Here are some suggestions for those looking for alternatives to Opera 12 (and use Opera Mail)

j4jasbir

j4jasbir

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

Originally posted by j4jasbir:

Empty trucks(new opera) run faster than loaded trucks, so shall we start running empty trucks.

I don't think that relation between the features *in the UI* and in the *engine* used to render the pages that people come up with is correct...

Try firefox/opera with and without plugins,addons . You will see the difference.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

If you aren't a very new Opera user you should know that Opera 10.50 and a subsequent version that I don't remember very well of beat Chrome in the speed tests at the time it was launched.

Kindly read again my post as I don't care about speed tests.If I had cared about speed test or reviews, then I would have never used opera as my main browser.

A Former User

Originally posted by j4jasbir:

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

Originally posted by j4jasbir:

Empty trucks(new opera) run faster than loaded trucks, so shall we start running empty trucks.

I don't think that relation between the features *in the UI* and in the *engine* used to render the pages that people come up with is correct...

Try firefox/opera with and without plugins,addons . You will see the difference.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

If you aren't a very new Opera user you should know that Opera 10.50 and a subsequent version that I don't remember very well of beat Chrome in the speed tests at the time it was launched.

Kindly read again my post as I don't care about speed tests.If I had cared about speed test or reviews, then I would have never used opera as my main browser.

Hey I was just saying that the truck comparison makes no sense in this context...
Plug-ins and add-ons aren't plain features in the UI, they indeed may affect the engine. Now, something like M2 and panels never affected Opera's rendering engine performance.

j4jasbir

j4jasbir

Originally posted by rilef:

On these Peacekeeper tests, a loaded Opera 12 clearly outperforms a loaded SeaMonkey and a loaded Firefox.

Kindly read my post again.I don't care about these tests

Originally posted by rilef:

You have to load these empty trucks with extensions/add-ons, to achieve even a portion of the same capabilities natively available with Opera 12

You are right Opera 12 was unique and great but there is no more opera 12, accept it now or after few months/years.I stopped using it when websites started showing me -You are using an outdated browser and also because of yahoo mail nag screen.I came across one site which won't even let me in.I could not ignore these things anymore.(I used to ignore these happily earlier when Opera12 was alive)

Originally posted by rilef:

Even Opera 18 without extensions has more capability, or soon will have, than Firefox or SeaMonkey without extensions.

lol .I would never say that about opera 18 but hope in future releases opera webkit add features rather than asking users to use extensions.(they already asked to use extensions for ~~bookmarks~~,notes).

blackbird71

blackbird71

Originally posted by rilef:

... Even Opera 18 without extensions has more capability, or soon will have, than Firefox or SeaMonkey without extensions. ...

Uhmm... since the validity of that statement largely depends on many unknowns lying within the phrase, "or soon will have" (something undiscernable outside of Opera's design group and subsequent testing pace and results) and is entirely dependent on the meaning of "capability", one could just as legitimately state: "Even Firefox or SeaMonkey without extensions have more capability, or soon will have, than Opera 18."

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by rilef:

Nonetheless, in my view, Opera 18 without extensions already has more capability than Firefox or SeaMonkey without extensions.

I'm not sure "how" Opera 18 has more capability HOWEVER I will say that I like it better. Why? I like the way it renders pages on my Windows 8.1 machine. Right now FF has a bug that results in a muddying up of fonts when I use Firefox. So... I can't use FF until it addresses this known issue. SeaMonkey, to my way of thinking, is an old, clunky suite reminiscent of Netscape circa 1998. I don't want to go back fifteen years in my browser's appearance. I like the cleaner look of Opera 18 and I like its speed. These are reasons I have made it my default.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by rilef:

But, that does not automatically and immediately make Firefox, SeaMonkey, and other competing browsers, superior or more virtuous or a better choice than Opera 12. The Peacekeeper testing, in part, points that out.

Actually... when Opera 12 fails to prove compatible with more and more websites, then that "does" make the other browsers superior for what really is a browser's function but to open websites? Presto dies a little more each day and it's time to move on.

jito463

jito463

While I'm still sticking with Opera 12.16 at this time, I've begun testing a transition to Sleipnir, and I'm liking what I see so far in 4.3.2 (5.0.0 is now available, but I haven't installed it yet).

