Here are some suggestions for those looking for alternatives to Opera 12 (and use Opera Mail)

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by ocky:

SeaMonkey - same rendering engine as FF... only the GUI is a bit different.
Very nice. Have been using it on Linux for a while.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/450a16288840872

Look at the real estate you've lost at the top of your screen. To my tired eyes, this looks like my 1997 Netscape browser... only 16 years out of date now.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by rilef:

Thus, there appears little reason to switch from Opera mail to SeaMonkey or Thunderbird mail (i.e. from one deprecated mail client to another deprecated mail client). Or vice versa. That is, if you use a mail client, and you like this mail client, you should keep this mail client.

To my way of thinking there is really only one viable email client (if you must have one) and that is the Bat. T-bird development has pretty much dried up since Mozilla dropped it. Other than a community offering security patches and bug fixes, it is what it is (and it's nothing to write home about).

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Originally posted by leushino:

Originally posted by rilef:

Thus, there appears little reason to switch from Opera mail to SeaMonkey or Thunderbird mail (i.e. from one deprecated mail client to another deprecated mail client). Or vice versa. That is, if you use a mail client, and you like this mail client, you should keep this mail client.

To my way of thinking there is really only one viable email client (if you must have one) and that is the Bat. T-bird development has pretty much dried up since Mozilla dropped it. Other than a community offering security patches and bug fixes, it is what it is (and it's nothing to write home about).

Is there really any significant reason for any continued development of any eMail browser, in general, these days? From my observations, most of them have rather fully plugged any browser exploitation holes over the last number of years, and their feature-sets have all long since peaked out. Which means, other than possibly finding one that's integrated into a web-browser (for those to whom that matters), there shouldn't be much user concern about whether or not there's active development of a particular eMail browser. And given that so many users simply rely on web-based eMail access, there's not much economic sense for purveyors of eMail programs to invest much into adding bells and whistles... so the eMail browsers out there now are likely not to change much in years to come.

Myself, I'm a firm believer in downloading and keeping permanent copies of all my eMails on-site... so I've primarily used a stand-alone eMail program (currently PocoMail, now out-of-production... before that, Outlook Express... and before that, Outlook) for years, using webmail only for a quick check of messages if I'm on the go somewhere. The main features of an eMail program, to me, reside in the user comfort-option category (foldering, sorting, searching, archiving/backup, security against exploitation, etc, etc). And those features for most eMail browsers currently available have remained largely static for quite a long time. Hence, the folks running Opera, Outlook Express, PocoMail, Thunderbird, or a myriad of other eMail browsers will probably be able to use them for years to come, as long as the OS will still support them (or vice versa). Bottom line: use whatever you like for your needs, whether or not it's still actively being developed... it isn't going to suddenly go away after you start using it.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Blackbird, that makes perfect sense. So why the angst among those who mourn the passing of Opera's suite? Just use Opera 12 for its email function alone OR use the standalone email client.

As for me... I got rid of my separate email clients (Outlook and Thunderbird) more than a year ago and haven't looked back. I've no need for email clients these days. The few "important" emails I do receive (via webmail accounts), I download and save on an external hard drive... and they are few and far between. Most of my communication these days is via texting and social networks. Email for me (as well as my family and friends) is pretty much passe.

[kesetrum]

kesetrum last edited by

Lets back to more constructive topic and give a spirit to Opera Dev.
This one of many thread discussion will let user speak their specific old behavior from 12 instead of giving bad score in to 17.
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1784592

Still whole browser above cannot beat Opera 12 which handle "live mouse hover events" when inspect some element.
Read this http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14960362
and hopefully can solve on next Opera 18 which is state here http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14960572

For me as a webmaster, DragonFly from Opera 12 nicely work to inspect element and manipulate it Live!!
This is what the reason I am stick in Opera, event on some cases Opera 12 DragonFly crash during inspect.

Regarding, Tweaking or any shortcut function. I prefer the old Opera which is default activated. All browser had their own tweaking function. Most are same. I can't see big different here comparing other browser mention above.

I remember 6-8 years ago, afaik Opera being MOST innovative idea browser such first introducing TAB, Wand/Sync Link, Site Specific Setting, built-in Note, side menu, Private Tab, torrents (was) etc.. And built-in Download manager Opera is a mpost reliable I've ever seen for any network connection.

Well,
please continue constructive discussion.
And I see the SLEIPNIR browser using and try to using old Opera behaviour which is dismissed from current Opera 17.
Lets try SLEIPNIR...

