Posts made by saiyan

Thanks for the info.

So where should we report this bug to Opera devs if they don't read this forum?

I installed Opera 30 on a test PC running a clean-installed Windows Server 2012 R2 with latest updates and the browser always shows "Loading..." on the tab title without actually loading anything

I tried click on Settings and tried "opera://settings/", "opera://plugins/", "opera://bookmarks/" and so on but the browser keep showing "Loading..." on the tab title bar and shows a blank page. I even left the browser running for two hours and it was still "Loading..."

I uninstalled the browser, deleted user profile, cleaned registry and re-installed Opera again but the same problem remained.

Internet Explorer and Firefox I installed do not have any problem.

Windows event logs show no errors related to Opera either.

I have other Server 2012 R2 installations running Opera without any problem.

Does anyone what can I check to find out why Opera keeps "Loading..." forever?

Is there any command line option for debugging or logging errors?

Thank you.

Thanks for the info.

I know this is developer release not Opera Stable release but I wonder why Opera would release a new version with this bug unfixed because this is a very annoying bug.

Also pressing "." key (which is another shortcut key for find function with advanced keyboard shortcut turned on) also crashes the browser.

My two PCs running Windows 7 and Windows 8 both have their Opera Developer auto-updated to 28.0.1719.0 today.
But the updated version would freeze when I attempt to search strings on any web page via Ctrl-F.

Basically as soon as I press Ctrl-F, Opera Developer 28.0.1719.0 would freeze (except on the speed dial screen).

Anyone else has this problem?
Thanks.

Opera Developer 25 crashes often on my Windows 8.1 test VM too..
Opera Next 24 also crashes...
Opera Stable 23 okay..

I also noticed the latest Opera Developer 25 also tends to crash just like Opera Next 24.
I hope whatever is making these beta browsers crashing will be fixed before they are released as Opera Stable..

Do Opera developers read message in this forum?
I have feeling out complaints are going nowhere...

It looks like the built-in bookmark manager in Opera Developer 25 is a step in the right direction.

There is finally a search option and you can create folders on the left navigation panel but sub-folders do not seem to be possible. (Yes, I know abusing sub-folders in bookmark manager may lead to a messy bookmark collection).

Here is my suggestion to deal with the lack of sub folders.
If the left side panel only allow single level folders, I would suggest Opera implement groups within each folders so users have additional option to organize their bookmark collections. In my experience, having two levels folders in a bookmark collection is useful in organizing bookmark collections and I rarely use three or more levels of folders in bookmarks.

I suggest Opera take a look at online bookmark Draggo and look their visual implementation of "category".
(Bookmarks on Draggo can be categorized by Tabs and within each tabs you can have multiple categories).

Here is a sample of Draggo bookmark collections some user decided to make them accessible to the public:
http://draggo.com/251/science-and-health

Perhaps Opera developer can implement something similar that users can add inside each folder..
Basically the main bookmark folders would be equivalent to Draggo's tabs and groups would be equivalent Draggo's categories.

If the built-in bookmarks will be improved further and makes its way to the Opera Stable release, I may start using Opera as my primary browser again.

Right now I only use various Opera for web development testing purpose.
The built-in bookmark manager should have a feature included when chrome based Opera was first released.

I still don't believe that so called survey or auto-collected usage statistics that says 99% of users have never added one single bookmark in Opera. Most likely those users only install and run Opera for testing or evaluation purpose and are not using Opera as their primary browsers. Who actively maintains a bookmark collection in their secondary browsers? I don't. My bookmark collections are still in Opera 12. Other browsers (IE, Firefox, Chrome) on my desktop all have empty bookmarks.

Opera Next 24 would still crash often even if I have all plugins (including Flash) disabled by default.

I have "opera://plugins/" bookmarked on the bookmark bar so i can disable or enable plugins quickly.
Normally I have all plugins disabled by default.

There is not particular page that will always trigger a crash.
However, I noticed Opera Next 24 tends crash when I load a bunch of pages in background tabs in quick succession.

For example, when browsing a new web site if I see three or four interesting articles I would normally middle-click their links in quick succession to load them in background tabs. When doing this type of operations in Opera Next 24, there is a 30% to 70% chance of browser crashing depending on the web site. Oh, one site that comes to mind is Steam's store web site.

After the most recent update a few days ago, I noticed that Opera Next 24.0.1558.25 on my Windows 8.1 test PC tends to crash and re-start when loading some web pages.

Opera Stable and Opera Developer do not have this problem.

Has anyone else noticed instability when using Opera Next 24?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Pesala:

...

