Why are people so emotional about browsers?
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kipperchau Banned last edited by leocg
I don't know, everyone is just saying that Opera has done some shady business, without providing any examples (not even one), no proofs, which is just not convincing.
Opera being acquired by a Chinese company isn't a big deal either, since Opera is still based in Norway, GDPR/Privacy laws still apply.
And some say Opera partnered with a lot of companies like Amazon, and their partners directly access Opera's users' data? This is a complete nonsense.
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canadagoose4everreturns last edited by@lord-of-the-lost I doubt many people are "keen to find out what is bad about the browsers they're not using." There are always going to be some people in forums that are fanboys of certain browsers and will rag on others for whatever reason but you have to bear in mind that most people never join forums and don't care one way or the other. Use whatever browser you want and leave it at that. There is no riddle waiting to be solved and there is no mystery here. Most people just don't care - period. I'm one of those, albeit I've been with Opera for so many years that I still enjoy reading the forum news and comments and yet I no longer use Opera as my daily browser. I cannot think of a single person in my extended family (both sides) that makes an issue about the browser he/she uses and they range from Google Chrome to MS Edge and over to Safari. Most of them don't even care about privacy (with one exception). You're projecting when you imply that large numbers of people care about their browsers - they don't.
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A Former User last edited by
@canadagoose4everreturns True, I didn't mean these folks that go by the browser that comes preinstalled on their devices or install Chrome because everybody else does.
I'm thinking of those who prefer what may be called an "alternative" browser. And I especially see that Brave or Firefox enthusiasts and to a lesser degree Vivaldi are among those I see in the camp of those, that I've tried to describe. All in all, except for Firefox, these are only so few, as these browsers aren't used by anyone, really, under the radar of any statistics.
So, let's use the browser that's suits us best. -
canadagoose4everreturns last edited by
@lord-of-the-lost Thanks for clarifying.
Everything I'm writing here is a pure guess since I have no idea why people use one browser over another and then badmouth the other. It seems to me that the people who choose Vivaldi want a browser suite (email, calendar, RSS feed, browser) and one that they can endlessly customize. There is no other browser quite like it and it seems to be the darling of a small niche (aka: nerdy) group for the most part. Up until Opera One, I loved Opera's aesthetics (its GUI) and its heritage (I had used it from 2000 onward until it dumped Presto and many of its developers left). I'm not a huge fan of Opera One as you can tell. Brave jumped on the privacy and ad-blocking wagon early on and thereby won over a lot of users disenchanted with Google Chrome's lack of privacy (the cryto currency stuff and the BAT rewards are something many just turn off). It's my belief that all of these browsers will likely remain single digit in the overall use worldwide. As for Firefox, it's the only one that dares to remain outside the Chromium coral and has the Netscape heritage so there are many faithful that continue with it as an outlier, a renegade and our only hope to withstand a monopoly. But sadly it is a dying breed as fewer and fewer developers code for it. It remains my browser of choice simply because I started with Netscape 3.0 Gold and continued with it until I discovered Opera, then used both. Going forward, Chrome and Edge will dominate in the Windows OS and Safari will remain firmly as the Mac standard. This is all guess-work on my part and truth be told, I just don't care one way or the other. I'm happy with Firefox so I'll remain with it. -
DarthGTB last edited by
@lord-of-the-lost, the thing is, people use browsers in their daily routine. If something breaks their routine, it's immediately felt by these people. The majority of people who use a browser though, don't care about these changes. They will only care about new bugs, which Opera One shipped with plenty. It seems to be slowly stabilizing now (current version, 105 as of now, is what I would expect of an actual stable release. This should have been the version when they did the rebranding)
Why Opera users are so worked up about stuff? Opera in special has always been the underdog alternative to the big browsers. It naturally attracted people who hate specific browsers.
