no redundant backup of saved session? seriously?

khaavik

khaavik

leogc,

Did you have something useful and appropriate to say in clear English or did you just want to score pissing points?

As I said, Opera was set to resume the session, did not do so, and is apparently unrecoverable because there is no redundant backup so when the resume fails to resume it overwrites the saved session leaving us with bupkis. This is not a good design, and telling me that you personally believe I should have worked around it in the operating system by independently backup up my session every day is not useful.

Software is suppose to work with some reliability. Did you not learn that in engineering school?

"Maybe you could try renaming 'Last Session' into 'Current Session'."

If you could tell me where on my machine there is a "Last Session" to rename, that would be helpful and would constitute an actual answer to my problem. I do not see one and am unaware of one. This is Opera 45 under windows. I have been using Opera for about 12 years but have not kept up with all the changes in paths and organization because it's a utility, not my religion.

khaavik

khaavik

Blackbird71, if you chose to live in a world where you can lose all of your data because the software can't be bothered to keep a backup of a file which is under a meg in size, then you deserve the software you have. The rest of us live in a world where software has existed long enough to be made stable and reliable and to NOT implement something so simple in a utility program is sheer programmatic incompetence. Honestly, if I coded like that I'd be unemployed.

This is exactly why I avoid forums -- they're an echo-chamber for big fish in small ponds.

blackbird71

blackbird71

Ok, first, @leogc's primary language is not English, so you might want to reconsider your personal attack on him. Second, any failure to create independent backup or utilize sync was yours, not his nor mine. Third, if you're running Windows (you haven't yet stated your OS), a simple file search should locate any named file on your system. Depending on the files still on your system (or on some form of backup), there's a chance - small, perhaps, but still finite - that something useful can be recovered. If you previously enabled Windows own 'shadow-copy', there may even be internal backups available for named files (by right-clicking its name and looking under Properties > "Previous Versions").

Telling you that you should have worked around the problem by independent backup is indeed both useful and sound advice, but in your current and understandable frustration over the crash, you're not able to receive it. Your system crashed, and probably will again; systems DO crash - sometimes frequently, sometimes rarely, but never at opportune moments or in predictable ways. Internal software crash-recovery mechanisms can only go so far in anticipating all avenues of failure and their consequences, else the software would become so large and unwieldy as to negate its primary purposes and usefulness. It is a user's responsibility to make sure they have independent protection against data loss - a hard reality, but reality nevertheless.

You state you've been using Opera for 12 years, so you're not new to computers; you also indicated earlier that you've been building up a 50-tab collection for 3 months which was important to you... yet you never created an independent backup? What about your other programs and data - what if your hard drive dies or you sustain a major virus/ransomeware infection?

leocg

leocg Moderator Volunteer

As I said, Opera was set to resume the session, did not do so

Sorry but I couldn't see where did you say that. You just said that a system crash happened and you couldn't restore your previous session.

and is apparently unrecoverable because there is no redundant backup so when the resume fails to resume it overwrites the saved session leaving us with bupkis.

Well, not that it has happened that many times but I would say that in 99% of the times I had to deal with a crash I was able to get my session back by just reopening Opera.

I guess that most probably the crash broke your Opera profile so Opera could not access it and for that reason a new one was created.

Software is suppose to work with some reliability. Did you not learn that in engineering school?

I'm not a Engineer.

If you could tell me where on my machine there is a "Last Session" to rename, that would be helpful and would constitute an actual answer to my problem.

Go to Menu > About Opera and see the path to Opera's profile folder. There you will find those files.

khaavik

khaavik

Yes, I am running windows 8.1. That's why I posted in "Opera for windows".

No, there is not a previous version of the file available. Asking the internet got me that far. I am here because there is not a previous version of the file available in the (crappy) OS.

Hence my question as to whether there is a backup file in Opera of which I am unaware, like a "previous stable version" folder or a "Previous Session" folder. Since you have all spent your time scolding the user instead of providing answers, I guess the answer is no.

I despise windows as an OS. I am only running it because I didn't have the time and money to better when the old machine died. But the thing I despise MOST about windows is how it has trained people to accept bugs, memory leaks, and the general refusal to write robust software. We should not need to get regular software fixes. We should not need to backup our files in case the software eats it. And frankly, I could have had the same problem if I had RAID. Opera willfully overwrote my files and did not maintain a backup of its prior state. The fact you do not see that as a problem IS the problem.

zalex108

zalex108

Actually Windows 10 (at least until Anniversary update) Restore point option is not enabled by default, so worst than that...

