Opera 17 - bookmarks and other troubles
-
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by sdhampton:
But quick access bar only shows a few button
I had 1,534 bookmarks at the last count — all of them fit on the QAB with 12 folders and 2 frequently used bookmarks (Home page, and opera:flags).
Originally posted by sdhampton:
I've just done a search for "Quick Access Bar" in both Google and Opera's help.
But why didn't you search the forum as suggested?
With a little reading of these forums, you would soon realise that Opera 17 is an unfinished product with lots of experimental features disabled by default.
Keep using an older version of Opera 12.16 or 11.64 until Opera Next is ready for real work. A Bookmarks menu and Opera Link are the least of your worries, but they will come in due course.
-
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by scratchspace:
I have no patience for trolls or whiners who misstate things, but it needs to be said that the injunction to "search the forum" relies, in the case of Opera 15/16/17, on a false premise, and consequently that injunction's validity is seriously compromised. The premise on which the validity of an injunction to "search the forum" rests is that the basic, essential information that applies to a product (Opera 17, in this case) exists in a coherent form and is easily accessed.
+1
The Opera 17/18/19 help says nothing about the QAB but just has some lame text about converting bookmarks to speed dial—the opposite of what anybody wants.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by scratchspace:
Originally posted by Pesala:
But why didn't you search the forum . . .?
I have no patience for trolls or whiners who misstate things, but it needs to be said that the injunction to "search the forum" relies, in the case of Opera 15/16/17, on a false premise, and consequently that injunction's validity is seriously compromised. The premise on which the validity of an injunction to "search the forum" rests is that the basic, essential information that applies to a product (Opera 17, in this case) exists in a coherent form and is easily accessed. In other words, users should not have to resort to searching on a forum in order to obtain basic, essential information about a product, especially when that product is going through a period of radical transformation, as is the case here. Yet, they do have to resort to this in the case of Opera 15/16/17, because Opera ASA and those whom it has authorized to act on its behalf have chosen not to make this basic, essential information available and easily accessible. And that is lame.
I have to agree with Pesala in this case. The questions being asked have been answered countless times over the past several weeks. Searching the forum rather than doing a Google search would have revealed the relevant information. If you disagree, then why didn't you provide the links and the information being sought by the OP? I suppose "canned" responses could be prepared so that when a new poster asks these typical questions, a "canned, prepared answer" could be pasted as a reply. I don't particularly want to do this but perhaps you or someone else will take it upon himself to do it.
Bottom line for me is simply this: the new browser (whatever version it is) is still being developed. It can in no wise match the feature complete Presto version 12 and users need to understand this. And understanding this can save a lot of headaches by simply sticking with the older version and keeping an eye on the development of the newer version until such time as it is deemed "ready" by the user.
-
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by leushino:
Bottom line for me is simply this: the new browser (whatever version it is) is still being developed. It can in no wise match the feature complete Presto version 12 and users need to understand this. And understanding this can save a lot of headaches by simply sticking with the older version and keeping an eye on the development of the newer version until such time as it is deemed "ready" by the user.
But where is it mentioned on the Opera site so users can understand? This understanding doesn't magically occur in a vacuum, hence what scratchspace wrote.
-
berng last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by leushino:
Bottom line for me is simply this: the new browser (whatever version it is) is still being developed. It can in no wise match the feature complete Presto version 12 and users need to understand this. And understanding this can save a lot of headaches by simply sticking with the older version and keeping an eye on the development of the newer version until such time as it is deemed "ready" by the user.
But where is it mentioned on the Opera site so users can understand? This understanding doesn't magically occur in a vacuum, hence what scratchspace wrote.
I agree.
Opera just won a significant MAC award. But how many MAC people who consequently try Opera will drop it when they don't see that bookmarks are supported using the QAB?
-
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
This understanding doesn't magically occur in a vacuum, hence what scratchspace wrote.
Help documentation has always trailed behind development and probably always will. That's why we need a forum. So, having searched help, then Google and still not finding what one wants, people should search these forums for "Bookmarks" or "Quick Access Bar."
Try it, see how many threads you find. Far from being a vacuum, there is a wealth of information that would be far easier to find if not for all the rant threads.
Originally posted by xyzzy80:
Sorry for the rant, but Jesus, that 5 minutes of Opera 17 were really shocking to me.
After ten or fifteen minutes of searching and reading, if someone is still lost, then they should post, saying which threads they found, what they tried, which version they're using, and what they're trying to accomplish. By then, they will at least know something, and we won't be repeating ourselves quite so much.
Just leave out the whining, and everyone will find the help they need quickly, without any negativity.
