Opera 15/16/17/18/19/20+ - The Chrome Wars
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Deleted User last edited by
It's 2014 now. RAM is cheap and modern computers have no problem handling today's browsers. I'm currently using a five year old Dell and I NEVER have crashes with any of the browsers (just ordered a new Lenovo but only to take advantage of the touch screen since my older Dell is still stable with all these programs).
Frenzie, I was not referring to you regarding the pushing of Firefox. I'm using Firefox myself (v.26) along with Opera 18, IE 11 and Chrome 31. I fully agree with Haavard that version numbers no longer mean much. As I mentioned earlier, many manufacturers are stopping the numbering of iPads, Antivirus programs are killing the version numbers which previously used dates and browsers are all on rapid release cycles. Do I like it? Not really... but I can't change it so why complain about it? It is what it is and no amount of whining will change it.
And as for the bloating, I don't care about it. My computer handles the resource requirements fine and my new computer will handle them even better. Those who want to hang on to old operating systems (i.e. XP) and old computers are going to find themselves in an increasingly dangerous environment. Better to update your stuff and move with the tide. And moving may mean leaving Opera for SeaMonkey or Firefox or what have you. In a round about way it reminds me of those members who still believe that Opera will reverse its decision on dismantling MyOpera. If only they can get enough signatures on a petition! If only they can convince Opera that his is a bad move! If only! We all know that this is simply not going to happen and that the only prudent thing to do is export your files to a new home while you have time. Prepare rather than wringing your hands in despair. And the same goes for this switch from Presto to Blink. They're not going to reverse their decision. It's too late and there's too much money and time invested now. So... you move 'with' them or you leave. You can move 'with' them by continuing for a time with the older version but keeping a copy of the new version on your computer as well. You can also make your voice known in the Dev. blogs so that they know what features you would like to see. But making endless swan song posts here is of little use. I suppose it's understandable due to the frustration, but it's also pretty much a waste of time and energy.
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Deleted User last edited by
Since I'm getting some visits from this topic and these forums are going to be disabled anyway (coincidentally at the time when first beta is planned to be released, if current speed will be kept) I've decided to blow dust from my old account.
@woj-tek, thanks for sharing link here, I wasn't brave enough to do that.
Originally posted by Pesala:
If you expect or hope for a complete copy of Opera 12.16 you will inevitably be disappointed. Start looking for another browser now. If you're willing to adapt, and install a few extensions, you may find it worth upgrading before Opera 12.16 becomes obsolete.
Don't be so pessimistic, Rome wasn't built during one night.
It won't be clone, but it will be inspired as much as it is possible, makes sense and is doable.If someone has more questions then I suggest to ask them on IRC (#otter-browser on freenode), I'm planning to expand FAQ too.
BTW, project management really eats lots of time, more than coding itself.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Emdek:
Don't be so pessimistic, Rome wasn't built during one night.
I am not being pessimistic at all — just realistic. I said five months ago to Give it a Year, before it would be worth discussing whether it would make the grade.
Then I said “I cannot customise my shortcuts, gestures, search engines, etc.” — and that is still the case, except for search engines, though they are still not as customisable as in Opera 11.64.
How long do you expect users to wait? One year, two, three? I can use Opera 11.64 for the rest of my life — I doubt if others will.
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Deleted User last edited by
@Pesala, I think we have some kind of misunderstanding here.
I don't believe at all that new Opera will fulfill all needs of old power users accustomed to classic 12.x.
It may regain basic stuff but it takes extremely long (I'm 99% sure that one year passed since decision to move on was done internally and work started, or will pass soon) and since I've read in late May that some of features won't return for sure I've decided that I have to do something with that (repository was created around June 1st).Sadly to say I'm afraid that myself I've done more progress during two months (real work started in November, as Opera hasn't shown signs of returning to normal, not even releasing promised binaries for Linux) than whole team (yes, it is not a secret that desktop wasn't profitable enough and team is now smaller, but still it is a team, of paid developers :-))...
Maybe Opera will revive, but with great cost to itself and old users.
I cannot wait for eternity on old 12.x. -
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by Emdek:
If someone has more questions then I suggest to ask them on IRC (#otter-browser on freenode), I'm planning to expand FAQ to
I can't seem to find it on FreeNode, Europe.
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Deleted User last edited by
@Frenzie, that is weird:
- Welcome to rothfuss.freenode.net in Paris, France, EU! Thanks to
- the ISVTEC for sponsoring this server!There are currently 16 users connected.
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stng last edited by
Pesala
I am not being pessimistic at all — just realistic. I said five months ago to Give it a Year, before it would be worth discussing whether it would make the grade.
Then I said “I cannot customise my shortcuts, gestures, search engines, etc.” — and that is still the case, except for search engines, though they are still not as customisable as in Opera 11.64.
How long do you expect users to wait? One year, two, three? I can use Opera 11.64 for the rest of my life — I doubt if others will.
Is there is place for optimism?
Seems that you havn't read the interview with their PR team that related to future plans.
They have no goal, technical abilities and managment decision to rebuild the great Opera browser.
Chropera is a death born child. It should even be call a web-browser (the "shell" is better term). -
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by Emdek:
@Frenzie, that is weird:
- Welcome to rothfuss.freenode.net in Paris, France, EU! Thanks to
- the ISVTEC for sponsoring this server!There are currently 16 users connected.
I'll take another look in a bit.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Emdek:
Don't be so pessimistic, Rome wasn't built during one night.
I'm afraid there is a little misunderstanding.
Methinks that Pesala referred to the new Opera Blink while you are talking about Otter.As far as I'm concerned I've lost all hope for the new Opera Blink. After one year of developement, Opera's new shell for Blink still reminds me of a half-baked Beta. Besides, their 'new vision' doesn't inspire confidence at all. To me at least...
