Where do Opera 12.16 users go now Opera is dead?
-
Deleted User last edited by
My point is simple. You stated: "In my opinion nobody is going to use, or switch to, Opera UNLESS it can offer something different." I counter with: balderdash. That's nothing more than a personal opinion and frankly there are absolutely no facts to support it. An opinion based upon feelings is relatively useless. That's my point.
Additionally: yes, you have a right to state your opinion. You have a right to make the claim that you are the re-incarnation of the last tsar of Russia but that doesn't make it so. You have the right to state that nobody is going to use or switch to Opera UNLESS it can offer something different but again... that doesn't make it so. Opera is NOT a Chrome clone. It is a browser in development. Features will be added back over time. We're on the front end of this development, so to speak. If the browser at this juncture doesn't cut it for you, then use v.12. If that no longer works well enough for you, then use some other browser. But don't try and make the case that the unfinished browser is not going to succeed because it lacks features and is currently not different enough to make others want to switch. Time will tell the tale. It's too early to make predictions of failure and from the little that has been reported, it appears that success is closer to the mark.
-
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Staiger:
As has been said loads of times already, if you remove those unique features you simply end up with a Chrome clone. What would be the point?
Well, it is not a Chrome Clone, and won't end up as one.
Originally posted by Staiger:
Of course, I'm not suggesting that Opera should clone every single feature of O12 in their new browser. But - speaking only for myself - there are many features that are really difficult to duplicate in any other browser, to the extent that I'm not interested in the new Opera until it meets my minimum list of O12 features.
No doubt everyone else has their own set of "essential" feature, just as you and I do. I shall just keep using Opera 11.64 until the features I need are available in Opera Next.
Originally posted by Staiger:
If they don't do that, there would seem to be a big risk of losing existing users and not gaining any new ones.
They will lose some users, but they will gain more new users, which is why they made the leap to a Webkit/Blink based version. Whether we like it or not, they will implement the features that most users need, not what you or I need. If existing users are unwilling to adapt, they are sure to be disappointed, because they won't find all of Opera's unique features in other browsers either.
There are several comments in various blog posts about the roadmap. Just keep using the version that you like, and follow the Desktip Team Bllog or try out Opera Next and Opera Developer versions if you want.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
They will lose some users, but they will gain more new users, which is why they made the leap to a Webkit/Blink based version. Whether we like it or not, they will implement the features that most users need, not what you or I need. If existing users are unwilling to adapt, they are sure to be disappointed, because they won't find all of Opera's unique features in other browsers either.
There are several comments in various blog posts about the roadmap. Just keep using the version that you like, and follow the Desktip Team Bllog or try out Opera Next and Opera Developer versions if you want.
This is by far the best (and most succinct) advice I've read on these forum threads in months. Actually, it opened my stubborn eyes as well.
-
sorin0306 last edited by
I agree with Staiger
You, (opera developer) are going on wrong way
Yes Opera 16 is much faster than Opera 12 but ...
When I first try Opera 16 it seems like a dejavu of Chrome
For me now Opera = Chrome
But considering the advantages of chrome like built in translation, more supported browser, and other features I chose Chrome
I use Opera from 9 years, I'm very disappointed now. -
leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by
Originally posted by Staiger:
Why's that, then? I mean, the thing that differentiates Opera from all the rest are the innovative features it has introduced. It got several million users BECAUSE it was so different, not DESPITE that. In my opinion nobody is going to use, or switch to, Opera UNLESS it can offer something different.
Opera Blink will have some of the Opera Presto features - the useful for (almost) everyone as i said - and many othe new an unique features. Besides that, it will (re)gain users just because of the fact that it now renders pages better, including some of the most popular ones.
Surely some Opera Presto users will not move to Opera Blink because of the lost of their pet features but Opera (Blink) will gain new users.
Originally posted by Staiger:
As has been said loads of times already, if you remove those unique features you simply end up with a Chrome clone. What would be the point?
Opera Blink is not and never was a Chrome clone. Not even the UI is the same.
Originally posted by Staiger:
Of course, I'm not suggesting that Opera should clone every single feature of O12 in their new browser. But - speaking only for myself - there are many features that are really difficult to duplicate in any other browser, to the extent that I'm not interested in the new Opera until it meets my minimum list of O12 features.
