Jon von Tetzchner, Opera's founder and former CEO spoke to The Register
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Sawo:
52 million in August, 51 million by December.
It's easy to play that game. You should have checked the data relating to desktop Opera Presto (11~12) before. :rolleyes: 60 million in 1st quarter of 2012, 52 in 2nd quarter of 2013 - that was with Opera PRESTO.
http://www.operasoftware.com/company/investors/financeOriginally posted by Sawo:
For the company it seems every download and install is counted as "users being on the new product".
Nope, I remember they saying they count active users. Opera phones home at least for BrowserJS so they know it.
Also, worth mentioning other bit of info in the 4Q2013 presentation that is "Cuts churn by more than 25%", Haavard explains this in Twitter as "(more users are sticking with the new version than the old one)".Originally posted by Sawo:
"Major part of user base is now on the new product"
Like many other users on these forums, I keep downloading, installing, and trying out every new release of Opera Blink - in the vain hope of seeing it develop into something worth using. So far, no joy. Opera 12.16 is better in every respect but site compatibility, for a handful of cases. And in unfortunate fact, every other Chrome Clone on the market is better than Opera Blink, too.
Major part of the user base still disagrees with you... Just saying.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by cdysthe:
Clarification on the numbers:
Opera has somewhere north of 330 million users. Of these users:- 248 million are using Mini.
- 22 million are using Mobile.
- 51 million are using Desktop.
- 30 million are using Opera on Wii, DS and other devices. I think that number sounds high, but lets go with it. These are all Opera numbers.Out of these, all Mini users are using Presto. More than half of the desktop users are using Presto, using 3rd party stats. All Wii, DS and other device users are using Presto. Mobile, I am not sure, but I would expect a significant number of the 22 million are using Presto.
Out of these, all Mini users are using Presto. More than half of the desktop users are using Presto, using 3rd party stats. All Wii, DS and other
device users are using Presto. Mobile, I am not sure, but I would expect a significant number of the 22 million areusing Presto.Adding this all together, it is clear that about 300 millon of the 330 or 350 million users are using Presto, the browser engine powering Opera 12
It makes sense, it's misleading in the interview as it says "Opera 12".
Still, I think he tries to convince us of the statement following it ("It was the wrong move.") by saying those kinds of things, but another points to pay attention to are:
- Of course Mini users are still on Presto, there's no Mini-Blink. Until a new Mini product or version not based on Presto is released there's no way to measure success using the number of Mini users.
- Opera 12 users still haven't received any auto-update notification so many don't even know a new version exists.Regarding the third-party statistics, there's no point on relying on them as Opera already publicly stated >50% of the desktop user base is on the new Opera 15+.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Nope, I remember they saying they count active users. Opera phones home at least for BrowserJS so they know it.
Opera defines who an "active user" is, by what criteria we don't know.
As for browser.js, in both versions 12 & 15+, it is downloaded & installed automatically, unless updates are manually turned off:
Opera automatically checks for updates to Browser JavaScript once every week. Any updates will be automatically downloaded and applied the next time a page is loaded in Opera. http://www.opera.com/docs/browserjs/
So merely trying out Opera Blink can be enough to get it download, if that should be what constitutes an "active user",
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Major part of the user base still disagrees with you... Just saying.
Just saying you are a major part of the user base, together with leushino?
Sure, there have been positive opinions on Opera 15+ in these forums - I remember them from about 3-4 different accounts.
There have also been unfavorable ones, from a lot more than that, but of course there are all "whiners" and don't count.P.S.
in 2nd quarter of 2013 - that was with Opera PRESTO
The switch to Blink was announced in February of 2013, the version 15 beta was published in May.
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missingno last edited by
Opium still uses browser.js? Wasn't the purpose of it to "hack" site compatibility with Presto and the purpose of the switch to Blink to have this site compatibility out of the box and therefor save the hassle of having (to maintain) a browser.js?
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rafaeljvieira last edited by
Originally posted by missingno:
Opium still uses browser.js? Wasn't the purpose of it to "hack" site compatibility with Presto and the purpose of the switch to Blink to have this site compatibility out of the box and therefor save the hassle of having (to maintain) a browser.js?
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by missingno:
Opium still uses browser.js? Wasn't the purpose of it to "hack" site compatibility with Presto and the purpose of the switch to Blink to have this site compatibility out of the box and therefor save the hassle of having (to maintain) a browser.js?
Yes it does, strangely enough. Visit http://www.opera.com/docs/browserjs/ with any version of Opera Blink and check for yourself:
Current browser.js status: enabled. Target version and time stamp of the active browser.js file is Opera OPRDesktop 15.00 core 1326.63, February 7, 2014. Active patches: 15 .To see the current source code of the surprisingly persistent browser.js, go to this URL:
https://github.com/operasoftware/browserjs/blob/master/OPRdesktop/browserjs-15.0.js
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tradeofjane last edited by
Originally posted by leushino:
The team that developed it is essentially gone.