Similarities to Opera 12.x and earlier:
- Rocker gestures (somewhat buggy in 4.3.2 - as sometimes it will simply bump to the top of the tab, instead of going back - but will test 5.0.0 soon)
- Right-click + scroll-wheel tab navigation (only missing feature is ability to choose which tab; right now it simply moves to the next one)
- Bookmarks (did you ever believe we'd reach a point where this was considered a *feature* to promote?)
- Multiple user-agent options for masking (even more options than Opera)
- UI customization (not as well done, but it is there)
- History of closed tabs that can be reopened

Nifty new features:
- Hotkeys in search bar to quickly choose search engine
- Ability to protect individual & groups of tabs (warning upon closing)
- Ability to set - from bookmarks manager - individual settings for pages (disable javascript/activex/plugins/sound/video/etc, set renderer, auto-protect tab, etc)
- Just discovered I can right-click and drag a page to switch to the next tab (looks like it was built with touchscreens in mind, but works great with mouse, too)

Negative or irritating features:
- No ability to sort bookmarks (they're quite cluttered at the moment)
- No separate bookmark bar (just quick-access like new Chropera is implementing, likely because they also use Blink engine)
- Multiple processes running in Task Manager (again, likely because of Blink engine), right now I have 23 tabs open, but 28 processes, making me wonder if they're not shutting down upon closing a tab, will check again in 5.0.0
- Lack of proper settings (much like new Chropera, but unlike Chropera actually has some decent features in it)
- No "Block Content" like in Opera 12.x and before

This last two negatives are a big disappointment to me, and part of the reason I haven't fully switched over yet; but with as many similar features as Opera 12.x, and even some new features, I may end up switching in spite of that.

*EDIT*
Found another new feature, and remembered another missing feature.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by rilef:

A final note: I altogether avoid use of personnas/light themes in both Firefox and Chrome, finding their use absolutely and consistently horrific. In contrast, there are few remaining and minimal problems with Opera 18's approach.

I couldn't agree more.

Deleted User

Deleted User

To put it bluntly, there's no other tool like Opera. There's no alternative to it as an internet suite. In the graphical section, I have found nothing even remotely as convenient and configurable. Only extremely configurable programs can be made to emulate some other program.

This year I set up Elinks text browser. To me it makes sense as a replacement for Opera browser component, because I use Opera primarily to read and type, not watch images or videos. So, this post is for those who don't care so much about images and videos, but care a lot about text and urls.

Here are snippets from my elinks.conf file with comments. I mostly show the changes that emulate Opera plus some inevitable differences from Opera.

When you open up Elinks the first time, you can open up configuration options by pressing o and keyboard settings by pressing k. After some time and effort in those two dialogs, elinks.conf file becomes understandable and then it's possible to edit the file directly.

A. Startup

## ELinks 0.12pre5 configuration file

## ui 
#  User interface options.

  ## ui.startup_goto_dialog [0|1]
  #  Pop up goto dialog in newly created tabs when there's no homepage set. This
  #  means also showing goto dialog on startup.
  set ui.startup_goto_dialog = 0

At first startup, Elinks opens up the address field, called "go-to dialog". It's similar to Opera's F2 address field. Since I don't want this dialog at every startup and at every new tab (yep, Elinks does tabs), I have this setting at 0. Otherwise you'd have to press Esc to get rid of it at every startup and every new tab.

With go-to dialog at 0 and no homepage set, I have a blank page at Elinks startup. From here, I can:

- type g to open the go-to dialog (there's no other address field but the go-to dialog; the blank page is really completely blank)
- h to browse history of visited pages
- s for bookmarks.

Those g, h, and s are default shortcuts which can also be changed.

Concerning the address field (go-to dialog), these keyboard bindings are handy:

bind "edit" "Shift-Insert" = "paste-clipboard"
bind "edit" "Tab" = "auto-complete"

Paste-clipboard, obviously, pastes to the address field from clipboard. Rather than Ctrl+v it's better to have it Shift+Ins because this is the regular shortcut in consoles.

Tab completes some typed text on the address field from history and bookmarks.