Presala,
As much as I would like to see you answer my questions, I just realized you probably will not bother. Because if you are as dispassionate as you claimed to be, you were probably thinking "whatever" after reading my questions. (You are still welcome to answer those questions if you like).

Since this conversation is becoming unhealthy, there is probably no point to continue.

Just reading all the user complaints about the new Opera browser as well as various responses you have posted in the forum, I just realized there is no point to post any complaints about the browser here anymore. Futhermore, Opera developers themselves also appear to be as dispassionate as you are about some user complaints.

I will probably come back one year later and see if Opera programmers bothered to add bookmark manager or other good features.

You can go ahead and lock this thread.
(I assume you are a forum admin based on the fact you have posted over 26800+ messages here).

Originally posted by Pesala:

.....

I am a bit disappointed that you did not answer my questions.

Curious mind would like to know why you are so hypersensitive (compare to average people) that you feel offended when I used the s word to describe a software feature. And you like to respond to others with that fanboyish/arrogant/nonchalant attitude. Yet, you are apparently a dedicated Buddhist.

There is something about your personality that does not compute.

Unlikely your other comment that I need anger management, I was not angry.
However, I was irritated by your fanboyish, arrogant, nonchalant attitude.

Also you claimed in another thread that you are simply being dispassionate.
But you came across as someone who lacks empathy (not to mention being hypersensitive).
Is that dispassion gone wrong?

Anyway, you are not obligated to answer my questions.
So if you are not in the mood to answer my questions, just say so and I will not pursue the matter any further.
After all, this conversation is already off-topic..

Originally posted by Pesala:

You quoted my reply, then complained instead of saying thank you for the help given, which pointed you in the right direction.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Your attitude sucks, using CAPS LOCK sucks, and I find your posts offensive, nevertheless I helped you to resolve your problems. Now you know at least two things you didn't know before — how to reduce the thumbnail size in the stash, and how to organise bookmarks on the QAB.

Let me make things clear.
All you did was pointing out certain behavior of the QAB folder and reduce thumbnail size in stash.
You did not resolve my problem at all.
And in case you forgot, my problem is a lack of a proper bookmark manager in new Opera browser. Furthermore, as I have mentioned in another thread the bookmark importer never worked for me and there are no proper tools to import bookmarks from other browsers.

So you think my attitude s***?
Is it because I use the s word, entered the s word in uppercase letters and failed to say "thank you" to you?
If so, have you try to wonder why I responded the way I did?

I will tell you why and I don't care if you are going to hate me.

I have read many messages you posted in various threads in response to users complaint about the lack of proper bookmark manager.
You tried to tell people to use SpeedDial and QAB instead of complaining about the lack of bookmark manager.

Yes, you have provided some tips which would help users to use SpeedDial and QAB so perhaps you think you are trying to help but you seem to have failed to realize those two features as the way they are implemented are not replacement of a good bookmark manager.

In your responses to me and to other users, you have consistently dismissed bookmark manager as an unimportant feature and defended Opera's decision not to include a built-in bookmark manager by mentioning some survey Opera conducted. But when I want to discuss about the so called survey, how to interpret its data and whether the the data is valid, you don't want to go there. (Is there any reason why you wouldn't want to talk about the result of Opera's survey?)

From my point of view, you appeared like a Opera fanboy and you have this arrogant and nonchalant attitude toward users who have complained about the lack of bookmark manager.

In my mind, I am wondering why you kept defending Opera, dismissing bookmark manager as unimportant instead of acknowledging that it is a important feature for some people and why you seem to lack empathy to understand why some people feel frustrated about the lack of a bookmark manager.

It is because of this fanboyish, arrogant and nonchalant attitude you have shown, I feel the need to use s word in uppercase to describe some missing feature and it is also the reason why I don't feel you have earned a "thank you" from me.

When I argue with people and if they use the s word to describing certain things (not person) being discussed, I know they are frustrated. Certainly no way I would think their usage of s word is offensive.

When I help out people online or in person, I don't look for "thank you" or any favor in return.
And if they use s word in their response, I know they are frustrated.

But here..
You are so hypersensitive when I used the s word, not toward you or used it to reference you, but to describe some missing software feature?
And you feel you deserve a "thank you" from me while you are being fanboyish, arrogant and nonchalant?

Yes, saying "thank you" is a common courtesy and I normally do that when I received help from others but if I said "thank you" to you, it would have empowered your fanboyish and nonchalant attitude further.

Originally posted by Pesala:

May you one day find the path leading towards nibbāna.

Your hypersensitivity to my usage of the s word describing some missing software feature and you feel the need to be thanked suggest you are heading in the opposite path away from nirvana.