I miss a few features of Opera Presto (Opera 12.16) but i've also noticed that i can live without many other ones.
Originally posted by Staiger:
I would be MUCH more inclined to stick with Opera if they gave us a much clearer roadmap of what features they intend to implement, and when. That way I'd have something to look forward to. At the moment they have told us almost nothing. In the absence of any information, people are going to drift away.
The are talking about what they are working on now than in the last 15 years. Developers are answering peoples question in a way a rarely have seen before.
The problem of a public roadmap is that, unfortunally, most users can't deal with the fact that things can change and so the roadmap can change.
-
al-khwarizmi last edited by
Responding to the OP (ignoring the flamewar).
I'm still using 12.16, but for the sites where it doesn't work, I have tried several browsers and the least bad I could find is Firefox.
It doesn't have the customizability of Opera, but at least it does have some basic settings, and it supports the classic menu bar which is an important feature for me. So that's where I'm probably going to migrate when web standards change and 12.16 becomes unusable, although I'll always keep an eye on Opera Developer in case it finally gets good enough to convince me to use it.
-
missingno last edited by
Originally posted by LeoCG:
Better having an Opera with less but useful for (almost) all people features than one with lots of features that 99% of people really don't need.
Yes, that's what they said when "forgetting" about a sufficent number of lifeboats at the Titanic.
Originally posted by LeoCG:
Opera Blink is not and never was a Chrome clone. Not even the UI is the same.
Compare the screenshots and tell me again. And what do you mean with "Not even"? The engine sure is the same. So if I put a (red O) sticker on a Mercedes, it is totally no Mercedes anymore but an Opera? Oh wait, Opera would have also removed the car radio (or any entertainment device) as 90% of the drivers they asked don't use it.
-
s1nwithm3 last edited by
Get over it, this is the same BS I hear about people switching from Win7 to 8/8.1 - Times changes & so do other things so deal with it. If you were a loyal Opera user you wouldnt complain but embrace this new change.
Yes, I was slightly disappointed when I lost some customization but I've grown past it. I use Opera on Windows 8.1 & have used Opera since I first found out about it through my phone & I LOVE IT. Faster, better, more ME. If u wanna put a custom BG on ur speed dial then find where Opera saves the themes, open one in some sort of zip opening program, add a new picture to that folder (w/the same name as the original one) then rezip the folder & overwrite the original... I have a custom BG & this is how I achieved it.
Grow up, if you were a TRUE Opera fan you'd stick w/it & not bitch about things changing, EVENTUALLY Opera plans to implement all the old features into this new engine but they gotta figure out exactly how to do it with Chromium - remember they're limited to what Chromium allows them to do.
So, either stick with Opera like the rest of us or move on... Were all so tired of people coming here & complaining about the new Opera.
Idk about the rest of the forum members but I use Opera as my default browser (my gf uses Chrome) and I refuse to use the Windows alternative [IE] I switched her over cuz IE was being REALLY slow -
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by missingno:
Oh wait, Opera would have also removed the car radio (or any entertainment device) as 90% of the drivers they asked don't use it.
Disagree. Discover is some kind of addition to the car radio. They removed the GPS, or at least its address finding features.
-
missingno last edited by
Isn't Discover just a (bad) excuse for removing RSS feeds?
I thought comparing bookmarks to the car radio sounds reasonable enough. add: Because GPS still isn't included as widespread in todays cars as radio devices. -
leocg Moderator Volunteer last edited by
Originally posted by missingno:
ompare the screenshots and tell me again.
Everyone that compares a screenshot of Opera Blink and another one of Chrome will easily notice that they are different products.
Originally posted by missingno:
And what do you mean with "Not even"? The engine sure is the same.
And...? They are based on the same engine and that is just it, they are not clones.
-
-
-
stng last edited by
Originally posted by missingno:
Isn't Discover just a (bad) excuse for removing RSS feeds?
RSS is obsolete, outmoded technology. Internet overlords (g...e) decides so.
-
-
staiger last edited by
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
Get over it, this is the same BS I hear about people switching from Win7 to 8/8.1 - Times changes & so do other things so deal with it. If you were a loyal Opera user you wouldnt complain but embrace this new change.
