Posts made by prometheus-za

Iow something that clutters up the user space and far from not needing to be sorted actually being uncustomisable and of limited use.

Well, space shouldn't be a problem nowadays as computers usually come with lots of space.
Anyway, it doesn't need to index all the pages, it could index only the pages that the user wants.
Another alternative would be the use of a(n) (automatic) tag system.

Harddrives come with lots of storage space. Screens don't come with lots of viewing space. You know I wasn't referring to the former. How is it going to index only the pages the user wants? Oh yes! BOOKMARKS!

ranted there may be the occasional email only user or the person only using their browser once a month but even most of the non power users have found bookmarks to be helpful at some point. There's no denying that for those who need and use them they DO work.

As i said, it may work for some but it doesn't work for others. It's 50/50.
On a classic bookmark system the person needs to decide if that page should be bookmarked or not then choose where to bookmark it - depending on how the person sort their bookmarks, a page can be bookmarked on various (sub)folders. After or while doing it, the person changes the bookmark/page title to makes it easier to be find.
Too much work for me. I would like to be able to type something on the address bar and get a list of pages in which those words appears, including a "preview" of the text. Like in Opera Presto.

You know it's not 50/50. Come on be honest for once. So bookmarks is too much work for you but you can't assume the majority don't use them when they in fact do. Again what better system do you have that provides all the functions? An index only works if it's still cached. And it doesn't solve the problem of being no better than google in pointing out the correct page but instead a load of irrelevant garbage.

Google or any search engine for that matter can never be a replacement for bookmarks.

Maybe but people nowadays use them more and more to go to pages and to find (already viewed) pages. People search even for urls they already know.

Not an argument for replacing bookmarks.

And what if the page is one of perhaps 80+ very similar pages that each carries a different weather-satellite image but has no uniquely searchable page text?

Well, maybe a manual tag system.

Which we then call bookmarks. A hundred internets to you for reinventing the wheel just out of stubborness not to remove it.

And what would that be oh great one?

The full page index like in Opera Presto. Something that could release the user from the needing of sort the info everytime s/he wants to bookmark something.

Iow something that clutters up the user space and far from not needing to be sorted actually being uncustomisable and of limited use.

Bookmarks have been with us for over two decades because they simply work

They may have been working for some people but not for me and not for lots of people.

Weasel words. Granted there may be the occasional email only user or the person only using their browser once a month but even most of the non power users have found bookmarks to be helpful at some point. There's no denying that for those who need and use them they DO work.

Nobody has been able to come up with a better solution.

Maybe because people have never been able to deal with new approaches.
Btw, new generations bookmarks is called Google.

What blackbird says. Google or any search engine for that matter can never be a replacement for bookmarks. Problem with new approaches is that some "brightspark" always tries to force something unwanted and cumbersome in place of something that's always been a necessity. New isn't always better you know.

I think its up to Opera developers path it wants to choose. But I will just say.

It is. The main problem here is that their response so far has been neither here nor there, not saying that the features are gone for good but also not saying that they will eventually return. As users we deserve as much as a proper response at least.

And talking about bookmarks, i think that it's more than the time to get rid of that 1990's bookmarking style and move something more dynamic.

And what would that be oh great one? Bookmarks have been with us for over two decades because they simply work. They don't clutter up the user space but are there when you need them. Nobody has been able to come up with a better solution. Ironic that the people arguing for simplicity now want to introduce even more complex solutions proving that even they can't go without the features and customisation of the old Opera.

I can't believe some are still so blind to the obvious issues, or perhaps just choose to be in order not to admit fault. Anybody still claiming that the new chrome clone is a good browser or on the right track is seriously out of touch with reality. It can't even get the basic functions right.