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blackbird71

blackbird71

... We should not need to backup our files in case the software eats it. And frankly, I could have had the same problem if I had RAID. Opera willfully overwrote my files and did not maintain a backup of its prior state. The fact you do not see that as a problem IS the problem.

Having personally used and written a lot of software since the days of the Intellec 8, one reality I've found to be constant is: hardware, software, or the power source will always find a way to fail in an unanticipated manner. Because information-conveying patterns of electrons are too small to see and highly volatile, there can be no fully effective and certain recovery mechanism other than duplicating those exact patterns onto other storage mechanisms (and preferably multiple other sites) as backup against the problems that will occur.

Opera overwrote its working files because that's how it has to operate to automatically self-recover in the presence of key corrupted files. Its session backup (the previous session file) could have been over-written if the restarted Opera itself was re-restarted, either manually or during the auto-update that occurred for whatever reasons. (Which, by the way, is one of several reasons that I personally and on principle dislike auto-updating immensely). No matter how many auto-backup versions of sessions files that Opera had incorporated, there would be possible failure/restart scenarios that would destroy each.

What would be useful would be a feature to save copies of a particular set of files/session/configuration in a 'safe' place upon user demand - assuming, of course, that the user remembers to occasionally invoke that step. Opera has something of that sort if one utilizes sync, but sync carries its own set of issues, particularly in multiple-computer scenarios. At the end of the day, there can be no substitute for a user creating and maintaining his own independent backup records of important data and settings. And it will always be thus, since failure modes do and always will exist. Unless you only use a computer to browse the Internet, there will be other data and settings besides Opera's that are also highly important to you. If nothing else comes from your crash experience, it should be the illumination of a need to create and maintain sound, independent backups.

khaavik

khaavik

Thanks for the condescension. It would be fairly simple to keep a redundant backup of the previous session file. A world view which puts that onus entirely on the user and not of the product is exactly what is wrong with software engineering these days. No one should need to use a backup except in case of hard drive failure, and with proper hardware that should not be an issue either. The point is NOT to build the sexiest program possible and patch holes in it weekly. The point is to build something reliable. And yes, everything can fail at some point but handling a fairly common error with a small amount of data would be -- professional. Heck, why is there no backup of the previous state for when you hose an "update"?

Enjoy your clique. I'm gone.

zalex108

zalex108

Opera does some back ups of the Bookmarks file calling them Bookmarks.bak, so for those files like last session, current session, WebData could do the same, at the program closes and before any update.

Actually if they has any problem with that, opening the "BackUp" help after installation and/or adding a Bookmark in SpeedDial could be enough...

Many users has complains about that, could be the time to give a fix, even in a simple way.

If now Opera it's not for Geeks, then some details should be easily fixed.

At the other hand,
@Khaavik, I could understand you are expecting more from Opera, but didn't had any problem before where a back up saved your work?
I remember even with Opera 12.xx the needing of manual/software back ups.

But in every case the user's configuration is mostly needed.

Also, LeoGC and many other Moderators are not Opera employees, they help freely.
Even more, there are some rules and a FAQ where mostly every question is already answered.

So despite the frustration, please, try to be kind.

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"You cannot know the meaning of your life until you are connected to the power that created you". · Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

paulofreitass

paulofreitass

I've lost a many months session with +290 tabs recently and it was so frustrating to know that there is no way to restore them. I can't use history to get them back because the history was cleared recently and I've been using delayed tab loading, so only a few of them was opening between sessions.

My laptop ran out of free disk space and my Opera had freeze for some time and then I decided to force close its process to open it again without knowing I had not disk space. It was my fault to not make a regular backup of my profile, it was my fault to not use Opera Sync, it was my fault to close the process without knowing I had no free disk space left, but I guess it was not my fault the fact that the "Last Session" file have got truncated.

It would be way better to have the old session file than losting everything with a truncated file. It would be VERY VERY VERY nice if Opera had a way to auto save the session state in a second file and write it back to the main session file when needed and, in both cases, save them atomicaly instead of truncating and overwriting - so that you save the contents to a temporary file and later replace the main file with it, so if anything goes wrong the file get untouched. If the main "Last Session" file get lost in some way, you can still recover the "Auto Saved Last Session" file. Please, someone file this request to the development team. This would save lives.