Full url in Opera 17. Any chances?
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Originally posted by ersi:
Now, would you be able to articulate a defence for mangling the url on the status bar as eloquently as you have in case of address field?
Honestly I haven't even noticed the http:// part is trimmed from the floating status bar, when a link leads to a different protocol like a https:// or ftp:// URL it's shown though so there's your way to verify it. The rest of the URL is there...
My question was if you are able to defend any mangling of the url on the status bar, as you are trying to defend the mangling of the address field. Since you offered no defence, I take it that your answer is no. Which is good.
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
"I often enough extract urls from links" - if you mean via the "copy link address" command then you pasted it and it'll be displayed fully.
Hence it's good when the program doesn't mangle it. Which has been my point all along.
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
"when I need to go to a slightly different destination than the url" - then I assume the protocol is not important, or are you really in need of pursuing the protocol to go to a sightly different page?
A case in point:
http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/
ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/Is the protocol not important there? Absolutely everything is important. Above you said "I haven't even noticed the http:// part is trimmed from the floating status bar, when a link leads to a different protocol like a https:// or ftp:// URL it's shown though". Thus the protocol evidently *is* important. If https, ftp, gopher, etc. must be shown, then there's no justification to remove http either, right?
If you still think that mangling of the urls is justified, then you need to also think exactly how far it is justified, because obviously there's a limit. At least you would notice for example when the address field and status bar were entirely removed, right? So, if a little mangling is okay, think further, how far would you allow it. As for me, I allow no mangling at all. The program must display everything faithfully. There's no reason for it not to.
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serious last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
You can check and edit the URL string easily with F8
and previously I could check it easily without doing anything if I wished so.
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
the protocol is not important
It is for me at work. Long story short, we have same addresses running on http or https (eg. depending on host entry to skip the ssl-offloading load balancer) so going to a url without a protocol will (in my chrome experience) in 90% of the time give you exactly the wrong one from the history. Seeing the full url is way easier for debugging and selecting the right one from the address bar autocomplete dropdown.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
My question was if you are able to defend any mangling of the url on the status bar
There's no mangling, as I said http:// is hidden but all the others are kept so there's your differentiation. The rest of the URL string is intact in the status bar.
Originally posted by ersi:
If you still think that mangling of the urls is justified, then you need to also think exactly how far it is justified, because obviously there's a limit. At least you would notice for example when the address field and status bar were entirely removed, right? So, if a little mangling is okay, think further, how far would you allow it. As for me, I allow no mangling at all.
The problem with the address field being ENTIRELY removed is that there would be no way to go to any URL and the security information would have to lie elsewhere. But look, this hypothesis you're talking about has nothing to do with the discussion here: URL string trimming.
Originally posted by ersi:
The program must display everything faithfully. There's no reason for it not to.
It does, in the status bar no protocol = http, https:// = https://, and so on. In the address field you've got security information and the full URL with F8.
The reason is readability of the main domain...Originally posted by ersi:
A case in point:
http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/
ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/Originally posted by serious:
It is for me at work. Long story short, we have same addresses running on http or https (eg. depending on host entry to skip the ssl-offloading load balancer) so going to a url without a protocol will (in my chrome experience) in 90% of the time give you exactly the wrong one from the history.
Well guys you aways come up with the most obscure examples that regular users will never come to experience or that doesn't make any difference (like the Opera FTP or HTTP pages)... "The company I work on have broken their own intranet/website." kind of examples...
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serious last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
regular users
well, that's a thing of definition ... considering opera is a classic power-user app so go figure
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
that doesn't make any difference (like the Opera FTP or HTTP pages)
only in that case, if you access a server that does not only serve static content but runs scripts the difference is quite huge (accessing the file vs executing it)
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
"The company I work on have broken their own intranet/website."
its not broken, but I am working as a tester and need to poke around in the guts of it all here and there.
Edit: anyhow, all we are asking for is to provide the same option that Op12 had: a checkbox that lets you toggle to show the abbreviated or full url by default (or to make it fully styleable by the skin which would be even more awesome)
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
...this hypothesis you're talking about has nothing to do with the discussion here: URL string trimming.
Let's call it trimming then. The change of name doesn't change anything in my arguments against it. What you call trimming is a fact, not a hypothesis. Surely *you* are not talking hypothetically...
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Originally posted by ersi:
The program must display everything faithfully...
It does, in the status bar no protocol = http, https:// = https://, and so on. In the address field you've got security information and the full URL with F8.
The reason is readability of the main domain...The reason is not only flimsy, but also wrong. If the protocol name takes away readability from the domain name, is it just http that does so? Not at all. So, all protocols are equal here.
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Well guys you aways come up with the most obscure examples that regular users will never come to experience or that doesn't make any difference (like the Opera FTP or HTTP pages)... "The company I work on have broken their own intranet/website." kind of examples...
Looks like you have no concept of internet as a tool - a major part of it being intranet when in work environment. In both nets, a browser is a tool that must work or another tool will be chosen, plain and simple. It would also do good to you to have a concept of web-developing or office work done for a living. These are serious concepts for you to get a grasp of. When you look around even in these forums, you'll see there's nothing obscure about these things.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
My question was not silly. You can check and edit the URL string easily with F8.
Indeed, it was more than silly. Silly would be to suggest one write an extension to display a full addressbar underneath the addressbar. Suggesting one press F8 constantly is beyond silly. It fits a pattern, of course.
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
or are you really in need of pursuing the protocol to go to a sightly different page?
It's not like this came up recently or anything.
