Where do Opera 12.16 users go now Opera is dead?
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staiger last edited by
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
Get over it, this is the same BS I hear about people switching from Win7 to 8/8.1 - Times changes & so do other things so deal with it. If you were a loyal Opera user you wouldnt complain but embrace this new change.
I'd like to respond to this by saying something very simple: change is NOT always for the better. I've driven technological change throughout my 30+ year career, and I can say one thing for sure: some change is GOOD and some change is BAD. Change and progress are two very different concepts. It's progress we want, not change per se.
Therefore it is completely reasonable to question ALL change and ask the very simple question: "Does this change make things better or worse?" Progress only works if people ask that question, then filter out the bad changes and nurture the good changes. Otherwise we just go around in circles and don't actually make progress.
If people see changes in Opera that don't constitute an improvement, then damn right they should say so.
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
Grow up, if you were a TRUE Opera fan you'd stick w/it & not bitch about things changing..... Were all so tired of people coming here & complaining about the new Opera.....
Hey, come on, let's remain civil! As I say, it's OK for users to evaluate changes and decide for themselves whether they constitute progress, just change for the sake of it, or even regression. Right now Opera 16 is far less functional than Opera 12, so the changes so far have resulted in an overall regression, not progress.
By commenting on these changes the Opera team get feedback on what changes are popular and feel like progress, and what feel like regression. A classical case is bookmarks - feedback from users made the Opera team reprioritise the work in this area, because the loss of bookmarks felt like a big regression to a lot of users.
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
EVENTUALLY Opera plans to implement all the old features into this new engine.....
Hang on! Opera have NOT said that. They've said the opposite - check the blogs. They've said that they want to ditch some of the more "confusing" features (without telling us what they are). The worrying thing for me is that some of those "confusing" features might be those that I value very highly.
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
So, either stick with Opera like the rest of us or move on... Were all so tired of people coming here & complaining about the new Opera.
I've stuck with Opera since the days when we had to pay for it! I doubt you're in a position to lecture me on staying power and loyalty.....
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stng last edited by
Staiger
Hang on! Opera have NOT said that. They've said the opposite - check the blogs. They've said that they want to ditch some of the more "confusing" features (without telling us what they are). The worrying thing for me is that some of those "confusing" features might be those that I value very highly.
Yeah. "Fit to window width", for an example. According to the Opera's Team, this feature frustrating beginners and not experienced users (when it's enabled accidentally it' can "break" a web-site). But, i value this one very high.
p.s. I have a 16:10 display but still find the FTW useful. -
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by STNG:
Staiger
Hang on! Opera have NOT said that. They've said the opposite - check the blogs. They've said that they want to ditch some of the more "confusing" features (without telling us what they are). The worrying thing for me is that some of those "confusing" features might be those that I value very highly.
Yeah. "Fit to window width", for an example. According to the Opera's Team, this feature frustrating beginners and not experienced users (when it's enabled accidentally it' can "break" a web-site). But, i value this one very high.
p.s. I have a 16:10 display but still find the FTW useful.And bookmarks were also a confusing complicated overly advanced feature that was used by nobody according to official statistics. Then they decided to reimplement bookmarks because the user base turned out to be "passionate", not because anybody actually needs the feature...
Anyway, the list of features deemed unnecessary by the current management can easily be derived when you compare the feature set of v.11-12 to the feature set of 15-16.
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serious last edited by
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
Get over it, this is the same BS I hear about people switching from Win7 to 8/8.1 - Times changes & so do other things so deal with it. If you were a loyal Opera user you wouldnt complain but embrace this new change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability ! I don't complain because stuff changes (hell, Win7 was awesome compared to XP and esp. Vista), but because people change stuff for the sake of change and not to improve stuff. For me Op15+ simply is a huge pile of junk usability-wise because I use a ton of features which it does not have any more - like bookmarks shortcuts, or the rss-button (not even the reader, just the button to get the feed-url without having to hunt through the whole site where it might be hidden), or tons of other stuff...
Originally posted by ersi:
And bookmarks were also a confusing complicated overly advanced feature that was used by nobody according to official statistics.
I wonder if this is because most "advanced" users answer "no" when asked if you can collect statistics or disable it in preferences
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by serious:
Originally posted by ersi:
And bookmarks were also a confusing complicated overly advanced feature that was used by nobody according to official statistics.
I wonder if this is because most "advanced" users answer "no" when asked if you can collect statistics or disable it in preferences
How could this be? The statistics is OFFICIAL. They did RESEARCH!
