    And Opera doesn't have bookmark manager.

    As for startup times - these are bad jokes in all modern browsers.

  • I will delete Opera 12.16 from my computer because I don't see any features in old Opera 12.16 that I will be missing

    If a user accustomed to Opera 12.16, with its painfully slow rendering and increasing incompatibility, isn't going to miss any of the features that make Opera 12.16 distinctive/valuable, then there's no reason whatsoever to use Opera 12.16 and every reason to abandon it (for anything else), in which case Opera 20 would have to look good, wouldn't it? I'm glad for the poster that Opera 20 is working for him, but this is not a persuasive endorsement of Opera 20.

  • Doesn't need to be a 'persuasive endorsement'. In point of fact, nothing would please you anyway other than Opera abandoning its course (which it will not do) so whether you are persuaded or not is of no consequence.

  • Doesn't need to be a 'persuasive endorsement'. In point of fact, nothing would please you anyway other than Opera abandoning its course (which it will not do) so whether you are persuaded or not is of no consequence.

    Of course it doesn't "need" to be a "persuasive endorsement", and neither do the "tired rants" you refer to need to be persuasive critiques, unless you hold critiques to a higher standard than commendations(?).

    My point was not a matter of whether I am persuaded that Opera Blink is or will be a good or very good (or, to use your PR-style verbiage,"even more amazing") browser; rather, my point was that jarmush's post is no more persuasive than most of the "tired rants" that you persist in commenting on. More pleasant, yes; but not more persuasive. As for "consequence", none of the opinions, pro or con, of Opera Blink expressed here are of any consequence as far as Opera ASA is concerned; the only "consequence" of any posts here is that which may exist for some users of this forum.

    BTW, while I'd prefer it if Opera ASA were to add certain Presto features to Blink,I may well end up using Opera Blink as my main browser, as I choose not to use extensions.

  • That's the spirit.

  • I've just installed Opera 20 yesterday, and after couple hours of fidling, I found it awful. It turned into Chrome, but with every bad thing about it that caused I didn't use it. I've used Opera since 2006, and stayed loyal to it ever since, and... it should just focus on further improving Opera 12.

    First of, I loved Opera for having minimalistic approach, with cards/menu on one line, and below the url bar with search. When you clicked it, a third bar appeared with bookmarks. In 20 there's no way to customize it, it took a while to find how to make bookmarks appear, but the third bar takes just so much space, and it won't hide. That's a huge minus and step back from the big space 12 offered.

    Then you have the starting page. In 12 you could easily customize, the google bar wasn't' necessary, though it was small and you never paid any attention to it. The windows to sites (I'm sorry, I don't know their name in English) were easily available, and you felt that the quick start page was all about them. In 20 you have a huge google bar with unnecessary options, and the windows are, well, you can't customize them at all. All the options were removed, as if the devs thought we were too stupid to use them. You CAN'T customize the looks at all anywhere (outside the background of quick start. Even more, now in 12 it automatically changed the size of windows, and in 20 they forgot to implement it, and instead of quick start page, you have scroll down for more page. Ugh.

    Another nifty future of previous Opera version was opening a window in the same page. Many links try to open in a new card, but right clicking the link and choosing "open" would open the link on the same page. In 20 it's gone. Why? No idea, maybe because Chrome also didn't have it? Or dunno. It just makes browsing more annoying now.

    There are also such small things like, hovering over a link, it would show the url next to the cursor after a while. Now it's on the very bottom, just like every other browser out there.

    There was something else I've spotted after couple hours of using 20, which really annoyed me and was a step back from 12, but I've already forgotten about it. All in all, I really don't want to use Chrome 20 ever again, and will just wait for Opera 13 with a new engine or something, that would be more compatible with more demanding sites.

  • There was something else I've spotted after couple hours of using 20, which really annoyed me and was a step back from 12, but I've already forgotten about it. All in all, I really don't want to use Chrome 20 ever again, and will just wait for Opera 13 with a new engine or something, that would be more compatible with more demanding sites.

    Pretty much everything you've said has already been said countless times so I'm thinking you haven't been following the Opera news very closely. To begin with, Opera Presto (i.e. the old version) is dead. Some of that development team are gone and some have been reassigned to the new browser. Opera Presto has not been updated in over a year (other than a few security updates) and it won't be updated so there will be no version 13 with a "new engine". My advice is to stick with the older v. 12 until such time as it is no longer compatible with your favorite sites. That is your only viable option short of going to another browser since you have such disdain for the newer Opera browser.