In contrast, I like your idea of a modular browser and the idea of "a web browser controlled by the user, not vice-versa".
I've tested Otter and for an early Alpha it's more than OK. I'll keep an eye on this project/browser.
IMHO, at this early stage it's a little bit early/counterproductive to popularise Otter on different (software) forums.
However once becoming more mature and keeping its promise/slogan, be assured that I will.I wish you endurance with this project because it is a fantastic challenge for an one-man team
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Deleted User last edited by
Krake, thanks.
Yeah, it is early, this is why I've focused to put all basic stuff into alpha. Some attention is important, gives motivation.
Also keeping it "secret" for too long could have some not nice side effects...
I've tried to ensure that it will be in state good enough to attract current and former users of classic Opera and give them some hope before they will forgot that there existed browser for power users and will move to Firefox etc.The "one-man team" starts slowly transitioning to real team, hence I'm now spending more time on management that coding itself.
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opajanusz18 last edited by
Moim zdaniem nie ma sensu rozwijać tego projektu (18.19...).Bez funkcjonalności która miała opera 12.16 (presto) ta obecna przeglądarka (klon chrome) z niszowej stanie się zupełnie niedostrzegalną przez użytkowników.Szkoda pieniędzy,czasu i zaangażowania twórców skoro nie wzięto pod uwagę naszych uwag.
In my view, it makes no sense to develop this functionality projektu.Bez which was opera 12.16 (presto) is present browser (Chrome clone) of niche will become completely invisible by użytkowników.Szkoda money, time and effort artists since no account was taken of our observations. -
stevenjcee last edited byOriginally posted by leushino:
And as for the bloating, I don't care about it. My computer handles the resource requirements fine and my new computer will handle them even better.
You may not care about the bloating, but when one browser uses almost SEVEN GIGS OF RAM, it messes up my computer, which has 12 gigs, driving my remaining balance far too close to zero, so I do care, and think this much bloating is unsatisfactory...
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blackbird71 last edited byOriginally posted by StevenCee:
... when one browser uses almost SEVEN GIGS OF RAM, it messes up my computer, which has 12 gigs, driving my remaining balance far too close to zero, so I do care, and think this much bloating is unsatisfactory...
That certainly is a lot of RAM usage. How many tabs/SpeedDials, extensions, or whatever else does Opera have open when the usage climbs that high? (And which Opera version?)
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greekonsun last edited by
Originally posted by leushino:
And as for the bloating, I don't care about it. My computer handles the resource requirements fine
thats why you're a complete selfish idiot
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by magellan42:
Now, if one guy can make a simple but working Opera-like browser with Webkit in two months, what the (bleep) the Opera developers did last year beside, ahem, polishing their magic flute?
Calm yourself, please. He didn't make a browser with webkit but with QtWebEngine.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by sergiol:
Calm yourself, please. He didn't make a browser with webkit but with QtWebEngine.
By integrating Chromium into QT.
And what is Opera ASA doing? Aren't they integrating (Google's) Blink into their new shell?
You might explain us the difference -
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tradeofjane last edited by
Originally posted by haavard:
The user interface was made from scratch, so it is not a copy. Chrome did not invent the basic browser interface, and we had to start somewhere to get the new version off the ground (namely with a solid foundation).
So it's just a coincidence that they happened to build from scratch a browser interface that looks like Chrome while also copying Chrome's extension system and rapid release cycle? And if Opera wanted to start somewhere they should have started with an interface that was more like it was in version 9 or at the very least 12. Tell me what does the new Opera look more like, Opera 12 and under or Chrome? It has more in common with Chrome than it does with its former self. I'm sure the people at Google are just laughing their ass off at how desperate and pathetic Opera is in trying so hard to be like them. I don't want a wannabe browser. I want the innovation and features that drove me to use Opera in the first place.
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blackbird71 last edited by
Originally posted by Tradeofjane:
...So it's just a coincidence that they happened to build from scratch a browser interface that looks like Chrome while also copying Chrome's extension system and rapid release cycle? ... Tell me what does the new Opera look more like, Opera 12 and under or Chrome? It has more in common with Chrome than it does with its former self. ...
If the rendering engine is the foundational code of the browser (and it is), one might logically expect it to set many of the limits and boundaries of how the end result might look, regardless of the effort applied in designing a user interface. Whatever else, you have to build a round barn on a round foundation... you don't really build a square one on such a foundation. So there will be structural resemblances between all browsers based on the same rendering engine, no matter what else the developers might do or wish. However, over time and with enough creativity, features and forms of implementation can eventually be found that cross over or get around some of the limits and boundaries imposed by the rendering engine design. At that point, distinctive features can and will appear between different designs built on the same foundation.
But that round barn, while it might be made somewhat square-ish as it rises, will never be a fully square barn if the foundation remains round. Hence Blink Opera will never become just like Presto Opera was, though it may develop some similar features... nor does Opera intend to try to square that circle - and they've stated as much. What New Opera will ultimately become is yet to be seen... and how long it will take to "come into its own" will probably be greater than many would hope (probably including Opera ASA itself). At this point, all we users can do is wait, watch, and see...
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by blackbird71:
If the rendering engine is the foundational code of the browser (and it is), one might logically expect it to set many of the limits and boundaries of how the end result might look, regardless of the effort applied in designing a user interface.
Hate to say it but this is not wholly true.
You can convince yourself by looking at K-Meleon as an example.K-Meleon's development ceased some time ago so I'm not advertising it as an alternative browser.
It was basically a two-man work. One programmer responsible for the core browser and another fellow working on the macro language which replaced XUL. Both of them working on K-Meleon in their spare time.You can test the old K-Meleon's portable package to compare it with Firefox (of that time - 2010) since both are using Gecko (layout engine).