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

Originally posted by leushino:

Originally posted by ocky:

SeaMonkey - same rendering engine as FF... only the GUI is a bit different.
Very nice. Have been using it on Linux for a while.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/450a16288840872[/quote]

Look at the real estate you've lost at the top of your screen. To my tired eyes, this looks like my 1997 Netscape browser... only 16 years out of date now.

Nah, no real estate lost. Bars can be collapsed if so desired. http://www.imagebam.com/image/a5c685289411489

(Of course also comes with an html composer).

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I think it's the GUI integration that makes Opera's approach interesting.

Consistent tabbed interface, my favourite ever since Pegasus Mail. Eudora is even more perfect interface-wise. And old Opera. This interface makes best sense, but the dark side is forcing it into the oblivion

[tranceplante]

tranceplante last edited by

Originally posted by funksoulbro:

Originally posted by Salahuddin1:

You know leushino, if you're tired of reading negative things about the new Opera browser, maybe you should stop reading these forums. Not quite sure what possesses you to respond to everyone who makes an anti Opera sentiment on these forums. Not even sure how one man can commit so much time and energy to such a cause.

Well said. The guy is like some over-defensive fanboy getting angry when people criticise his beloved company. I'm looking around for an alternative to Opera as, like many long-time Opera users, I think the new version is terrible, so I found the OP's post useful.

Ah! That makes more sens now

[j4jasbir]

j4jasbir last edited by

Originally posted by Salahuddin1:

Originally posted by leushino:

Did you say "quicker than Opera in loading pages"??? Not according to Peacekeeper. I challenge you to go over to http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com and test it for yourself. SM is one of the slowest browsers according to their bench tests. It's clunky all right and that is why it has such a small acceptance among users. It is definitely not a viable alternative to Opera unless you want a browser that looks like the old Netscape browser from 1998.

Peacekeeper is an overall benchmark of many different tests and only one of many benchmarking tools. It certainly is not a measure of which browser loads web pages faster.

Empty trucks(new opera) run faster than loaded trucks, so shall we start running empty trucks. Or do you use your browser for F1 racing? Why so much fuss about fastness ( by milliseconds).
When features are added back to new opera maybe it will become slow like chrome(and a huge memory usage pig).

Thanks for mentioning the FF addons. Few more FF addons -
Fast Dial - closest alternative of opera speed dial
Secure login - wand replacement
Extended statusbar
Video Downloadhelper
Quick translator
Download stausbar
Flagfox
Image Zoom
Handy dictionary

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

Originally posted by j4jasbir:

Empty trucks(new opera) run faster than loaded trucks, so shall we start running empty trucks.

I don't think that relation between the features *in the UI* and in the *engine* used to render the pages that people come up with is correct...

Actually there's a fact to back my suspicion. If you aren't a very new Opera user you should know that Opera 10.50 and a subsequent version that I don't remember very well of beat Chrome in the speed tests at the time it was launched.

I'll keep my previous suggestion (just update it to 18). :whistle:

[j4jasbir]

j4jasbir last edited by

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

Originally posted by j4jasbir:

Empty trucks(new opera) run faster than loaded trucks, so shall we start running empty trucks.

I don't think that relation between the features *in the UI* and in the *engine* used to render the pages that people come up with is correct...

Try firefox/opera with and without plugins,addons . You will see the difference.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

If you aren't a very new Opera user you should know that Opera 10.50 and a subsequent version that I don't remember very well of beat Chrome in the speed tests at the time it was launched.

Kindly read again my post as I don't care about speed tests.If I had cared about speed test or reviews, then I would have never used opera as my main browser.

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

Originally posted by j4jasbir:

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

Originally posted by j4jasbir:

Empty trucks(new opera) run faster than loaded trucks, so shall we start running empty trucks.

I don't think that relation between the features *in the UI* and in the *engine* used to render the pages that people come up with is correct...

Try firefox/opera with and without plugins,addons . You will see the difference.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

If you aren't a very new Opera user you should know that Opera 10.50 and a subsequent version that I don't remember very well of beat Chrome in the speed tests at the time it was launched.

Kindly read again my post as I don't care about speed tests.If I had cared about speed test or reviews, then I would have never used opera as my main browser.

Hey I was just saying that the truck comparison makes no sense in this context...
Plug-ins and add-ons aren't plain features in the UI, they indeed may affect the engine. Now, something like M2 and panels never affected Opera's rendering engine performance.