  • For me Opera ended at 12. No newer versions are worth using even for an hour.

  • I think most people using internet for surfing, looking for information and checking lates gossip on social media. For this purpose they only need a clean and simple browser, like Opera 20. My guess is also that most people using Opera don't know a sh.. about all technical stuff and add ons for their browser. when I look at computers to friends or people at work I have never seen someone having more than 10-15 folders with bookmarks.

    So, get used to Opera 20, I love this browser.

  • I think most people using internet for surfing, looking for information and checking lates gossip on social media. For this purpose they only need a clean and simple browser, like Opera 20. My guess is also that most people using Opera don't know a sh.. about all technical stuff and add ons for their browser. when I look at computers to friends or people at work I have never seen someone having more than 10-15 folders with bookmarks.
    So, get used to Opera 20, I love this browser.

    Exactly. It's a hard-sell message to those who think of themselves as "power-users" but the reality is that number of users is very small compared to the majority who don't need to configure everything under the sun. Speed... compatibility... stability. Opera 20 has all of this. The Opera Team is going in the right direction. Sure it will lose some old-timers who insist upon having the new browser set up exactly as the old, but it will gain many others who don't want or need this AND who do not trust Google and therefore would not consider using its Chrome browser.

  • I think most people using internet for surfing, looking for information and checking lates gossip on social media. For this purpose they only need a clean and simple browser, like Opera 20. My guess is also that most people using Opera don't know a sh.. about all technical stuff and add ons for their browser. when I look at computers to friends or people at work I have never seen someone having more than 10-15 folders with bookmarks.
    So, get used to Opera 20, I love this browser.

    Exactly. It's a hard-sell message to those who think of themselves as "power-users" but the reality is that number of users is very small compared to the majority who don't need to configure everything under the sun. Speed... compatibility... stability. Opera 20 has all of this. The Opera Team is going in the right direction. Sure it will lose some old-timers who insist upon having the new browser set up exactly as the old, but it will gain many others who don't want or need this AND who do not trust Google and therefore would not consider using its Chrome browser.

    I think you guys are too busy smelling your own farts. You grossly underestimate how many people are not just looking to be entertained but actually get some work done. That is a much larger demographic than the power user crowd.

    Also, if one does not trust Google why would Opera be an option? It uses the same engine as Chrome that Goolge contributes to. You cannot get rid of Google as a search option and only power users are going to even figure out how to remove it from the speed dial. You also need a Google account in order to have access to many of the extensions at the Chrome store which can be used with this browser and with so few options in Opera's repository, it becomes almost a must.

  • @jarmush

    For this purpose they only need a clean and simple browser, like Opera 20.

    OK, sounds reasonable, but what's wrong with Chrome, really? Seems like just the browser for those people. Opera, on the other hand, has always been known for its "power-user" features in the first place.

    @leushino

    AND who do not trust Google and therefore would not consider using its Chrome browser.

    And why the hell would I trust Opera then? After they betrayed their main userbase for some obscure reasons and since their browser is also close-sourced project just as Chrome, those two browsers don't make much difference to me in every sense.

  • Ha! So who do YOU trust? Tell me and you can be assured that there are a lineup of users who would tell you you're placing your trust where it isn't warranted.

    Opera did not betray anyone. Opera is trying to survive and I don't call that "obscure" reasons. The old browser never attracted much of a userbase and it was time for a change given the fact that Presto was increasingly difficult to correct (the truth is - it was a mess and Opera could not keep it compatible with many popular sites).

  • Ha! So who do YOU trust? Tell me and you can be assured that there are a lineup of users who would tell you you're placing your trust where it isn't warranted.
    Opera did not betray anyone. Opera is trying to survive and I don't call that "obscure" reasons. The old browser never attracted much of a userbase and it was time for a change given the fact that Presto was increasingly difficult to correct (the truth is - it was a mess and Opera could not keep it compatible with many popular sites).

    Yeah, I agree that site compatibility was one issue plaguing Opera but the real fact is, Opera ASA is a small Norwegian company and no matter what, it will never be able to compete with large American corporations. The "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" approach seems to be an even bigger failure however according to the usage stats that have Opera on a consistent decline. Alienating your loyal users in search of new fish in a sea you could never swim in is a bad gamble imo. Opera needs to be a specialized browser rather than a clone to big brother

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