Open more than 20 tabs and it keeps crashing some of them or even the whole browser. I understand multi-threading but it doesn't inherently make your app more stable and you don't need to literally create a whole separate process for each tab to use it. That is flawed design and it's just the tip of the iceberg. Other issue are:

• The new design completely removes the title bar so web page titles have to be viewed from the taskbar.
• Opening it non maximised leaves an ugly fat window border no matter if border padding is set to 0 like mine or to something humongous. It doesn't respect system settings like even a basic "hello world" program does.
• It gets even worse. There's no option to right click open in the current tab meaning you either have to invoke the on-click javascript or open in a new (background by default) tab. The old Opera had all 3 options.
• Opening an image in the current tab is no longer there. Only the option to open in a new (again background by default) tab. So you have to manually close the parent tab same as with above.
• Speaking of images it seems to act like they don't exist or are unimportant. A lot of them don't render and there's no option to reload them by right clicking. So much for the sophisticated rendering engine that for me have also failed where the old Opera's simply works.
• And on the subject of tabs, besides that they open in the background so you have to manually navigate to them, there appears to be no consistent opening sequence. Some gets opened next to the active one while others get lined up next to it or even worse gets appended to the end. Probably why they removed the option to select this as they can't seem to get the behaviour right.

There's simply too many problems and inconsistencies to list. I called it an app before not by mistake but because that's exactly what it is. This is not the Opera browser, it's a port of a mobile app. All the telltale signs are there. Try telling anyone with a straight face they aren't. Yeah right...

C:\Program Files\Opera\profile\data or where you chose to install

If you closed the tabs you most likely won't get them back as they were all stored in memory. Older open tabs may be contained in session.dbak or session.dbcrash files. If you rename these to session.db after making a backup it may have some of the recent tabs.

Bookmarks shouldn't be hidden through some obscure setting and then a manual address. For the average user my statement still holds.

It's not surprising that there's only one mention of it. Most of us that relied on the old opera features are either stuck on version 12 or have moved on to other options. Nobody is currently sure what the future of opera is.

Only if you really value your privacy. On normal HDD's when deleting a file it's not really deleted but the reference to it is removed and it's marked as free space. At some point it will be overwritten by new data. SSD's complicate the issue however. When a sector has been written to it can't be used again until it's erased. The problem is that erasing is a timely operation and for this reason data gets erased not as individual sectors but as blocks of data, typically in the region of 1MB as opposed to 512 bytes. For this reason SSD's have extra capacity to serve as replacement for sectors that haven't been erased. To complicate the issue even further the wear leveling on modern SSD's will try to ensure that all sectors are used equally. Writing to the same logical sector again may therefor write to a different physical sector.

Even on normal HDD's data can remain for years on sectors that aren't used often but in some cases old data have been found on SSD's even after a decade. The upside is that HDD's can erase data while SSD's have no such option and even the suggested secure erase of an entire disk isn't guaranteed to do so.

Forget the replies. New Opera doesn't have bookmarks. Bar isn't bookmarks and developer versions aren't final public versions.

So Opera is finally realising its mistake and going back to old features?

Or maybe they just realized that people nowadays seems to be not ready yet for some changes and that taking a step back may be better than keep "fighting".

Or maybe taking a step back is Opera realising unwanted change can't be forced. That's the MS m.o.. Luckily with Windows any part of the system can be changed and MS has reverted back from some of their forced changes. Opera on the other hand can't. I'm not going to argue with you again over which features YOU think should be in Opera. There is no reason stash can't be a add-on like it is with other browsers for the few that actually want it. Proper bookmarks like every basic browser has however can't.

So Opera is finally realising its mistake and going back to old features? I'll wait then to replace it and see if it returns to what it was.

prometheus--za
In my view, you speak solely for yourself. All of this "we" and you speak for the "vast majority of users." Now please. Who took a public opinion survey, and who elected you as the Voice? Now I don't purport to speak for others. Only for myself. If you agree with me, well fine. And if you don't, that's fine too. I believe in the importance of the individual. There can be a thousand voices saying X, and one individual saying Y, and that individual voice is still important. Sometimes, the individual voice is the only one right against the great hullabaloo of the majority. And of course, I can be wrong too. Though I don't think liking Opera 22 is a question of right or wrong. It is a matter of taste.
Yes, in your view. You haven't been paying attention to the topics on the forum or you just wish to ignore it. I will say it again, I speak for the majority of users who HAVE ALSO SPOKEN FOR THEMSELVES. It's the last bit you seem to be ignoring. I am expressing the very same sentiment that others have.