But wait, doesn't that contradict the claim that everyone who worked on Presto is still working there? Funny, I thought everything was ice cream in rainbows in the wonderful world of Opera.
Originally posted by leushino:
There is NO turning back now and no matter how many threads are begun stating the disenchantment with the new browser or bemoaning the loss of features of the former, Opera Next is the new browser and the only browser that will be developed... period. If there are features you would like to see added back, be respectful (something that appears very difficult for you) and state them in the developers' blogs where they will have a better chance of being noticed. In the meantime, you can easily continue using a Presto version alongside the newer Blink version "if" you want to see how Opera Next is developing. If that is not satisfactory and does not meet your needs, then use another browser. In all of this, whining, complaining, swearing, threatening, bullying, labelling etc etc etc are both counter-productive and somewhat indicative of "other" problems (which I will mercifully leave unsaid).
And if you don't like people complaining about how badly ChrOpera sucks, stop acting like a paid shill and b*tching about everyone who b*tches about Opera.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Tradeofjane:
And if you don't like people complaining about how badly ChrOpera sucks, stop acting like a paid shill and b*tching about everyone who b*tches about Opera.
Take a deep breath. No need to show your true colors with vulgar language. :whistle:
The forums are intended for members HELPING members. Really, that is the long and short of it. I know you believe it helps your cause (and that of the other complainers) by labelling others, using foul language, threatening, bullying and generally disrupting but that is against the tos. Please abide by them.
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tradeofjane last edited by
Originally posted by leushino:
The forums are intended for members HELPING members. Really, that is the long and short of it. I know you believe it helps your cause (and that of the other complainers) by labelling others, using foul language, threatening, bullying and generally disrupting but that is against the tos. Please abide by them.
And who the hell have you helped? You're only here to do damage control for Opera.
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Deleted User last edited by
Such an angry little man. Ah well... hopefully your type of trolling is nearing an end.
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caghans last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
The difference, perhaps, is that we have more people now than we used to. That's how we can do proper integration on all platforms. We actually have the resources to do a properly integrated user interface now.
duuudeee....
news flash!
you ruined it all up. come on! it was a huge mistake to change the interface, you removed simply everything that makes the opera unique.you are the "keeping it real fake chrome" right now. with all respect to your hard work and dedication to your company and friends etc.. but these are not the same things. i mean, this is a ruined, down in the sewer product so far (on pc i mean).
for example coast is great, every opera on phones, awesome. but other than that, opera on desktop... wow, so much backwards, so chrome... very usual, nothing special
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Sawo:
So merely trying out Opera Blink can be enough to get it download, if that should be what constitutes an "active user"
Noo, idiot, of course after about a week or month if there's no new request from the same user they take it out of the count.
Disabling auto-update in Opera-Presto doesn't stop BrowserJS fetching (or something else that also phones home, I don't remember).Originally posted by Sawo:
Just saying you are a major part of the user base, together with leushino?
Sure, there have been positive opinions on Opera 15+ in these forums - I remember them from about 3-4 different accounts.
There have also been unfavorable ones, from a lot more than that, but of course there are all "whiners" and don't count.No, I'm talking about the official numbers you're happy to ignore when it makes you feel better.
As aways said, the forums constitute a minority of users and it's observable that people are more prone to come to bash or talk when they have problems than to come out of nowhere with motivation to praise.Originally posted by Sawo:
P.S.
in 2nd quarter of 2013 - that was with Opera PRESTO
The switch to Blink was announced in February of 2013, the version 15 beta was published in May.
A version that most users didn't even knew about at the time and don't know about even up to this day. A version that if caused anything would be based on a too early judgment because the users would have to assume it was feature-complete.
I don't believe it was the reason for the decline of number of users...
You can see the drop already happening before February, before the announcement about the switch to Chromium... -
A Former User last edited by
from vivladi
seems like Jon is preparing new browserhttps://www.facebook.com/vivaldi.browser
https://twitter.com/VivaldiBrowser/
http://whois.domaintools.com/vivaldibrowser.com
http://whois.domaintools.com/vivaldibrowser.netall those acc's were registered around 6-7 months ago
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by vux777:
seems like Jon is preparing new browser
Hmm so first bashing the competition to prepare ground...?
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alf5000 last edited by
Originally posted by vux777:
from vivladi
seems like Jon is preparing new browser
light at the end of the tunnel??? -
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Hmm so first bashing the competition to prepare ground...?