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serious last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
How could this be? The statistics is OFFICIAL. They did RESEARCH!
haha, love that sarcasm
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Deleted User last edited by
I keep on using 12.16 mostly because of the bookmarks, but this is known MAJOR issue.
The other major for me is themes.
Don't see any changes in these directions in O18 as well. -
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by serious:
Win7 was awesome compared to XP and esp. Vista
I don't know; it still comes with Vista's biggest (or at least most immediately obvious) annoyances: the start menu and Aero. Then again, the default XP theme was far more hideous than Aero, but Vista basically broke the classic theme. On XP I actually used Codename Opus. Did I mention I despise thumbnail-based window switching? (Not that XP's icon-based switching is any better.) How am I supposed to tell the difference between the five text documents I've got open? Wait, I know, there's the document title. A text-based list (such as Opera's Ctrl+Tab) is by far the most efficient means of switching between applications. I won't let you get away with singing Windows 7's praise, because besides putting more back buttons in, all the interface changes in Vista suck.
But yeah, I suppose Windows 7 is essentially what Vista should've been.
Originally posted by serious:
the rss-button
Firefox of all browsers decided no longer to display it by default anymore either, following Chrome's complete and utter idiocy.
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elrice last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by serious:
Win7 was awesome compared to XP and esp. Vista
I don't know; it still comes with Vista's biggest (or at least most immediately obvious) annoyances: the start menu and Aero. Then again, the default XP theme was far more hideous than Aero, but Vista basically broke the classic theme. On XP I actually used Codename Opus. Did I mention I despise thumbnail-based window switching? (Not that XP's icon-based switching is any better.) How am I supposed to tell the difference between the five text documents I've got open? Wait, I know, there's the document title. A text-based list (such as Opera's Ctrl+Tab) is by far the most efficient means of switching between applications. I won't let you get away with singing Windows 7's praise, because besides putting more back buttons in, all the interface changes in Vista suck.
I tend to prefer winkey+tab when multiple documents open... still a visual task switcher but at least sized to be usable.
Out of curiosty, I can understand those with lower sys resources shying away from Aero, but what's the issue with the Start Menu? The in-built searchbar is a god-send.
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by serious:
the rss-button
Firefox of all browsers decided no longer to display it by default anymore either, following Chrome's complete and utter idiocy.
Not one of their wisest moves I must say
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d4rkn1ght last edited by
Originally posted by misteromar:
I was wondering where the majority of Opera's user base will be migrating too? What are the commonly accepted best replacements?
SeaMonkey is the only browser I found that has integrated mail, IRC, etc... I have been collecting some extensions to try to make it be even closer to Opera. Still, SeaMonkey will never be Presto Opera but it is the only remaining browser suite since Opera change direction and striped all their classic features. :awww:
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artmil last edited by
Originally posted by LeoCG:
Opera Blink is not and never was a Chrome clone. Not even the UI is the same.
Yea, sure cloning the source code repository and applying some patches/modifications to it doesn't make it a clone... I laugh everytime when i read that the new "opera" was created from scratch...
Originally posted by LeoCG:
And...? They are based on the same engine and that is just it, they are not clones.
No, both new opera and chrome are based on the same browser(chromium) with applied patches, that's a lot more then just an engine.
And just because of that, it never will have all the features of o12 - it would require to much effort to keep up with chromium. In the worst case scenario it would require to fork the code which would make the whole "moving to chromium" pointless...Originally posted by Al-Khwarizmi:
It doesn't have the customizability of Opera
(Firefox) Actually it is a lot a lot more customizable then opera ever was/will be. Unfortunately it's not as easy as in opera if you don't want to use extensions.
Originally posted by d4rkn1ght:
SeaMonkey is the only browser I found that has integrated mail, IRC, etc...
And its ugly as hell... i don't want to compromise the user experience for features. I'm a greedy bastard and want them both...
If not opera then the only real alternative is firefox... Most of what i want/need can be achieved without extensions the biggest problems are the sidepanel, mail/rss and the new ui that is planed which brings new restrictions... if it was not for that i would use it already and wouldn't be wasting my time here.
There are other small projects like midori or qupzilla but... -
salahuddin1 last edited by
Originally posted by d4rkn1ght:
Originally posted by misteromar:
I was wondering where the majority of Opera's user base will be migrating too? What are the commonly accepted best replacements?