We don't need a public opinion survey when the opinions are already all over this forum and you just have to look at them. Public opinion is also reflected in the browser stats which you still seem to ignore. In case you have forgotten, Opera has lost almost a third of its market share since Opera Next. Of the remaining share almost half are Opera Mini users and the remaining desktop users is split almost 50/50 between Opera 12 and Opera Next. That alone should be enough to tell you what public opinion is.

Now I didn't say extensions provide full and complete functioning. They complement the native browser. If people are posting the same subject often, no way does that mean there's a real problem. Why, what's the real problem? That the New Opera is significantly faster, can access sites better, has access to a huge range of extensions that the Old Opera never had before. Or is the significantly better Speed Dial (with folders) a problem? No way! Let me shout it from the rooftops. It's the best Speed Dial on the planet. Look I understand where you're coming from too. And that you can argue the other side -- that there is another side. We're just people with two different perspectives. There's no right or wrong to that. Now in part, people are posting the same subjects in the forum over and over, because this forum search engine is awful.
And people get the same responses over and over, that there's no solution other than sticking with Opera 12. That together with the other issues that you ignore indicates there's a real problem. You can continue shouting the speed dial (ironically a feature) from the rooftops. You don't seem to understand that for those of us that don't use it it's irrelevant how good it is. You seem to be under the wrong impression here that it's somehow the featurelessness of Next that makes it faster. It's not, so using it as a basis against features is a non-sequitur. Rightly there are different opinions. It's also clear that accommodating a minority view inconveniences a vast number of people while the opposite is not even remotely the case.

As for subject issue, I for one -- and I speak for no one but myself -- would like Opera to not permit additional default search engines for the Opera address bar, if they see it as a significant danger to the user, particularly because the work-around of one measly letter or maybe two in front of a search is minimal. But I do respect that you have a different view. If Opera did permit additional default search engines (even though they thought there was a significant user risk with them), they'd have a large responsibility to educate the users on why in most cases it would be safer not to use them. I fear many casual users would not pay attention though, and might be innocently hurt "big-time" through malware or viruses. Not everyone is as sophisticated as you may be on making the choice.
It's not my opinion but logic. For hopefully a final time here, SOPHISTICATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. It's not Opera's prerogative to play nanny if security is the issue but as has been pointed out there are much better ways to deal with browser jacking if it is. It's not an inconvenience to anybody to add a checkbox to allow changing the default search engine.

You speak for yourself, prometheus-za. What is this "us." You haven't been elected to represent others. Not every Presto person favors Opera providing default search engines that are not safe. You do. Some others may well not. This is no monolithic group. Even for other features. Could you come up with a list of features that everyone agrees on that they want -- even amongst Presto users? I doubt that. There are a range of different interests -- among people who love Presto, and those who favor the Blink engine, on this and even on other issues.
I speak for the vast number of users who have added their own voice on the forums. They speak for themselves as well. Neither have you been elected to represent others in deciding what the browser should be. The issue has never been Presto vs Blink. Opera has had many engines before and the users and those who leave it has never been decided on an engine but on features. You don't seem to realise that the two are separate issues.