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/109458842?startidx=200#comment112867522
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/109458842?startidx=200#comment112870972
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/109458842?startidx=200#comment112875252
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/109458842?startidx=200#comment112884802
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/109458842?startidx=250#comment112899952I've already typed a different address from the addressbar while I was on one of the opera:// pages, only to end up on opera://whatever.com doesn't exist. Hiding the protocol is broken. Hard-coded text colors are broken. Hiding the query string and hash makes the browser appear broken in many circumstances because it's not clear that a different page is actually being loaded, nor that jumping will occur due to the presence of a hash. And in any case, having to press keys constantly on a device meant for automation of meaningless tasks is broken.
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
The problem with the address field being ENTIRELY removed is that there would be no way to go to any URL and the security information would have to lie elsewhere. But look, this hypothesis you're talking about has nothing to do with the discussion here: URL string trimming.
Sure there is. Just press F2, or change how F8 works. The Ctrl+F dialog might serve as an example.
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Well guys you aways come up with the most obscure examples that regular users will never come to experience or that doesn't make any difference (like the Opera FTP or HTTP pages)... "The company I work on have broken their own intranet/website." kind of examples...
It's not broken. But even if it were, you keep claiming Blink is so much better than Presto in the website compatibility department. Why would you want to take away part of that alleged advantage?
Originally posted by serious:
Edit: anyhow, all we are asking for is to provide the same option that Op12 had: a checkbox that lets you toggle to show the abbreviated or full url by default (or to make it fully styleable by the skin which would be even more awesome)
Not me, I want more.
Like I keep saying, the hard-coded text color is a broken disaster, and a shining example of the very worst kind of UX: that which doesn't take the user into account, but only some designer's personal preferences. -
serious last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Not me, I want more.
as I said ...
Originally posted by serious:
(or to make it fully styleable by the skin which would be even more awesome)
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by serious:
as I said ...
Originally posted by serious:
(or to make it fully styleable by the skin which would be even more awesome)
Sure, but I'd already be satisfied with just the appropriate text color taken from the OS, just so it wouldn't be broken. Most important, a non-broken implementation shouldn't require any action on my end at all. I'm incredibly patient with Opera, but some random Firefox user checking it out will not be. They'll just see it doesn't even integrate with their dark color scheme and Opera will be gone as quickly as it came.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Just press F2
He meant to ask what I'd think if there wasn't a address field anywhere like as if that was just one higher level of URL trimming which is not, which is why I answered the way I did... (And because there's no F2 in Opera anymore.)
Originally posted by ersi:
If the protocol name takes away readability from the domain name, is it just http that does so? Not at all. So, all protocols are equal here.
You're mixing two things (having the full URL visible 100% of the time or trimmed, and, checking the target of a link).
Originally posted by serious:
Edit: anyhow, all we are asking for is to provide the same option that Op12 had: a checkbox that lets you toggle to show the abbreviated or full url by default (or to make it fully styleable by the skin which would be even more awesome)
Well it was pretty much confirmed by Blazej that the option is coming.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
You're mixing two things (having the full URL visible 100% of the time or trimmed, and, checking the target of a link).
No, I'm not mixing them. The trend of trimming urls in the address field makes you think that address field is as if somehow not for checking the target of your current webpage, but alas, address field is also for that, among other things. Think for a moment: Having the url visible 100% of the time *for what reason*? Checking the address of course. What else?
Address field always was exactly for checking of the current address, i.e. the target of the current webpage, until the trimming began. There's no reason for trimming to be there at all, it certainly should not be forced upon people, the way it is right now in Chropera.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Well it was pretty much confirmed by Blazej that the option is coming.
Great news! :cheers:
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Well it was pretty much confirmed by Blazej that the option is coming.
Great news! :cheers:
Wait for half a year for it to materialise too, like people do with bookmarks
Seriously, now that they are killing the entire community, the message of the company is clear: Get lost. We need users, not fans http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/important-announcement-about-your-my-opera-account
What kind of users will a company have who buried their own fan base?
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
Wait for half a year for it to materialise too, like people do with bookmarks
As long as it's there when Linux support materializes in two years.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by ersi:
Wait for half a year for it to materialise too, like people do with bookmarks
As long as it's there when Linux support materializes in two years.
That's early.
I'd say Linux version will be there in three years, but equally likely the company will be bust or bought up by then
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
That's early.
What can I say; I'm an optimist.
The other day I compiled Servo. I wonder if it'll end up replacing Gecko.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
Think for a moment: Having the url visible 100% of the time *for what reason*? Checking the address of course. What else?
Checking the page security more easily for example...
Originally posted by ersi:
What kind of users will a company have who buried their own fan base?
They're clearly aiming for what every company aims right? Bankruptcy!
Common, don't be a troll, only the social features were discontinued, the forums and official blogs will be moved to opera.com so the fanbase can continue giving feedback, getting help and interacting normally.
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Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Common, don't be a troll, only the social features were discontinued, the forums and official blogs will be moved to opera.com so the fanbase can continue giving feedback, getting help and interacting normally.
First "only the browser" and now "only the social features, forums, and blogs". That's all "nothing". "Get over it", right?
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
They're clearly aiming for what every company aims right? Bankruptcy!
Okay, I'll let you have the last word
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serious last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Checking the page security more easily for example...
why not both? In Op12 I have the page security indicator (just smaller, but it still gives color indication) and the full url... Also aren't users trained to ignore all SSL warnings anyhow?
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by serious:
why not both? In Op12 I have the page security indicator (just smaller, but it still gives color indication) and the full url...
Agreed, I fail to see how having some text to fill up the seemingly useless white void* distracts you from the big security indicator button. It's quite a bit clearer than the little lock in Firefox and it doesn't have anything to do with hiding either the protocol or the query string.
* A void because addresses are rather small when they're brutally mutilated; white because of the hard-coded gray text.