4. Be specific and to the point. Lengthy rants can be a pain to read, and so the chances of a useful reply are drastically reduced. Remember, your audience is comprised of other Opera users who help you in their own free time. Keep it brief, and focus on the actual topic. Use paragraph and bulleted lists to make it easier to read.
-
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by scratchspace:
In other words, the absence of this sort of information is an element of their Blink PR campaign strategy.
It's not. It's an inevitable consequence of their fast development strategy. It is barely feasible to write documentation for features that are not yet fully developed. I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories about Opera Blink. They have chosen a new route, and are working at full speed to make Opera Blink a viable alternative to Chrome and all the other browsers out there. As to whether it will ever be a substitute for Opera 11.64, I live in hope, but I am a realist — I may never upgrade.
Writing sticky threads for this forum is something that could be done, but as you know, when angry users join the forum just to rant or complain, they don't read the sticky threads either. You could PM one of the mods to see if they think it's worth doing.
Searching the forum won't fix all problems, but it's a good place to start, and strongly recommended as Rule #1.
-
frenzie last edited by
I agree with Pesala about what constitutes proper (forum) etiquette. However, it makes me wonder how many users simply left without ever looking at the forums.
-
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
You could PM one of the mods to see if they think it's worth doing.
I have sent a PM to the Community Manager.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
Originally posted by Pesala:
You could PM one of the mods to see if they think it's worth doing.
I have sent a PM to the Community Manager.
I see two possible options:
1. Some sticky threads will be deemed "important" and carried over to the new forum.
2. The new forum will be a completely fresh start with absolutely no material from here.In the current situation it's most unlikely that mods care enough to make this forum serve newcomers properly. Everything is on hold. All forum members have "an important announcement" hanging over their screens.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by scratchspace:
We're all guilty of being a bit careless in our choice of words at some time or another, so I'm not intending to hold you to an unrealistic standard here, but
But then you go on just the same.... and on... and on. Of course you admit that "we're all guilty of being A BIT CARELESS in our choice of words at some time or other" and since that is an inclusive statement that somehow let's you off the hook since you've included yourself in that statement. But the truth is, you never post apologies or retractions and that leads me to believe that your declaration above has a certain hollow ring to it.
Well.. I STILL agree with Pesala's original post and for the reasons I previously gave IN SPITE of your lengthy, correcting post. In other words: all those carefully worded sentences of yours fail to convince me otherwise.
-
rlwieneke last edited byThe questions being asked have been answered countless times over the past several weeks.
And as new users such as myself and others encounter the same problems and come to these forums, the same questions will continue to be asked over and over again. In the time the people with the knowledge post: "instructions to search before asking questions", they could simply post the answer to the question as leushino did and 98% of this string would have been eliminated and people could have productively moved on. If Pesala had simply answered the question on the second post, xyzzy80 may have thanked him in an additional post and this entire string would have consisted of three posts: the question, the answer, a thank you. But instead there are 48 posts on this string, 98% of which are arguing over protocol and have nothing to do with the topic. If I in the future come across a newbie asking this same question, I will copy and paste leushino's answer and get the newbie on his way. If some of you don't like this then an administrator should delete all the duplicate strings on this forum regarding this topic so there is only one string regarding this topic and doing a search for "bookmarks" would result in only the one result which all future newbies could easily find which would answer their question.
-
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by rlwieneke:
I will copy and paste leushino's answer and get the newbie on his way.
You will soon tire of it, but helpful users are always welcome.
The mods used to lock duplicate threads and rants, but nowadays there are just too many such threads and not enough mods.
-
Deleted User last edited by
No, your post is made to prove that you are always right. Your arrogance shows through loud and clear in the way in which you treat other posters with whom you disagree. I believe you know far less about these things and are only involved in the discussions because you enjoy reading your cleverly crafted posts ( as noted in the number you edit). The reason for your interest in the discussions is not so much about Opera as it is about you. There is a fundamental difference between us to which I doubt you would ever admit. Whereas I am aware that I am often wrong and sometimes humbly apologize, you would never admit to such. Anyway, I'm placing you on my ignore list. It's better, at least for me, that we no longer interact with one another. Good-bye.
-
bosco30 last edited by
The real source of discord in this forum is the inexplicable decision of Opera management to present what are essentially beta versions of Opera (15-17) as a final product. People download what appears to be just an updated Opera without any warning that it is really a beta version in rapid transition. Long time users who become disoriented looking for the usual features come to this forum to vent their frustration and confusion in the only place available. A simple explanation by management somewhere along the download and installation process would avoid most of these kinds of posts. The annoyance expressed at posters is misdirected. It should be aimed at management for horribly botching the roll out process of their new product.