That being said, there are also people out there who just want to suggest an alternative they found to be appealing to them for any reason. I'm currently moving to Vivaldi right now to give it a shot for the following reasons, which may not appeal to everybody:
- I didn't know until last week that people behind Vivaldi worked at Opera in the past, so I hoped for similar features and was not disappointed
- I for one don't care it is not 100% open source
- It is actually modular like the original Opera used to be (as in, you can place tab bar, address bar, etc. wherever you want, add or remove buttons to them wherever you want. It's basically the same UI building experience from the original Opera)
- It has a more sober UI
- It has a more customizable Speed Dial (as in you can change tile size and have folders inside folders)
- It can also pop out videos
- It can also group tabs (and it provides multiple options of how it's displayed)
- I didn't test the sidebar yet, but it not being the way I want isn't a deal breaker anymore. I've been living without a sidebar for a while now in Opera because it can't deliver what I want, which is the ability to add unlimited pages to it like Edge and Yandex do
- It is possible to set pages to open as an app and pin them to the taskbar. This is great for web apps like Outlook, Spotify, WhatsApp, Google Keep, etc. I've been using Edge for this feature for a while and now I'll finally be able to use only one browser for all my daily routine (I can't use Chrome and Firefox for my routine because I'm a programmer and use them to test my software. So browsing data and extensions are fully zeroed all the time in those two)
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A Former User last edited by
@darthgtb Oh, sounds great. Vivaldi is a really decent browser. I‘ve used it for more than four years. I really liked the way it works. But I‘ve gone the other way around.
Vivaldi IMHO is overly complex, not to say complicated, for most people, AKA me at least. They‘ve added feature after feature like mail and calendar e.g., that I don’t need. I wished they had concentrated on polishing the browser instead. I wasn‘t happy with updates, which often were buggy ( you‘ll still read lots of complaints in their forums). And however this happened, but Vivaldi didn‘t play nice with my ISP, leading to several hiccups, affecting the whole wireless network in my home.I myself found Opera‘s sidebar more pleasing, especially as you could adjust it’s width far more than in Vivaldi. And I found myself custemizing Vivaldi in a way resembling Opera out of the box.
Still I can see the appeal of it, but for me and my work, Vivaldi is kind of too unstable. But I really appreciate their work, and I believe that they are the only browser company, that have not been found doing anything shady. -
DarthGTB last edited by
@lord-of-the-lost makes sense. And in a way, the extra unnecessary features also kinda reflects what the original Opera looked like. It even had a built in torrent client lol which was the one torrent client I used back then. I too feel like a browser should at least do the browsing well and have a nice and customizable interface. Everything else, down to ad and tracker blocking is extension territory. Still, the features I listed are usually better implemented natively than any extensions I could find (except for ad blocking. Extensions usually perform better). I even considered developing a speed dial myself because none in the stores felt like a good alternative for using in a more bare bones browser, but I'll give Vivaldi's take on it a go first
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TravelTales last edited by
It's funny how polarizing they can be. I used Firefox for years but recently switched to Chrome simply because so many sites seem optimized for it. I do miss some of Firefox's customization options though. Vivaldi definitely seems more customizable but like you both said, maybe a bit too complex. What are your thoughts on Microsoft Edge? I know a lot of people dismiss it but the new version based on Chromium seems decent. Wondering if either of you have tried it out at all recently. Overall it seems the best browser is the one that just works well for your needs, without too much hassle.
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A Former User last edited by
@traveltales Yes, very astonishing, really. I‘ve tried Edge by the way. I like some features of it very much, especially its implementation of PWA, which is totally lacking in Opera.
Otherwise I found it rather crowded with its Microsoft features and its not too decent effort to make you use it as default.
If you don’t bother these things, you‘ll be ok with it. I myself find Opera more appealing, and although with ads too, not that much aggressive.
Anyway, if you're lucky with your actual browser, there‘s no need to change, let alone with others telling yo to do so. And you might wish to try out others whenever you like. -
DarthGTB last edited by
@traveltales honestly, Edge has come a long way. It works pretty well and is reliable. Only real reason I didn't switch to it is the lack of a decent Speed Dial extension. There are many extensions out there but none fit my needs, or are way too complex to operate, while Opera, Yandex and Vivaldi native solutions work best.
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TravelTales last edited by
@A Former User said in Why are people so emotional about browsers?:
Yes, very astonishing, really. I‘ve tried Edge by the way. I like some features of it very much, especially its implementation of PWA, which is totally lacking in Opera.