I'd like to respond to this by saying something very simple: change is NOT always for the better. I've driven technological change throughout my 30+ year career, and I can say one thing for sure: some change is GOOD and some change is BAD. Change and progress are two very different concepts. It's progress we want, not change per se.
Therefore it is completely reasonable to question ALL change and ask the very simple question: "Does this change make things better or worse?" Progress only works if people ask that question, then filter out the bad changes and nurture the good changes. Otherwise we just go around in circles and don't actually make progress.
If people see changes in Opera that don't constitute an improvement, then damn right they should say so.
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
Grow up, if you were a TRUE Opera fan you'd stick w/it & not bitch about things changing..... Were all so tired of people coming here & complaining about the new Opera.....
Hey, come on, let's remain civil! As I say, it's OK for users to evaluate changes and decide for themselves whether they constitute progress, just change for the sake of it, or even regression. Right now Opera 16 is far less functional than Opera 12, so the changes so far have resulted in an overall regression, not progress.
By commenting on these changes the Opera team get feedback on what changes are popular and feel like progress, and what feel like regression. A classical case is bookmarks - feedback from users made the Opera team reprioritise the work in this area, because the loss of bookmarks felt like a big regression to a lot of users.
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
EVENTUALLY Opera plans to implement all the old features into this new engine.....
Hang on! Opera have NOT said that. They've said the opposite - check the blogs. They've said that they want to ditch some of the more "confusing" features (without telling us what they are). The worrying thing for me is that some of those "confusing" features might be those that I value very highly.
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
So, either stick with Opera like the rest of us or move on... Were all so tired of people coming here & complaining about the new Opera.
I've stuck with Opera since the days when we had to pay for it! I doubt you're in a position to lecture me on staying power and loyalty.....
-
stng last edited by
Staiger
Hang on! Opera have NOT said that. They've said the opposite - check the blogs. They've said that they want to ditch some of the more "confusing" features (without telling us what they are). The worrying thing for me is that some of those "confusing" features might be those that I value very highly.
Yeah. "Fit to window width", for an example. According to the Opera's Team, this feature frustrating beginners and not experienced users (when it's enabled accidentally it' can "break" a web-site). But, i value this one very high.
p.s. I have a 16:10 display but still find the FTW useful. -
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by STNG:
Staiger
Hang on! Opera have NOT said that. They've said the opposite - check the blogs. They've said that they want to ditch some of the more "confusing" features (without telling us what they are). The worrying thing for me is that some of those "confusing" features might be those that I value very highly.
Yeah. "Fit to window width", for an example. According to the Opera's Team, this feature frustrating beginners and not experienced users (when it's enabled accidentally it' can "break" a web-site). But, i value this one very high.
p.s. I have a 16:10 display but still find the FTW useful.And bookmarks were also a confusing complicated overly advanced feature that was used by nobody according to official statistics. Then they decided to reimplement bookmarks because the user base turned out to be "passionate", not because anybody actually needs the feature...
Anyway, the list of features deemed unnecessary by the current management can easily be derived when you compare the feature set of v.11-12 to the feature set of 15-16.
-
serious last edited by
Originally posted by s1nwithm3:
Get over it, this is the same BS I hear about people switching from Win7 to 8/8.1 - Times changes & so do other things so deal with it. If you were a loyal Opera user you wouldnt complain but embrace this new change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability ! I don't complain because stuff changes (hell, Win7 was awesome compared to XP and esp. Vista), but because people change stuff for the sake of change and not to improve stuff. For me Op15+ simply is a huge pile of junk usability-wise because I use a ton of features which it does not have any more - like bookmarks shortcuts, or the rss-button (not even the reader, just the button to get the feed-url without having to hunt through the whole site where it might be hidden), or tons of other stuff...
Originally posted by ersi:
And bookmarks were also a confusing complicated overly advanced feature that was used by nobody according to official statistics.
I wonder if this is because most "advanced" users answer "no" when asked if you can collect statistics or disable it in preferences
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by serious:
Originally posted by ersi:
And bookmarks were also a confusing complicated overly advanced feature that was used by nobody according to official statistics.
I wonder if this is because most "advanced" users answer "no" when asked if you can collect statistics or disable it in preferences
How could this be? The statistics is OFFICIAL. They did RESEARCH!