B. Display

To make the webpage display sanely as per console logic and to remove unnecessary formatting, use these settings:

## document 
#  Document options.

  ## document.colors 
  #  Default document color settings.

    ## document.colors.background <color|#rrggbb>
    #  Default background color.
    set document.colors.background = "black"

    ## document.colors.use_document_colors <num>
    #  Use colors specified in document:
    #  0 is use always the default settings
    #  1 is use document colors if available, except background
    #  2 is use document colors, including background. This can
    #    mostly look very impressive, but some sites will appear
    #    really ugly. Note, that obviously if the background is
    #    not black, it will break the behaviour of transparency.
    set document.colors.use_document_colors = 0

  ## document.css 
  #  Options concerning how to use CSS for styling documents.

    ## document.css.enable [0|1]
    #  Enable adding of CSS style info to documents.
    set document.css.enable = 0

bind "main" "B" = "toggle-display-tables"

The toggle to render/ignore tables is the uppercase B. In the keybindings, lowercase and uppercase keys are different bindings. Again, change it to what you like. When you are in the keyboard bindings dialog in elinks, and you try to set a binding that already exists, you get a warning along with the opportunity to overwrite.

C. Images

## document.browse 
  #  Document browsing options (mainly interactivity).

    ## document.browse.images 
    #  Options for handling of images.

      ## document.browse.images.show_as_links [0|1]
      #  Display links to images without an alt attribute. If this option is
      #  off, these images are completely invisible.
      set document.browse.images.show_as_links = 1

This makes images show up as [img] if they have no alt text. The [img] is a link that identifies the url when you select it. I have the setting this way just in case the text implies the image may be useful after all, so I can download it when really needed to see.

D. Moving around in a document

By default, Space moves the page down by a screen. PgUp goes up a screen in the document. To move up and down a row or line, use the default bindings Ins and Del. I saw no reason to change these. If the mouse is enabled, the scroll wheel can also scroll the document by rows, but sorry, no smooth scrolling.

By default, arrow keys have some conflicting functions that must be changed to emulate Opera's spatial navigation jumping from link to link:

bind "main" "Down" = "move-link-down"
bind "main" "Right" = "move-link-right-line"
bind "main" "Up" = "move-link-up"
bind "main" "Left" = "move-link-left-line"

bind "main" "j" = "history-move-forward"
bind "main" "u" = "history-move-back"

E. Links

## document.browse.links 
    #  Options for handling of links to other documents.

      ## document.browse.links.numbering [0|1]
      #  Display numbers next to the links.
      set document.browse.links.numbering = 0

bind "main" "/" = "toggle-numbered-links"
bind "main" "l" = "link-menu"
bind "main" "L" = "goto-url-current-link"

/ will give numbers to all links, so you can type the number to go to the link.

When a link is selected, l key will open up a menu that contains options like Open, Open in new tab, new window, download, and more.

Uppercase L will extract the url in the link to the address field (goto-dialog) for full examination and editing. Of course, Elinks has a sensible status bar so that the url of any selected link can be examined immediately, but the screen width is not always enough.

More bindings:

bind "main" "Ctrl-D" = "add-bookmark"
bind "main" "a" = "add-bookmark-link"
bind "main" "Ctrl-S" = "save-url-as"

F. Tabs

By default, lowercase t key opens up a new tab, but in a non-obvious way: It duplicates the current page. This is okay so you don't have to have another keybinding for Duplicate page. You can see that a new tab has been opened because a tab bar appears above the status bar.

In the new tab situation, refer to instructions given under A. Startup. Just two Operatic keybindings from v.12:

bind "main" "Ctrl-W" = "tab-close"
bind "main" "Shift-Ctrl-Alt-W" = "tab-close-all-but-current"

Some keybindings simply won't work, I don't know why. Ctrl+Tab to cycle tabs doesn't work. The default keybindings to move between tabs are < and >.

G. Searching in the document

To search within a document , I have these bindings:

bind "main" "." = "search-typeahead-text"
bind "main" "Ctrl-F" = "search"
bind "main" "F3" = "find-next"
bind "main" "Shift-F3" = "find-next-back"

With bindings like this, a simple . key will allow search-as-you-type like in Opera. Ctrl+F will open up a search dialog as in most graphical editors. The next item will be highlighted by F3 and the previous by Shift+F3.

Links don't need specific search. Above there was a keybinding "/" to identify all links by number, so you can go to any of them by typing the number. Moving between links is as simple as pressing the arrow keys.