Otherwise I found it rather crowded with its Microsoft features and its not too decent effort to make you use it as default.
If you don’t bother these things, you‘ll be ok with it. I myself find Opera more appealing, and although with ads too, not that much aggressive.
Anyway, if you're lucky with your actual browser, there‘s no need to change, let alone with others telling yo to do so. And you might wish to try out others whenever you like.You make a good point that it can feel a bit crowded with Microsoft stuff. I'll probably stick with Chrome for now since most sites seem to work best with it, but I appreciate you taking the time to discuss the different options. Might have to revisit Opera at some point to check out those PWAs.
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TravelTales last edited by
@darthgtb said in Why are people so emotional about browsers?:
@traveltales honestly, Edge has come a long way. It works pretty well and is reliable. Only real reason I didn't switch to it is the lack of a decent Speed Dial extension. There are many extensions out there but none fit my needs, or are way too complex to operate, while Opera, Yandex and Vivaldi native solutions work best.
That's good to know about Edge's speed dial situation. native implementations definitely tend to be simpler. Might have to give it another look sometime once they've had a chance to build out more features. For now Chrome's working okay for my needs. Thanks for the input!
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canadagoose4everreturns last edited by
@traveltales All of these chromium browsers are pretty much the same with a little difference in window dressing. You can load extensions from the Chrome store and build whatever it is that you say you "need" so I'm at a loss why the hesitation to use a particular browser. You can have multiple browsers so why not download the ones in which you're interested and run with each one individually for a week to get a feel for the browser you're most comfortable with and then go with it. The browser is simply a program to get you to where you want to go for business or pleasure. Most users do not want something as customizable as Vivaldi simply because they can't be bothered playing around with the browser. Vivaldi is essentially a "geeky" browser and that is why its numbers will always be one-digit. Opera should never have changed to Opera One and because of its association with China (unfair but nevertheless true) it will always remain far behind the others. Your viable choices are: Google Chrome, Edge, Firefox and Brave (with Safari on the Mac) on Windows. And that's the long and short of it.
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Phil15world988 last edited by@canadagoose4everreturns I love Opera one I don't mind it and I like Opera GX and Opera AI browser I just hope Opera AI browser will replace Chrome and YouTube I'm praying my message will approve I'm just praying for it
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A Former User last edited by
Let's face it: Opera is the only OS, rsp platform independent browser with recognizable market-share. (As Firefox comes with a lot of Linux distros, it's not really platform independent but the go-for browser there)
See the numbers then, for desktop worldwide:
The metrics also give 6,23% for the US and 5,06% for Europe. I suppose that Brave or Vivaldi hover around .5 and .1 %. So nothing to count on. Opera in some statistics is even above Firefox already, making it the 4th most used browser in the world.
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blackbird71 last edited byGiven that browsers are essentially just "tools" used to accomplish a goal - browsing on the web - it follows that some (but not all) users will place unique and great emphasis on how that 'tool' feels and works for them. Over time, those tool users develop certain workflows that a particular tool seems to match best, so brand-loyalty arises. When that product's updates come, especially those impacting a particular area of the tool's operation, users whose workflow has long integrated that area's functionality will often react either quite positively or negatively... hence the controversy that so often intrudes into the forums.
Users that don't care about particular functionality issues normally just use the tool provided as built-in on their computer or download whatever their friends tend to use, as long as it's easy and "just works" (ie: Explorer/Edge, Chrome and their vast usage numbers over the years).
In any case, users should employ whatever browser best suits their wants/needs and not be afraid to try other brands - especially to find out if there's better ways the user's particular browsing style and demands can be implemented. Personally, being of a technical nature, I want certain adjustability controls and have certain levels of privacy that I demand, so I tend to favor a particular brand of browser - but I have 6 others currently installed which I use from time to time, if only to stay abreast of unique developments.
All that said, you'll nevertheless find some users who, just like football fans, are rabid in their likes and dislikes of particular ones... which usually defies all logic to an outside observer.
