opera is not what it used to be

lando242

lando242

This reasoning is somewhat lame.
I cannot be so hard to re-implement some of the most wanted old features....

Clearly you've never programmed before. Just because you might have some of the same people working on a project doesn't mean you can just magic up a few hundred of pages of design documents, a couple hundred thousand lines of code, test it for function and compatibility and then release it. There is a reason why programmers get paid so much money, its a difficult job. People that don't program think its easy. Try it some time. I dare you clone something as simple a text adventure game from the 1970s in C or C++ in a weekend and have it come out without any bugs when you're done.

Think about it dude. If it was so easy, why did it take the dev team so long to get to Opera 12 to begin with? Look at Vivaldi. Some of the same people made it that worked on the old Opera, yet months later its still a mess. A promising mess but still a mess.

EDIT: Hey, it finally posted. This is that delayed post I mentioned.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Think about it dude. If it was so easy, why did it take the dev team so long to get to Opera 12 to begin with?

As you may know Opera 12 did not just appear it was a developement stage from earlier versions. Actually I started working with Opera 5.0 when it became freeware (although ad-sponsored), and I have seen the constant flow of improvement until v12. Sure there were some setbacks (i.e. widgets which were soon abandoned) but there was an overall developement towards improvement until Opera 15 was released. And this is waht I am complaining about.

It is as if Windows 10 would be released only with the functionality of Windows 3.2 and the developper stating that it took sooo long to develop windows 8 one should just wait.... (this is not to say that I consider windows 8 a good OS :-))

See my point?

A Former User

As you may know Opera 12 did not just appear it was a developement stage from earlier versions. Actually I started working with Opera 5.0 when it became freeware (although ad-sponsored), and I have seen the constant flow of improvement until v12. Sure there were some setbacks (i.e. widgets which were soon abandoned) but there was an overall developement towards improvement until Opera 15 was released. And this is waht I am complaining about.
It is as if Windows 10 would be released only with the functionality of Windows 3.2 and the developper stating that it took sooo long to develop windows 8 one should just wait.... (this is not to say that I consider windows 8 a good OS :-))
See my point?

Its not the same. Yeah Opera 12 was developed very long time but the features are already invented (tabs, tabs stacking, bookmarks, combinated adress bar, buttons, mouse gestures and all behavior) so inventing things is already done. You have to only implement things that you invented. So its not the same as develop whole software from scratch.
Its developers fault that they want to invent some new stuff from scratch (that is already invented) instead of adapt good old features.

lando242

lando242

@cyberbrat

It is as if Windows 10 would be released only with the functionality of Windows 3.2 and the developper stating that it took sooo long to develop windows 8 one should just wait....

They had to start over though. All they had to build on was a rendering engine. The interface, the features, everything had to be recreated from scratch because the old interface was not compatible with the new rendering engine. You program something with only an engine to start with. Just because the ideas are there doesn't mean you have the man hours to implement them. Ideas are cheap. Work costs money and time.

@airforce25228

You have to only implement things that you invented. So its not the same as develop whole software from scratch.

As I said, coming up with an idea is one thing, making it happen is a different story. You have to pay someone to write the code, someone to test it. Test it not just with the other moduals but with different operating systems and system configurations. Just because you have an idea doesn't mean you can snap your fingers and the code just appears. I've done programming, its not easy. Its hard. Damn hard. And writing it is maybe 40% of the task. The rest is troubleshooting, testing and tracking down bugs.

How many programmers does Google have working on Chrome? How long were they working on it before its first public release? There were working on a browser on and off for SIX YEARS before its first beta release. Even then they hired programmers away from the Mozilla Firefox dev team to get jump-started. All the ideas were already there, yet it still took them years, why? This was with some of the best and brightest programmers money can buy and a huge budget. Because its no. easy. task. You can't just brainstorm a feature, write out some pseudocode on the back of a napkin and have some monkeys in the back knock out a module over the weekend.

You two seem to have serious misconceptions about how long these kinds of things actually take. Please, enlighten us; how many days/weeks/months should it take a team of say, 40 programmers, to write a web browser from the renderer up? Complete features and all?

A Former User

They are just lazy developers. Sorry but they have almost all the work. They have finished browser core from chrome - no work here. They have features from old Opera - no new inventions here. So all what they have to do is build ONLY features aroud browser core and then test it. 2 years to program few features you have to be kidding me?

Someone said that they done this new Opera because maintaining old core was hard so whats hard now?

leocg

leocg Moderator Volunteer

They have finished browser core from chrome - no work here.

Incorrect. They have to do tests and fix intake issues before a new Chromium build can be incorporated to Opera.

They have features from old Opera - no new inventions here.

And those features work in Opera Presto. For they to work in Opera Blink, they need to be re-coded.

Also, as said, they don't want to recreate the old Opera Presto in the new Opera Blink. Opera Blink is a new product, with different features and a different target.

lando242

lando242

They are just lazy developers. Sorry but they have almost all the work. They have finished browser core from chrome - no work here. They have features from old Opera - no new inventions here. So all what they have to do is build ONLY features aroud browser core and then test it. 2 years to program few features you have to be kidding me?
Someone said that they done this new Opera because maintaining old core was hard so whats hard now?

Its clear you have no idea what you are talking about. Your expectations are completely detached from reality. Coming up with the features is the easy part, programming them is the hard part. Not the other way around. Its clear you've never written a line of working code in your life. Just quit crying about this and educate yourself. Otherwise you will continue to embarrass yourself.

A Former User

I didnt say that there is no work. I said that there is less work. Thats their problem if they want to reinvent similar features again from scratch for some reason. I dont care if Im wrong about how long it will take but its not imporatnt at all. Users dont care about that. Users want working software and they dont care what developers should do. If they cant handle that they should wait more time before they killed old Opera and bring new one. Meanwhile they should developing some preview or beta not final product that is still beta after 2 years.

A Former User

$lando242 "@ozzythaman The first several lines of your post and most sections of it are unreadable. I have no clue what you are even talking about half the time. Please use proper punctuation in the future."

have you noticed any edit button in the forums?

i think not.

i suppose this forum system was custom built by opera programmers.

for your information,

i did use proper punctuation and formatting in my post,

this custom built forum decided to change my formatting into what you see at the top.

.

as for your posts, i find them very problematic.

what is the point of defending the status quo, about how opera is at the current version?
the point is many people have used opera, i have, for many many years, and have started experiencing problems that they didnt before. arguing that they are not having the same experience is pointless.

all you have to do is say that it takes time to re add the features.

The reality is, the developers will only add them if they see them as important.

if there are features that many have gotten used to, and the current developers dont even know about or think are important, then they will not be added any time soon.

especially if opera developers dont actively search for new new features that the users want added.

if they only want an adequate functioning opera then they, as anyone defending the current version, will be satisfied with what is available today.

someonepl

someonepl

For those of you who are not satisfied with new Opera: try Otter Browser (Otter Browser aims to recreate the best aspects of the classic Opera [12.x] UI using Qt5)