And I have never said that everyone who wants features a la Presto is ranting. Most people in the forum, who favor Presto-like features, and those who don't do not rant, or flame-bait, insult others, or even the Opera company. It's generally a great group of forum-goers, who treat each other with decency and respect. So we differ on some opinions. How boring the world would be if we all agreed. And without essential civility, the forum moves in the direction of worthless. However, it's time on some issues to smell the coffee brewing (hmmmm, I'm worthless in the morning before I've had my few cups;))) -- to face the fact of Opera's change to a Blink engine, that is designed to make use of extensions for full and complete functioning. Some may want Opera to go back to Presto, but I think it's delusive, in my humble opinion, to be so out of touch with the reality of the situation.
Smell the coffee on what? Opera has moved on to Blink, so what? They have however been mainly silent on their intent on the other issues. There's also no such thing as extensions that provide "full and complete functioning." The two concepts together is an oxymoron, at least in the way Opera implements it.

And when posts become totally repetitive -- the same issue or issues raised over and over again -- it can have the untoward effect of choking/stifling the forum. Going back a decade or more -- my presence here is almost ten years -- the forum has been a huge strength of Opera, where people helped each other, in making the browser work for them -- at least as much so as was possible. That was the essential function that was carried out,. It was the best browser forum on the internet. If it's lost in fighting and dissension, it is a major loss.
So you admit that there are many people posting the same issues. If that's the case it surely mustn't be hard to see that there's a real problem. Yes as a long time Opera user I know the forum has been a great place of people helping one another. That is no longer the case because the core functionality for that is gone. It's stay with the old browser or lose the functionality. The loss as with any software will be decided by what the developer does and not the community.

Exactly. But if i lost the feature or features I want and value highly, I wouldn't rant and rave, as some Presto people have. I'd look at the current browsers, and possibly move on to another if it was better for me. And I'd accept change.
Aside: On bookmarks, I have no problem with some improvements. I support a bookmarks manager importer from third party browsers. I would like Opera Blink to support exporting the bookmarks as html. It would be nice to have Opera, when it takes a bookmark let you put it in a folder, subfolder, etc, or create your own folder for it, all as part of the action of taking the bookmark. I have already posted that already as my suggestion. And I would find more keyboard shortcuts helpful. Absolutely. But I'm not hooting and howling at Opera as part of an enraged mob. ;))) Let's give them a little space and time.
And that is the point. You would be no different than us and may even state your intent like any fan of Opera would. The only difference is that we would not call your complaints rants. Opera has been given space and time but their responses to the issues is neither here nor there.

And I do right now enjoy the browser. I find it highly promising. On search engine -- which is this suggestion-item-thread -- I 'd rather Opera stay with offering search engines that are safe, and the ability to use others with a one or two letter code. ;). I defer to them on the safety issue here. Ending up in a dangerous website (with downloaded viruses and malware) can be a disaster. They don't have to give users a choice, the exercise of which, they feel is highly dangerous, when there's such a reasonable saving option -- a one (or maybe two) letter code in front of the search query (something that even a moron can do) that would solve the problem, until the threat of the hijacking issue can be remedied. As soon as it is, may there be more default search engines!
That is your own preference. It is not ours. As we have said the issue is not security. There are much better ways to deal with hijacking than removing functionality.

Opera has always had a speed dial. They invented it. It is a feature that attracts me as a user. If they dropped it, and there wasn't an adequate extension (but I'm willing to use extensions), I might well go elsewhere for a browser.

And there you sum up the sentiment we have towards bookmarks, search engines, scortcuts etc.

Sorry I meant shortcuts. Where is the edit?

Why do you say it is a "good post" when someone has posted there must be an option to change the search engine to a new default engine other than the five provided in Opera, when other search engines were deemed by Opera unsafe because of adware and malware hijacking searches? Not everyone using Opera may be as sophisticated as you are and no how to solve that issue. I think the additional burden (to minimize the search risk) for the user to type maybe one code letter before putting their search query (when they want to use a search engine they added to Opera, which is not one of the five default engines) in the address bar is so small that Opera should not add more default engines until they are satisfied that the risk of hijacked searches has significantly diminished.
It's not up to Opera to play nanny to users that don't know how to handle their browser. As we said there are better ways of dealing with it from a security pov like not allowing sites to change it without user permission.