H. Search engines

There's something called "dumb rewrite prefixes" and "smart rewrite prefixes" in Elinks. You are welcome to figure out the smart ones if you are smart. Here's how to use the dumb ones to add search engines:

## protocol 
#  Protocol specific options.

  ## protocol.rewrite 

    ## protocol.rewrite.default_template <str>
    #  Default URI template used when the string entered in the goto dialog does
    #  not appear to be a URI or a filename (i.e. contains no '.', ':' or '/'
    #  characters), and does not match any defined prefixes. Set the value to ""
    #  to disable use of the default template rewrite rule.
    #  
    #  %c in the template means the current URL,
    #  %s in the template means the whole string from the goto
    #     dialog,
    #  %0,%1,...,%9 mean the 1st,2nd,...,10th space-delimited part
    #     of %s,
    #  %% in the template means '%'.
    set protocol.rewrite.default_template = "https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ouk&q=%s"

    ## protocol.rewrite.dumb 
    #  Dumb prefixes, see enable-dumb description for details.

      ## protocol.rewrite.dumb.g <str>
      #  Replacement URI for this dumbprefix:
      #  %c in the string means the current URL
      #  %% in the string means '%'
      set protocol.rewrite.dumb.g = "!g"

      ## protocol.rewrite.dumb.d <str>
      set protocol.rewrite.dumb.d = "http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=%s&search=search"

      ## protocol.rewrite.dumb.imdb <str>
      set protocol.rewrite.dumb.imdb = "http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=%s"

Hopefully you see the pattern.

I have Duckduckgo set to conduct a search when I type something on the address field (go-to dialog) that isn't an address.

When the typed string on the address field begins with "g " (g plus space), then it will go to Google results via Duckduckgo.

When the typed string on the address field begins with "d ", it will conduct the Dictionary.com search, "imdb " will search Imdb.com, for just a few examples. You can add and change as you like.

Deleted User

Deleted User

You're a smart guy, ersi, and far, far beyond me. Looking over your post, I can see why you are so disillusioned and frustrated. Not sure what to say other than it is what it is. I guess at this point the only real alternative for you is Firefox. My guess is that Opera's new browser will never be at a point for flexibility that the Presto version was at but I'm hopeful it will improve far beyond what it currently is. That's my hope but only time will tell the real story. I wish they would give us a bit of a road map.

korame16

korame16

Oper has become a bad browser, probably worst than IE.
Netscape went bankrupt because they made an awful bookmark system compared to IE.
Now Opera will cease to exist.
I encourage everyone to leave for Chrome. It's a much better browser, it doesn't have a corporate-like behavior like Opera where they force people to accept the fact that they stopped supporting an easy bookmark-system.
Instead of having a single one-click-button to add and manage bookmarks, you will need now to go and acquire a masters degree in CS, which I happen to have, then spend some hours figuring out how the bad-engineered Opera functioned.

That is called bad-programming and UI-design of lowest possible level, which will lead to the ultimate death of Opera.

Long live Chrome
P.S.: Mr. leushino, you are a pain in the a... - Stop complaining about complaint of the worst programming job ever done and try to do something to improve. Put your ego aside for a while, it won't do you harm, and mess with the lousy Opera programmers instead with us.

Deleted User

Deleted User

According to Peacekeeper, Opera 18 is doing very well.
Netscape went bankrupt from mismanagement and from MS giving away their browser. It had nothing to do with the bookmark system.
Opera will not cease to exist. In time what will cease to exist is foolish comments such as your own.
I encourage everyone to ignore a :troll: who encourages others to leave. People can make up their own minds without you interfering.
No Masters degree in CS here, but I'm able to place all of my bookmarks in folders on the QAB. It functions very well.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Check out the developer v.20. Some of the new features:

Extensions chrome.downloads API (DNA-13993)
Drag tabs onto the bookmarks bar (DNA-12485)
Confirm exit when using Command–Q (DNA-12338) (Mac only)
Improved stash screenshots (DNA-13588). No more blurry scaled snapshots, hopefully (NB: we haven’t tested every URL on the Web)
Improved drag and drop between Speed Dial and Bookmarks Bar (DNA-12723)
Performance improvements of theme loading (DNA-12816)
Settings | Advanced: Use smaller speed dial thumbnails (DNA-12781)
Settings | Power-user: Width and Height of speed dial thumbnails (DNA-12781)

http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2013/12/plenty-in-twenty/#content

traceelement

traceelement

thanks for the info will be checking out sea monkey can't stand the new opera don't listen to leushiTo