[j4jasbir]

j4jasbir last edited by

Originally posted by rilef:

On these Peacekeeper tests, a loaded Opera 12 clearly outperforms a loaded SeaMonkey and a loaded Firefox.

Kindly read my post again.I don't care about these tests

Originally posted by rilef:

You have to load these empty trucks with extensions/add-ons, to achieve even a portion of the same capabilities natively available with Opera 12

You are right Opera 12 was unique and great but there is no more opera 12, accept it now or after few months/years.I stopped using it when websites started showing me -You are using an outdated browser and also because of yahoo mail nag screen.I came across one site which won't even let me in.I could not ignore these things anymore.(I used to ignore these happily earlier when Opera12 was alive)

Originally posted by rilef:

Even Opera 18 without extensions has more capability, or soon will have, than Firefox or SeaMonkey without extensions.

lol .I would never say that about opera 18 but hope in future releases opera webkit add features rather than asking users to use extensions.(they already asked to use extensions for bookmarks,notes).

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Originally posted by rilef:

... Even Opera 18 without extensions has more capability, or soon will have, than Firefox or SeaMonkey without extensions. ...

Uhmm... since the validity of that statement largely depends on many unknowns lying within the phrase, "or soon will have" (something undiscernable outside of Opera's design group and subsequent testing pace and results) and is entirely dependent on the meaning of "capability", one could just as legitimately state: "Even Firefox or SeaMonkey without extensions have more capability, or soon will have, than Opera 18."

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by rilef:

Nonetheless, in my view, Opera 18 without extensions already has more capability than Firefox or SeaMonkey without extensions.

I'm not sure "how" Opera 18 has more capability HOWEVER I will say that I like it better. Why? I like the way it renders pages on my Windows 8.1 machine. Right now FF has a bug that results in a muddying up of fonts when I use Firefox. So... I can't use FF until it addresses this known issue. SeaMonkey, to my way of thinking, is an old, clunky suite reminiscent of Netscape circa 1998. I don't want to go back fifteen years in my browser's appearance. I like the cleaner look of Opera 18 and I like its speed. These are reasons I have made it my default.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by rilef:

But, that does not automatically and immediately make Firefox, SeaMonkey, and other competing browsers, superior or more virtuous or a better choice than Opera 12. The Peacekeeper testing, in part, points that out.

Actually... when Opera 12 fails to prove compatible with more and more websites, then that "does" make the other browsers superior for what really is a browser's function but to open websites? Presto dies a little more each day and it's time to move on.

[jito463]

jito463 last edited by

While I'm still sticking with Opera 12.16 at this time, I've begun testing a transition to Sleipnir, and I'm liking what I see so far in 4.3.2 (5.0.0 is now available, but I haven't installed it yet).

Similarities to Opera 12.x and earlier:
- Rocker gestures (somewhat buggy in 4.3.2 - as sometimes it will simply bump to the top of the tab, instead of going back - but will test 5.0.0 soon)
- Right-click + scroll-wheel tab navigation (only missing feature is ability to choose which tab; right now it simply moves to the next one)
- Bookmarks (did you ever believe we'd reach a point where this was considered a *feature* to promote?)
- Multiple user-agent options for masking (even more options than Opera)
- UI customization (not as well done, but it is there)
- History of closed tabs that can be reopened

Nifty new features:
- Hotkeys in search bar to quickly choose search engine
- Ability to protect individual & groups of tabs (warning upon closing)
- Ability to set - from bookmarks manager - individual settings for pages (disable javascript/activex/plugins/sound/video/etc, set renderer, auto-protect tab, etc)
- Just discovered I can right-click and drag a page to switch to the next tab (looks like it was built with touchscreens in mind, but works great with mouse, too)

Negative or irritating features:
- No ability to sort bookmarks (they're quite cluttered at the moment)
- No separate bookmark bar (just quick-access like new Chropera is implementing, likely because they also use Blink engine)
- Multiple processes running in Task Manager (again, likely because of Blink engine), right now I have 23 tabs open, but 28 processes, making me wonder if they're not shutting down upon closing a tab, will check again in 5.0.0
- Lack of proper settings (much like new Chropera, but unlike Chropera actually has some decent features in it)
- No "Block Content" like in Opera 12.x and before

This last two negatives are a big disappointment to me, and part of the reason I haven't fully switched over yet; but with as many similar features as Opera 12.x, and even some new features, I may end up switching in spite of that.

*EDIT*
Found another new feature, and remembered another missing feature.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by rilef:

A final note: I altogether avoid use of personnas/light themes in both Firefox and Chrome, finding their use absolutely and consistently horrific. In contrast, there are few remaining and minimal problems with Opera 18's approach.