Why is someone saying there must be an option to change the search engine to a default other than the five provided in Opera a "good post," when other search engines were deemed unsafe because of adware and malware hijacking searches? Not everyone using Opera may be as sophisticated as you are and no how to solve that issue.
Most power users want that functionality. Opera is a browser traditionally aimed at power users. Again none of us being inconvenienced now have ever had the problem of malware. To combat the possibility is easy by providing the option by default to not allow sites changing it. You do not have to be a sophisticated user to then untick a box to allow it. This is not a decision based on security.

I am delighted with the current browser (though look forward to improvements too). I just want to appreciate what is here now too. If we can't enjoy the browser as it currently is, we just suffer waiting for for changes that may never come . . . I have no idea who your other avatar was. Your avatar now has only been here three days. I've never called you troll. I'm not saying to hell with you. Constructive criticism of Opera is fine, but when the tone is that of an angry rant, it's not. Then it poisons the forum.
We are not delighted with it because it's mainly unusable for us. If changes won't come then we should be told so we can move on from the dream that once was reality. So far we have gotten an ambiguous response saying functionality will be added but all features may not be added back. That is neither here nor there.

I'll state this again. I'm not a new user, I didn't create a new avatar (username). I simply asked for my existing username/password with my registered email but opera seems to have deleted my profile together with myopera/blogs. I'm not sure who called me troll, could have been leushino too. Point is our criticisms are meant as constructive. We wouldn't be making them if we didn't love Opera. It's your choice if you see them as such and come up with a solution to a real problem or just wave them off as ranting. Most of the angry rants have been directed towards the handwaving and uncivilised remarks that we shouldn't be criticising.

1. Option to change default search engine is a must. There's no one relevant reason to force me to use specific search engine(s). Any browser can change this. Oh sorry, any except Opera.
2. Using keywords = custom search engines is great. But default is here to be used without keywords. And I want to use another search engine as default specified. Now I have to use keyword, and if I forget, I have to use some harsh words :X.
3. Search is essential for browsing. It should be basic setting. Using extension to change this is nonsense and rocket science. And sure even in Firefox if you want really custom search engines, you have to use extensions. Also crazy. But this setting is available in Chromium, Opera can simply inherit it. They removed it willingly and replaced. I understand it. Sometimes it's better to use some "fork" of development of feature. But please make it user friendly.
4. From good old times I still remember Opera as innovator. Bringing something new, and better. I could use any search engines in Presto Opera. So why new Opera is willingly removing good features, and forcing us to something? It should be better, not otherwise.
   DON'T FORCE US TO USE SOMETHING YOU THINK IS RIGHT FOR US!!! IT'S NOT, AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S RIGHT FOR ME!!! SO I WANT BE FREE TO CHOOSE IT!!!

Good post. Unfortunately some still won't get it. Extensions like the ones Opera has can't provide functionality that the browser did. If you want proper extensions you have to open up the browser API completely but Opera doesn't want that as it would introduce vulnerabilities so Opera has to provide the functionality. I have never had a problem with a site, even ones flagged as unsafe by Google, changing my browser settings. If security was the issue here there are other better ways to handle it like making it unchangeable by default except by the user. But that would mean adding some functionality instead of removing it. Surprise, surprise.

This agreement with everything Opera developers do is not good for the future of the browser. @lem729, your handwaving here simply doesn't cut it. You are happy with the state of things so you're saying to hell with everybody else that isn't. Problem is that your speeddial you love so must doesn't go with your vision of a bare bones browser. Question, what if Opera removed it and you had to use an extension? Before answering keep in mind that an extension would most probably not provide the functionality you're used to.

You and leocg can keep taking cheap shots at me, abusing the word troll and referring to my supposed forum age, then close topics highlighting real issues. I have been a long time Opera user commenting on the forums and blogs which for some reason Opera decided to delete my profile and created it again when I logged in. We are the ones addressing real issues here which you simply wave off.