Deleted User

Deleted User

What can't you "stand" about the "new Opera?" Have you checked out SeaMonkey's performance? I have and it is not something to write home about. I used Chrome 31, Opera 18, Firefox 25, IE 11 (both desktop and modern) and SeaMonkey. SeaMonkey came in dead last on the Peacekeeper site. About all it has going for it is an integrated email client but even that does not function the way Opera's did. Bear in mind that I used Netscape from v.3.0 on up to its demise. SM is a throw-off from that suite and straight out of the 90's. It's clunky as you will soon discover with the "switches" that allow you to remove from view the various tool bars. But hey, if it floats your boat you're welcome to it. :whistle:

traceelement

traceelement

Originally posted by leushino:

According to Peacekeeper, Opera 18 is doing very well.
Netscape went bankrupt from mismanagement and from MS giving away their browser. It had nothing to do with the bookmark system.
Opera will not cease to exist. In time what will cease to exist is foolish comments such as your own.
I encourage everyone to ignore a :troll: who encourages others to leave. People can make up their own minds without you interfering.
No Masters degree in CS here, but I'm able to place all of my bookmarks in folders on the QAB. It functions very well.

dude the new opera sucks were you even using it before v.15?? personally I'm gonna miss opera it was my baby and I'm glad to have heard about sea monkey from someone who understands what I'm going through besides you're the troll here, take a little of your own advice and let people decide without you interfering! leushito

traceelement

traceelement

Actually I think Maxathon is my new browser of choice. Been able to get it just about the way I had my opera set up and there are a couple of interesting features I may try out (cloud push for example). Well so long guys it was nice while it lasted gonna miss ya. R.I.P. Opera 1994-2013

kesetrum

kesetrum

I am webmaster and editing many CSS/HTML code etc.

The main reason why I still stick in Opera 12x are:
- Load back/accident post. AFAIK, only Presto have this ability. even after successfully post, I am still can do revert previous one only click BACK
- The Opera Dragonfly, is different than WebKit or Gecko/Firebug Inspect element.Presto has nice "real time" live mouse hover and show the styles.
- I am still have thousands of Notes instead of important Speed Dial.

But, still I am facing the big 5 fact. That my visitor still use Chrome, WebKit, IE and Presto Engine,including Opera Mini.
So, for testing site, I use current Opera 18x and Firefox also IE

Well, I remember many years ago. I am using Intel Pentium 300MHz with 256MB of RAM. At that time, IE was buggy and consume high cpu resources. While Firefuk had many memory leakage problem. Only Opera is the winner, can open many many tabs at once with LOWEST memory & CPU consumption. Dang..

harryward

harryward

Originally posted by Salahuddin1:

I've spent the last several weeks looking for some potential alternatives to Opera 12. Like many of the opinions expressed here, I too have been quite disappointed with the new Opera and have lost trust with the developers and the company.

Hope this helps. Please add any other suggestions to this post for potential alternatives.

I am so glad that you started this thread. Being frustrated with the new Opera is one thing, but to constructively discuss alternatives that might replace Opera 11/12 is great. And for those of us who don't have the skill or time to review all the alternatives and add-ins (thanks so much laurenbacall for your list), this thread is a godsend.

I know your thread title includes 'and use Opera Mail'. I don't, so that feature was not important to me. My alternative browser was Pale Moon (http://www.palemoon.org/). It is also Firefox based, but deletes the E-mail feature and other features that are not commonly used (their technical details tell you which). I have been able to set it up so it closely emulates what I use in my Opera 12. Not mentioned by laurenbacall or others in the '2 Pane Booksmarks' extension for all Firebox based browsers, which shows the bookmark sidebar with the 2 pane style of Opera. I find it a great extension.

I am sticking with Opera 12.x as my primary browser as long as I can, but when I currently get stuck with webpages that don't load, or when the march of technology completely passes Opera Presto based browsers obsolete, I will have Pale Moon.

Harry

tradeofjane

tradeofjane

Originally posted by leushino:

What can't you "stand" about the "new Opera?" Have you checked out SeaMonkey's performance? I have and it is not something to write home about. I used Chrome 31, Opera 18, Firefox 25, IE 11 (both desktop and modern) and SeaMonkey. SeaMonkey came in dead last on the Peacekeeper site. About all it has going for it is an integrated email client but even that does not function the way Opera's did. Bear in mind that I used Netscape from v.3.0 on up to its demise. SM is a throw-off from that suite and straight out of the 90's. It's clunky as you will soon discover with the "switches" that allow you to remove from view the various tool bars. But hey, if it floats your boat you're welcome to it. :whistle:

Chrome might be fast but so is a mentally challenged kid with a hyperactivity disorder, at least until he hits the wall. It crashes more times than a NASCAR rookie.