SeaMonkey is the only browser I found that has integrated mail, IRC, etc... I have been collecting some extensions to try to make it be even closer to Opera. Still, SeaMonkey will never be Presto Opera but it is the only remaining browser suite since Opera change direction and striped all their classic features. :awww:
Hey darknight. I was looking at SeaMonkey as well. What is your experience with this browser? Is it easy to import all my Opera contacts, messages, bookmarks etc into it? Do you know how it stands in terms of performance to the mainstream browsers? I don't think I can weather this storm of the new Opera without a clear roadmap on when/what features are going to be reimplemented. In any case, I sent you an email to your Opera account if you wouldn't mind replying.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Salahuddin1:
I was looking at SeaMonkey as well. What is your experience with this browser?
I have experience with the Mozilla suite before it hit 1.0. Seamonkey is its straightforward continuation. If you have had experience with both Firefox and Thunderbird, you have also a good idea about Seamonkey.
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salahuddin1 last edited by
I have experience with the Mozilla suite before it hit 1.0. Seamonkey is its straightforward continuation. If you have had experience with both Firefox and Thunderbird, you have also a good idea about Seamonkey.
Do you know how easy/hard it will be to import my data from Opera? In particular, I keep a lot of messages in "directories" in Opera Mail.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by elrice:
I tend to prefer winkey+tab when multiple documents open... still a visual task switcher but at least sized to be usable.
Eh, it's better in some ways but still horribly slow and inefficient to me. On XP I like SmartTab.org, while on Linux I prefer smartswitcher and Fuzzy Window Switcher. These aren't equivalents or anything, but one thing they all share is that they're trying to improve on the same kind of window switching I've been using since Windows 3. NB That's not exaggeration; I mean Windows 3.x in the most literal way possible.
I'm not sure if there's a window switcher on 7 that I'd like because I upgraded from XP to Debian. Windows Vista/7 broke all that was keeping me on Windows in the first place.
Originally posted by elrice:
Out of curiosty, I can understand those with lower sys resources shying away from Aero, but what's the issue with the Start Menu? The in-built searchbar is a god-send.
It's inferior to pre-Vista alternatives like Launchy, which have been available for years. This inferiority can be found all over the board, in such diverse areas as speed, accuracy, and features. The size is ludicrously small, although you can somewhat fight against the default so you can actually use folders somewhat more the way they were meant to be used. Nevertheless, it completely kills any capability to order your own menu according to your own precise wishes.
The only problem with the start menu is that all programs insist on filling it with junk, but in principle it can be great. See e.g. the GNOME 2.x menu or how it still is in Xfce for a rough indication of how I always used my start menu in Windows. In fact there are an awful lot of things Linux distros tend to do by default that I always forced upon Windows before I even had a clue what Linux was, but that's another topic.
PS I'm aware that Classic Shell can fix up the start menu however I like in Windows 7 or 8.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Salahuddin1:
I have experience with the Mozilla suite before it hit 1.0. Seamonkey is its straightforward continuation. If you have had experience with both Firefox and Thunderbird, you have also a good idea about Seamonkey.
Do you know how easy/hard it will be to import my data from Opera? In particular, I keep a lot of messages in "directories" in Opera Mail.
Export mail folders (or by contact or by any filter you like) from Opera. Move the exported file to the right place in Thunderbird/Seamonkey profile while the apps are closed. Then open. Done.
In older times, when Opera still had big files for email, it was not even necessary to export, just copy the files. They share the format rather closely.
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laurentparis last edited by
Firefox seems to be the closest match in terms of options (I had never tried it before but the unnervingly slow and buggy implementation of the most basic features in the new Opera drove me to it). It takes quite a few add-ons to bend Firefox to your will but once you've started it becomes hard to stop and refrain from adding new things.
The downside is that the Firefox team also seems determined to ruin their browser (not to the same extent as Opera, though) by trying to imitate Chrome and its lack of native options (especially with the upcoming of the 'Australis' design). The problem with relying too much on 3rd party extensions for customization is that each new version of Firefox seems to break some add ons and their developers don't always bother to update them.
Originally posted by serious:
same goes for trolls ... just saying...
:lol:
Originally posted by ersi:
How could this be? The statistics is OFFICIAL. They did RESEARCH!
yeah, that they could come to this conclusion is baffling and should make them seriously rethink how they collect and analyze user data. Everyone I know in real life (not just "power users") uses bookmarks. The only explanation I see is that the users who allowed data gathering weren't actually using Opera (or that particular build of Opera) for their daily browsing and only kept it for testing or as a back-up browser.