I couldn't agree more.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

To put it bluntly, there's no other tool like Opera. There's no alternative to it as an internet suite. In the graphical section, I have found nothing even remotely as convenient and configurable. Only extremely configurable programs can be made to emulate some other program.

This year I set up Elinks text browser. To me it makes sense as a replacement for Opera browser component, because I use Opera primarily to read and type, not watch images or videos. So, this post is for those who don't care so much about images and videos, but care a lot about text and urls.

Here are snippets from my elinks.conf file with comments. I mostly show the changes that emulate Opera plus some inevitable differences from Opera.

When you open up Elinks the first time, you can open up configuration options by pressing o and keyboard settings by pressing k. After some time and effort in those two dialogs, elinks.conf file becomes understandable and then it's possible to edit the file directly.

A. Startup

## ELinks 0.12pre5 configuration file

## ui 
#  User interface options.

  ## ui.startup_goto_dialog [0|1]
  #  Pop up goto dialog in newly created tabs when there's no homepage set. This
  #  means also showing goto dialog on startup.
  set ui.startup_goto_dialog = 0

At first startup, Elinks opens up the address field, called "go-to dialog". It's similar to Opera's F2 address field. Since I don't want this dialog at every startup and at every new tab (yep, Elinks does tabs), I have this setting at 0. Otherwise you'd have to press Esc to get rid of it at every startup and every new tab.

With go-to dialog at 0 and no homepage set, I have a blank page at Elinks startup. From here, I can:

- type g to open the go-to dialog (there's no other address field but the go-to dialog; the blank page is really completely blank)
- h to browse history of visited pages
- s for bookmarks.

Those g, h, and s are default shortcuts which can also be changed.

Concerning the address field (go-to dialog), these keyboard bindings are handy:

bind "edit" "Shift-Insert" = "paste-clipboard"
bind "edit" "Tab" = "auto-complete"

Paste-clipboard, obviously, pastes to the address field from clipboard. Rather than Ctrl+v it's better to have it Shift+Ins because this is the regular shortcut in consoles.

Tab completes some typed text on the address field from history and bookmarks.

B. Display

To make the webpage display sanely as per console logic and to remove unnecessary formatting, use these settings:

## document 
#  Document options.

  ## document.colors 
  #  Default document color settings.

    ## document.colors.background <color|#rrggbb>
    #  Default background color.
    set document.colors.background = "black"

    ## document.colors.use_document_colors <num>
    #  Use colors specified in document:
    #  0 is use always the default settings
    #  1 is use document colors if available, except background
    #  2 is use document colors, including background. This can
    #    mostly look very impressive, but some sites will appear
    #    really ugly. Note, that obviously if the background is
    #    not black, it will break the behaviour of transparency.
    set document.colors.use_document_colors = 0

  ## document.css 
  #  Options concerning how to use CSS for styling documents.

    ## document.css.enable [0|1]
    #  Enable adding of CSS style info to documents.
    set document.css.enable = 0

bind "main" "B" = "toggle-display-tables"

The toggle to render/ignore tables is the uppercase B. In the keybindings, lowercase and uppercase keys are different bindings. Again, change it to what you like. When you are in the keyboard bindings dialog in elinks, and you try to set a binding that already exists, you get a warning along with the opportunity to overwrite.

C. Images

## document.browse 
  #  Document browsing options (mainly interactivity).

    ## document.browse.images 
    #  Options for handling of images.

      ## document.browse.images.show_as_links [0|1]
      #  Display links to images without an alt attribute. If this option is
      #  off, these images are completely invisible.
      set document.browse.images.show_as_links = 1

This makes images show up as [img] if they have no alt text. The [img] is a link that identifies the url when you select it. I have the setting this way just in case the text implies the image may be useful after all, so I can download it when really needed to see.

D. Moving around in a document

By default, Space moves the page down by a screen. PgUp goes up a screen in the document. To move up and down a row or line, use the default bindings Ins and Del. I saw no reason to change these. If the mouse is enabled, the scroll wheel can also scroll the document by rows, but sorry, no smooth scrolling.