Given your hypersensitivity and are easily offended, you are probably hopping mad right now reading my response.

Since you are a Buddhist and Buddhism is well known for its teaching of compassion and empathy, here are my questions for you.

1) Would you dare to use your empathy and look at things from other's point of view to see that you have responded to others with a fanboyish, arrogant and nonchalant attitude when addressing their complaints about the lack of bookmark manager?

2) Why are you, as a Buddhist, so hypersensitive to my usage of the s word describing some software feature?
The s word was not even used to describe you or reference you.

I'm no where near nirvana and I don't feel offended when people use the s word to describe things (not person) because they are frustrated. I also don't look for "thank you" from other people when I help them out.

To be fair to you, I will use a little empathy and try to imagine what it is like to be you being so hypersensitive.
There is something about hearing the s word that drives me mad, I don't know why but it doesn't feel good.
There is something wrong about not receiving a "thank you" and that makes me unhappy even though I should not care as a Buddhist.

In other words, for some unknown reason you are upset with my usage of the s word (describing some software feature) and I failed to say thank you to you.
So here is my official apology: I am sorry for using s word and thank you for providing tips.

With that being said.. My apology is not an excuse for you to ignore my questions.

Yes.. I still want to know why you are so hypersensitive and why you have not realized that you appeared fanboyish (by defending Opera consistently), arrogant (by dismissing bookmark manager as an unimportant feature) and nonchalant (by failing to understand empathically why some users feel frustrated) toward users who complained about the lack of bookmark manager.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Originally posted by saiyan:

No search?? That SUCKS!

When people help you, try to reply politely.

Rules of Conduct: Respect your fellow community members, and don't vent your frustrations at them.

I said "that sucks" in which *that* refers to the lack of search function in QAB.
No where did I reference you personally in my complaint about QAB.

So I don't see how my complaint about QAB can offend you personally unless you simply don't like to hear the word "suck" at all regardless of its context or usage.

Nevertheless, I will refrain from using word here again. Hope that you will make you happy.

For someone who has supposedly reached nirvana, you sure can be easily offended.

Originally posted by Pesala:

There's no search, but multi-level folders are available.

No search?? That SUCKS!

Okay.. So just figured out I have to create folder on the root level first and drag and drop the new folder to existing create multi-level folder.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Here is the Source

Since 2007 we've been asking randomly-selected people if we could anonymously collect information from their Opera install (via opera:config#UserPrefs|EnableUsageStatistics) so we could see the features they use. Some of these users have volunteered to give us this data since 2007.

Based on the group of 100,000+ users, we saw that more than 90% of our users never actually added a single bookmark to the ones shipped with Opera.

And how many of those people are using Opera as their primary browser?
How many people here have bothered to maintain bookmarks on any browsers which they use only as secondary browsers?

Originally posted by Pesala:

While power users do want bookmarks, Opera's user survey results indicated that 90% (sic) of users never added a single bookmark!

I wonder when and where Opera did such a survey.
I have never received such a survey so that makes me wonder what users answered the survey..

Did users hastily answer and submit the survey without reading what they are answering?
Did Opera ask question in the right way or interpret answer correctly?

I find it hard to believe 90% of users never added a single bookmark!

I have helped setup PCs and Macs for many friends and their friends. (Yes, there are a lot of people who are simply not familiar using PCs or installing programs on PCs).

Whether those people use IE, Safari, Firefox or Chrome, just about all of those people use bookmarks to save web pages which they think are important. Users who were not aware of bookmarks in browser would ask "how can I save link to this web page". Well, that's when you inform them about bookmark manager in the browser.

Perhaps users meant they don't use bookmarks 90% of the time browsing the web.
Well. I don't use bookmarks 90% of the time in browser.
But that does not mean 90% of users don't use bookmarks at all.

Or perhaps 90% of Opera users responded that they never added a single bookmarks in Opera because they don't use Opera as their primary browser???
That would mean they most likely use bookmarks in other browsers!

I have been using Opera as my main browser for many years, I have NOT bothered adding a single bookmark to IE, Firefox or Chrome..
In fact, I have empty bookmarks in IE, Firefox and Chrome.

So if Mozilla send a survey to me asking me "how often I add bookmarks to Firefox" and I respond "never", should they interpret my answer that I don't ever use bookmarks in a browser?

Originally posted by Pesala:

To address your specific points:

1. Zoom out to reduce the size of Speed Dial thumbnails. (I would also like to use my own images as I do now).
2. Drag the slider up to remove the Stash thumbnails completely. (I am not sure if I would ever use the Stash. I think some will like it).
3. Drag and drop bookmarks and folders, and bookmarks between folders (not possible on the Bookmarks Bar in Opera 12.x), sort bookmarks alphabetically, edit folder names to make more fit on the QAB.