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canadagoose4everreturns last edited by
@blackbird71 Well said, Blackbird. Very succinct and informative.
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A Former User last edited by
I always appreciate people telling me, what browser they like and why. I might wish to try them by myself.
But I don't like these kind of remarks about why it is an absolute this or that particular one. It's as if they weren't as convinced of the one they would promote, as they want to appear.
I'm using Opera at the moment, that's ok. But I also like Firefox for being Open Source, DuckDuckGo for privacy and Chrome/Safari for simply working out of the box. I used to use Vivaldi but it became to overwhelmingly complex for me. Opera for me is on the middleground for me with a clean interface, the features I use and with some decent privacy tools. -
canadagoose4everreturns last edited by leocg
@celticcross Good morning, Celticcross.
Everything I say is simply my opinion and not necessarily factual. It "seems to me" that we can easily become mislead by others commenting online. If you were to take the sum total of all the commenters here and on Vivaldi's forum (etc), and then compare that number with the billions of people online who never bother with forums or asking questions about browsers, I'm certain you'd discover that the number is exceedingly small. As I've mentioned many times now, most people who go online simply don't care about the browser they're using. My wife has a MacBook and a Surface and she uses Edge on her Surface and Safari on her Mac and that's the sum total of it. If I ask her why she doesn't try Brave or Opera or whatever, her eyes would glaze over (I'm being facetious here) and she'd ask me why bother when Safari and Edge work perfectly fine. She simply doesn't care. The sum total of what Blackbird said could be summed up in this: try several and find which browser(s) works best for what you need and then go with it (them). I think a better title for this thread would be: Why are "some" people so emotional about browsers. There are fanboys... evangelists... promoters... of certain browsers but as to why, that's a mystery to me. Really... who actually cares that much? I'll use my wife (since she's sitting right across from me right now on her MacBook) as an example. What is she doing? Shopping! She cares about shopping... not browsers. Safari gets her to where she wants to go - shopping for whatever (oh my aching wallet... haha). I'm only here out of boredom and for nostalgia's sake, having been a part-time Opera user from 2000 onward until the exodus of Jon and many of his loyal developers. Do I care enough to download Opera now and run with it? After checking out Opera One, I see no reason to switch. Currently I have Edge and Brave on my Surface and Safari on my MacBook and that's really it. Hey, just go with what floats your boat. You seem, from your posts, like a great guy who is genuinely interested in technology. Watch some YT videos and do a little research to set your mind at ease as to whlch browser will best fit your needs. -
canadagoose4everreturns last edited by
@canadagoose4everreturns I must be really bored but for what it's worth (not much, I suppose), let me expand before a certain somebody taps me to accompany her to the store(s). I'll use a few examples: shavers, toothbrushes and news channels. I have a bunch of electric shavers (two Norelcos, two Brauns and a Panasonic). Why so many? Well, some claim that they each cut a little differently and therefore you need to find the one that best adapts to your facial hair. Is this true? I don't really know or care that much. I have five shavers because I like shavers and I use them indiscriminately as the spirit moves me in the morning. Ha! But I'm on a shavers forum where men DO become quite emotional over their particular shaver brand to which they are loyal. Strange. I have two electric toothbrushes (Oral b io and a Sonicare) and the same can be said for those... loyal followers some of whom go on YT and diss the other brand for some strange reason. Does one actually clean better than the other? I don't know... I sort of doubt it. Why have two? I like them so I use one in the a.m. and one in the p.m. but in truth, I've no idea if one does a better job. Stick with me. News channels and/or podcasts is a bit more difficult given the undisputed fact that almost all news these days (and perhaps always) is little more than shilling for a particular ideological point of view and/or party. So... I navigate towards the news that meets my preconceived ideas of truth (and that is a tall order and one my dear wife often questions). So... what is truth? This is a question as old as the Bible (asked by a notorious governor long ago of a certain Someone who would change history forever). Indeed... in all of these examples (including the best browsers etc etc)... what is truth? I'm going to be a bit enigmatic here: truth is in a Person and not in these "things" including best browsers etc. And now... those searching eyes have discovered me at my computer and are rapidly approaching. I'm in trouble.