By default, arrow keys have some conflicting functions that must be changed to emulate Opera's spatial navigation jumping from link to link:

bind "main" "Down" = "move-link-down"
bind "main" "Right" = "move-link-right-line"
bind "main" "Up" = "move-link-up"
bind "main" "Left" = "move-link-left-line"

bind "main" "j" = "history-move-forward"
bind "main" "u" = "history-move-back"

E. Links

## document.browse.links 
    #  Options for handling of links to other documents.

      ## document.browse.links.numbering [0|1]
      #  Display numbers next to the links.
      set document.browse.links.numbering = 0

bind "main" "/" = "toggle-numbered-links"
bind "main" "l" = "link-menu"
bind "main" "L" = "goto-url-current-link"

/ will give numbers to all links, so you can type the number to go to the link.

When a link is selected, l key will open up a menu that contains options like Open, Open in new tab, new window, download, and more.

Uppercase L will extract the url in the link to the address field (goto-dialog) for full examination and editing. Of course, Elinks has a sensible status bar so that the url of any selected link can be examined immediately, but the screen width is not always enough.

More bindings:

bind "main" "Ctrl-D" = "add-bookmark"
bind "main" "a" = "add-bookmark-link"
bind "main" "Ctrl-S" = "save-url-as"

F. Tabs

By default, lowercase t key opens up a new tab, but in a non-obvious way: It duplicates the current page. This is okay so you don't have to have another keybinding for Duplicate page. You can see that a new tab has been opened because a tab bar appears above the status bar.

In the new tab situation, refer to instructions given under A. Startup. Just two Operatic keybindings from v.12:

bind "main" "Ctrl-W" = "tab-close"
bind "main" "Shift-Ctrl-Alt-W" = "tab-close-all-but-current"

Some keybindings simply won't work, I don't know why. Ctrl+Tab to cycle tabs doesn't work. The default keybindings to move between tabs are < and >.

G. Searching in the document

To search within a document , I have these bindings:

bind "main" "." = "search-typeahead-text"
bind "main" "Ctrl-F" = "search"
bind "main" "F3" = "find-next"
bind "main" "Shift-F3" = "find-next-back"

With bindings like this, a simple . key will allow search-as-you-type like in Opera. Ctrl+F will open up a search dialog as in most graphical editors. The next item will be highlighted by F3 and the previous by Shift+F3.

Links don't need specific search. Above there was a keybinding "/" to identify all links by number, so you can go to any of them by typing the number. Moving between links is as simple as pressing the arrow keys.

H. Search engines

There's something called "dumb rewrite prefixes" and "smart rewrite prefixes" in Elinks. You are welcome to figure out the smart ones if you are smart. Here's how to use the dumb ones to add search engines:

## protocol 
#  Protocol specific options.

  ## protocol.rewrite 

    ## protocol.rewrite.default_template <str>
    #  Default URI template used when the string entered in the goto dialog does
    #  not appear to be a URI or a filename (i.e. contains no '.', ':' or '/'
    #  characters), and does not match any defined prefixes. Set the value to ""
    #  to disable use of the default template rewrite rule.
    #  
    #  %c in the template means the current URL,
    #  %s in the template means the whole string from the goto
    #     dialog,
    #  %0,%1,...,%9 mean the 1st,2nd,...,10th space-delimited part
    #     of %s,
    #  %% in the template means '%'.
    set protocol.rewrite.default_template = "https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ouk&q=%s"

    ## protocol.rewrite.dumb 
    #  Dumb prefixes, see enable-dumb description for details.

      ## protocol.rewrite.dumb.g <str>
      #  Replacement URI for this dumbprefix:
      #  %c in the string means the current URL
      #  %% in the string means '%'
      set protocol.rewrite.dumb.g = "!g"

      ## protocol.rewrite.dumb.d <str>
      set protocol.rewrite.dumb.d = "http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=%s&search=search"

      ## protocol.rewrite.dumb.imdb <str>
      set protocol.rewrite.dumb.imdb = "http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=%s"

Hopefully you see the pattern.

I have Duckduckgo set to conduct a search when I type something on the address field (go-to dialog) that isn't an address.

When the typed string on the address field begins with "g " (g plus space), then it will go to Google results via Duckduckgo.

When the typed string on the address field begins with "d ", it will conduct the Dictionary.com search, "imdb " will search Imdb.com, for just a few examples. You can add and change as you like.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

You're a smart guy, ersi, and far, far beyond me. Looking over your post, I can see why you are so disillusioned and frustrated. Not sure what to say other than it is what it is. I guess at this point the only real alternative for you is Firefox. My guess is that Opera's new browser will never be at a point for flexibility that the Presto version was at but I'm hopeful it will improve far beyond what it currently is. That's my hope but only time will tell the real story. I wish they would give us a bit of a road map.