1) Zoom out Speed Dial page is not useful unless you want to read tiny size text.

2) Yes. Drag the slider on stash page does reduce the image size..

3) QAB is missing search function and multi-level folders. I have manually added a lot of bookmarks and folders to QAB for testing and I hate to rely using QAB to maintain bookmarks.

Just give us the same bookmark manager in Opera 12 and you will make a lot of people happy.

After many frustrating attempt using Opera 15 through 18 and failed attempts to import bookmarks, I really hope the Opera developers should realize that the lack of a proper bookmark manager is not helping.

First of all, as both a professional programmer/web developer and a power user I have been using Opera version 8 through 12 as my primary browser because I like its features, user interface and its support for web standards.

However, Opera browser has never been well known nor popular among most PC users. Only some power users would even bother to install and actually use it. Most power users treat Opera as a third class citizen in the browser world mostly because compatibility issues with web sites which use bad browser sniffing codes.

Personally I would NOT recommend Opera (Presto based) to any of my non-techie friends nor would I recommend it to my parents. I'm sure many of you who use Opera would not recommend Opera to your parents or non-techie friends either unless they are techie themselves and know what to do when Opera failed to load some web pages properly.

This means the potential users of Opera are really some adventurous power users and that is a very small group of people.
Based on my observation, many power users using Opera are also professional programmers or web developers.

And do you know what is one feature programmers or developers like to have in their browsers?
A proper bookmark manager.

We need to bookmark technical articles, blogs, and discussion threads on various web sites so we don't need to google for them again when we need to read them. We will want to organize our bookmarks based on various subject matter using sub-folders.

That means we power users will almost certainly end up with a large but organized list of bookmarks.

I don't know why some users such as Pesala kept defending the new Opera and dismissed the importance of a proper bookmark manager.
May be they are just technical geeks who don't do actual programming for living or has no need of a proper bookmark manager.

These users suggested import old bookmarks and use the following features instead:

1) Speed Dial (with giant thumbnail images)?

I prefer iOS 7 Safari's icon based favorite home page vs SpeedDial thumnail images but I"m sure some people like SpeedDial the way it is. Perhaps Opera can provide a icon based alternative to SpeedDial thumbnails in the future.

2) Stash (with even bigger thumbnail image)?

This is a nice feature but waste a lot of screen space.
I use it a few time but it doesn't seem very useful may be except as a "temporary bookmark" location where you can save links to some interesting web pages which you think you will re-visit again but not important enough to earn a permanent spot on your bookmark list.

3) QAB with no bookmark management capability?

If QAB is supposed to replace bookmark bar, please provide bookmark management functions and make it a proper bookmark manager.

IMO, SpeedDial, Stash and QAB are not suitable replacements of a proper bookmark manager.

Import bookmarks into SpeedDial or QAB?
Furthermore, I haven't been able to import my old bookmarks successfully into Opera 17/18.
There is not even a tool to import HTML bookmarks exported by other browsers. Really?

So I don't see how Chromium/Blink based Opera can attract or motivate power users to use it as their primary browser.
As for casual users? They will use either IE, Firefox or Chrome...

Why would most users choose Opera over Goolge Chrome which has a built-in bookmark manager and much better extension/app ecosystem?

If Opera developers really want to attract and motivate (power) users to test and use Chromium/Blink based Opera as their primary browser, at least they should include a proper bookmark manager such as the one from Opera 12. And please provide a better tool for importing bookmarks from old Opera and other browsers. Just because we are power users doesn't mean we need to mess with Opera flags parameters and run Opera with command line options just to import old bookmarks.

I have already tried the command line option "--presto-small-prefs-dir" before and it did not work.

FYI. I had Opera 12 x64 installed before so my Opera 12 profile is in C:\Users[my_user_name]\AppData\Roaming\Opera\Opera x64.

And here this is what I ran at the command line window.

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Opera\launcher.exe" --presto-small-prefs-dir="C:\Users[my_user_name]\AppData\Roaming\Opera\Opera x64"

Opera 18 launched with all new profile and enabled QAB.
When I entered "opera://bookmark-importer" in the address bar and clicked on either "Convert to Speed Dial" or "Convert to Quick Access Bar", the "Imported Bookmarks" is basically blank except a "Back" button a message that said "Bookmarks inside a folder will be merged into one Speed Dial folder.".

(If the wrong profile directory was entered at command line, Bookmark Importer won't even have this "Imported Bookmarks" section displayed.