Regardless Jon is preparing ground for new browser or not, lots of unhappy users (with new Opera) agree with him
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Deleted User last edited by
Noo, idiot, of course after about a week or month if there's no new request from the same user they take it out of the count.
Disabling auto-update in Opera-Presto doesn't stop BrowserJS fetching (or something else that also phones home, I don't remember).Insults already? You are living up to your reputation…
From the page on browser.js:
Automatic checking is controlled by the Browser JavaScript and Check For New Opera settings in Opera6.ini.
And the explanations of the settings file OperaPrefs.ini
Browser JavaScript Whether to download and use the browser.js file. Enable by setting to 1, Opera will then download the file and set to 2. 0 = Never download or use 2 = Use and check for updates weekly 1 = browser.js signature invalid. On next check for update, a new browser.js will be downloaded and the value set to 2.Is there any actual proof for your assertions on what an "active user" is, and how they are counted?
Or are you just making things up as needed, so you can affect an air of superiority?As aways said, the forums constitute a minority of users and it's observable that people are more prone to come to bash or talk when they have problems than to come out of nowhere with motivation to praise.
Yes, as you have always said, time and again, in the face of anyone with opinions different from yours.
In a pompous, self-righteous and ranting tone, to the point of nausea.Couldn't you just talk to yourself in the future, without involving the forums? You'd get a more appreciative audience, and It would save everyone else a lot of exasperation. In the interest of Opera, I hope as few as possible of your "contributions" will make the transition on March 1. No need to discourage any potential users with a bad impression of its user community.
Please don't bother with a reply, this discussion ends now for me.
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blackbird71 last edited byOriginally posted by Sawo:
As aways said, the forums constitute a minority of users and it's observable that people are more prone to come to bash or talk when they have problems than to come out of nowhere with motivation to praise.
Yes, as you have always said, time and again, in the face of anyone with opinions different from yours...
FWIW, in an extremely limited sample (that perhaps still makes a general point), I personally know of exactly 11 other persons in my close circle who use Opera. Only one of us has even tested out New Opera. I am the only one of all of us registered at My Opera or who has ever posted here, in large part because I've installed most of their Opera installations for them and have answered their ongoing questions, in some cases by coming here and asking on their behalf. I believe that the simple reality is that for most kinds of software, the great majority of users don't ever register at a forum and ask questions - and certainly, most don't register just to make comments unless they're both extremely upset and are activist/sanguine by nature.
The point is that a software forum - any software forum - is a fairly good cross section of only a very small segment of users... it provides little accurate insight into what the great mass of users are actually doing or thinking at that same time. That is, software forums have an inherent, natural bias among the broad universe of users. This forum is no exception. None of this is to say what the broad mass of Opera users think about the redesign. I'm not sure anybody (including Opera ASA) yet knows an accurate answer to that. My personal opinion is that most users would currently find New Opera "uncomfortable" to some degree compared with their Old Opera, but most haven't even looked into it - but, of course, that's purely my opinion and conjectural based on my own circle of personal knowledge. Eventually the various market data counts and summaries will begin consistently telling the story; until then, nobody really knows.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Sawo:
Noo, idiot, of course after about a week or month if there's no new request from the same user they take it out of the count.
Disabling auto-update in Opera-Presto doesn't stop BrowserJS fetching (or something else that also phones home, I don't remember).Insults already? You are living up to your reputation…
From the page on browser.js:
Automatic checking is controlled by the Browser JavaScript and Check For New Opera settings in Opera6.ini.
And the explanations of the settings file OperaPrefs.ini
Browser JavaScript Whether to download and use the browser.js file. Enable by setting to 1, Opera will then download the file and set to 2. 0 = Never download or use 2 = Use and check for updates weekly 1 = browser.js signature invalid. On next check for update, a new browser.js will be downloaded and the value set to 2.Is there any actual proof for your assertions on what an "active user" is, and how they are counted?
Or are you just making things up as needed, so you can affect an air of superiority?http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=how+opera+counts+active+users
You'll find this blog post by Haavard.
You'll find an old interview with Jon where he says how they count active users ("We have people checking of updates and that's when we count them.").
And also Bruce Lawson here in the comments.
Believe it or not, it's by some kind of update-checking. And in Mini it's obvious they can use the necessary connection to the servers to count.LOL and you think the number of people who disabled BrowserJS or any sort of updates is high enough to twist the numbers? What a joke.
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missingno last edited by
Update-checking also isn't the true answer.
For example, I use a copy of Opera on my desktop at home as well as a copy of Opera on my notebook. I also have Opera Mobile on my phone. I have a copy of Opera on the Wii (which certainly does not get any updates) and I bought one for the old DS (but sold it with the console some time ago). I run a copy of Opera at work and I do have a portable installation on a USB stick. So how many users am I? How many users is Pesala? How many users are you?