-
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by bosco30:
The annoyance expressed at posters is misdirected
The annoyance directed at management is misdirected. This is a user2user forum to get help with using Opera. Just use an earlier version if you're not ready to upgrade yet.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by bosco30:
The annoyance expressed at posters is misdirected. It should be aimed at management for horribly botching the roll out process of their new product.
But that's just it - management did not botch the roll out process. I'll grant they could have better informed the users regarding what was being rolled out as well as advising them regarding whether to upgrade or not. But as Pesala has advised, it would probably be better if you simply remained with an earlier version until the new browser meets your needs. There's no reason to attack Opera management or the developers. There's too much of that ridiculous behavior going on in the forums by some bad actors. It's not good.
-
otleybrock last edited by
I've just read this thread from start to finish and found it a very depressing experience. Like others I have just installed Opera 17 and wondered what had happened to bookmarks. Having tried the help page, it does not tell me why there are no bookmarks but just that I can import them into Speed Dial. I tried that and confirmed to myself what I had suspected, that it was not an appropriate replacement.
So I searched on Google and this thread came out as the top response, so it is the natural one to follow. Unfortunately what I found, instead of a succinct discussion of the issue and a clear reply is a long dialogue between multiple parties seemingly more intent on picking points out of each other than addressing the question being asked.
As a loyal Opera user since v3 I have put up with the foibles and stayed the path, but right now I am uncertain, as much because of the nature of what I have read as because of the specific failings of v17. Remember, this is the thread that many people with this challenge will be coming to.
Having read the thread all the way through, I think I understand the position but I do have to say Opera has not made it easy.
For example various entries and links make it clear that Opera 17 is still a work in progress, but go to opera.com and you are taken to downloads for Opera 17, no mention anywhere that this is other than a full release product, no mention of bookmarks and no mention that Opera 12 is still available (until you go off into help). Then if you look for bookmarks in help you get the information mentioned above.
As I said, this thread does have buried within it a lot of information about the situation, various options that are available at the moment (Speed Dial & import, Quick Access Bar) plus that Opera have recognised the error and will be providing bookmarks again, at some unspecified point in the future.
I would like to suggest (assuming it can be done) that, given this thread is #1 on Google, it would be really helpful if a succinct but complete summary could be made and pinned at the top of the thread, including an indication of when we might hope to see bookmarks back. This would save a lot of people like myself having to read through the whole thing and see some exchanges which don't help improve Opera's image as a good alternative to the "big boys".
For now I'll be deinstalling 17 and I guess I'll have to work with Firefox to be able to use Evernote web clipping, until Opera gets fixed. -
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by otleybrock:
I would like to suggest (assuming it can be done) that, given this thread is #1 on Google, it would be really helpful if a succinct but complete summary could be made and pinned at the top of the thread, including an indication of when we might hope to see bookmarks back.
This cannot be done for several reasons. First, naturally pretty much everyone has been asking all along if/when bookmarks return (just go take a look at the devs blog). The answers from the devs are various forms of diversion only, beginning with "Ctrl+Z of Ctrl+D" (implying copy-paste implementation of the bookmarks system in Presto, but not saying when) on to "we have something better in mind" on to "we are not giving any details". This applies to all features, not only bookmarks. So, it's been tried.
Second, Google is not making this easy. Different people formulate their problem differently, and different parts of the world get different results. For example, when I search "Opera bookmarks" on Google, the first result is the help page for v.12.10, not this thread. The second result is this thread: BOOKMARKS in Opera 16? - I use 5,000 of them! and the first result outside Opera's websites is Opera 17 Next Is Here, Bookmarks Bar and Sync Still Missing. Looks like the world is already getting to know Opera as the bookmarkless browser. Such a shame, but who to blame?
If you want a succinct summary of the problem/solutions in this thread, then go ahead and do it for this thread. Personally for me, the best solution is to remain with Presto until migration to other programs is complete. This is probably the most repeated suggestion in this thread and others, so why repeat it more? Oh, but I just repeated it...
-
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
Second, Google is not making this easy. Different people formulate their problem differently, and different parts of the world get different results. For example, when I search "Opera bookmarks" on Google, the first result is the help page for v.12.10, not this thread. The second result is this thread: BOOKMARKS in Opera 16? - I use 5,000 of them! and the first result outside Opera's websites is Opera 17 Next Is Here, Bookmarks Bar and Sync Still Missing. Looks like the world is already getting to know Opera as the bookmarkless browser. Such a shame, but who to blame?
Same here.
