Where do Opera 12.16 users go now Opera is dead?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by cooljoebay:

The fat lady sang. Now the OPERA IS OVER. All you boot lickers and optimists can take your foolish asses back to the closet. A new browser will eventually come around that intends to give everything that all the "players" won't. It won't be Opera.

Whatever. The inability to speak in sentences without profanity is sort of a give-away. :troll:

[frenzie]

frenzie last edited by

Originally posted by scratchspace:

But I don't understand this part of what you said: "How am I supposed to tell the difference between the five text documents I've got open? Wait, I know, there's the document title." The document titles are there (even in the thumbnail-based mode). What am I missing here?

Look at the bookcase on your side. (Well, I've got a bookcase on my side. Look at a bookcase.) Imagine if you had to tap each and every book to see what its title was! Instead of glancing over at it, spending a few milliseconds selecting the book, and consequently pulling it out directly, I'd be spending many seconds trying to figure out which book was which. Oh, but each book has a helpful icon. This one deals with language, and this other deals with history. No wait, that really doesn't help me much at all, for I've got many dozens of books in each category.

Originally posted by scratchspace:

Also, the practical advantage to an Opera-style list would seem to be limited to the ability to see whether you need to move forward or backward, and that ability may not actually save time. And even when it does, it typically wouldn't save more than a couple of seconds (though if you're doing this frequently I can appreciate that small benefit).

I've never claimed the Opera Ctrl-Tab switcher is feature complete. What I claim is that it's the only usable foundation to build a proper switcher. If I prefer the taskbar/tabbar over a task switcher, that switcher is broken.

[muggenschiss]

muggenschiss last edited by

I read many threads here and in other forums. Everywhere the majority ist complaining about missing features. What I can't understand are the people not only defending the new browser but even attacking old users for their complaints.

I discovererd in 97 Opera shortly after I started using the internet professionally. And I use it since then. Lived and used it through good and bad versions. But now it is time to say good bye. My bookmarks, all my saved sessions useless. No more easy opening of closed tabs, no more easy tabbing. Mouse gestures,...
Why shall I use a bad copy of already existing browsers?

Right now I'm switching through Firefox, Safari and now and then Opera Next hoping that some things missing will be back soon. But till now, it is just one big disappointment.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by muggenschiss:

I read many threads here and in other forums. Everywhere the majority ist complaining about missing features. What I can't understand are the people not only defending the new browser but even attacking old users for their complaints.

That's not entirely true. What IS happening in the forums IF you read them carefully, is that many of the "old" users are simply complaining that such and such a feature is missing when in fact there are often workarounds. And when informed of those workarounds they either disappear or they continue to argue about something else. In other words, they're not looking for answers or solutions but rather to simply complain. AND as we have a perfect example in this thread, frequently their complaint amounts to little more than the use of profanity. If you expect to be taken seriously, then you need to behave civilly. If there are missing features, ask politely about them and whether or not there are other ways to achieve what you were once able to do. And if there are no ways, then you should post in the proper forum (Opera Wish List) your request that those features be returned. Back in July there were many complaints about the new browser but over the past few months many of those complaints have been put to rest (not all.. but in time it is hoped that they will be).

[frenzie]

frenzie last edited by

I think two windows is already enough to make it an issue. For instance, I have the main Skype window and a Skype conversation window open. Which one's about 6 from the front and which one's about 6 from the back? I don't remember which is the last one I happened to have open a few hours ago.

But I would think it's fairly common to be writing one or more things with your reference materials open? Virtual desktops help a little, but they only go so far.

[j7nj7n]

j7nj7n last edited by

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Look at the bookcase on your side. (Well, I've got a bookcase on my side. Look at a bookcase.) Imagine if you had to tap each and every book to see what its title was! Instead of glancing over at it, spending a few milliseconds selecting the book, and consequently pulling it out directly, I'd be spending many seconds trying to figure out which book was which.

That is a good example. I've been in this situation "tapping" CD cases where I neglected to make a cover (with a spine). The problem here was that the CDs got worn, and the process was much slower than tapping or holding the Tab key.

Although I've never found the Windows Alt-Tab to be unbearably slow, when as long as the switching is fast and my 'visual memory' is not overwritten with blank screens or animations, I can cycle through the titles easy enough.

I feel there is a motion to render the window title obsolete (just like the Menu): Opium window does not show a title bar at the top anymore. Windows NT 6 taskbar buttons don't show the (begginings of) window titles. The new way might turn out to start relying on typographical shapes, enhanced with color, or something Metro-ish.

I completely agree with Frenzic about the XP appearance and its Start menu. :yes:

[frenzie]

frenzie last edited by

Originally posted by scratchspace:

Yes, certainly, though the number of open windows could still be rather small. In any event, you've caused me to think more about installing a third-party list-style application switcher, so thanks for that.

If you have an XP around you should try SmartTab.org. For Windows 7 I can't give any recommendations because simply put I don't care. On Linux I've actually contributed a tiny enhancement or two to fuzzy window switcher, and superswitcher is also worth a look.

Originally posted by j7nj7n:

Although I've never found the Windows Alt-Tab to be unbearably slow, when as long as the switching is fast and my 'visual memory' is not overwritten with blank screens or animations, I can cycle through the titles easy enough.

It's true, the Windows 3-style application switcher isn't horrible. A few years ago Ubuntu defaulted to Compiz with an application switcher that showed one at a time, so you'd have absolutely no idea where in the list you were or how many there were in total.

[biggerabalone]

biggerabalone last edited by

i'm still using the old opera. but i am concerned with how secure it is (since it is not being updated anymore). i've been trying firefox with addons to opera-ize it with varying success. using FVD speed dial helps for me. but i miss the tab vault (trying pocket and other inferior products, but can't find good replacement. plus, firefox is a little slow to start (likely because i've added too many extensions - my fault likely). i've never liked chrome, it slows down your computer's start up (adds startup entries so browser will start faster but computer will start slower ... that way it can claim startup is fastest, classic slight of hand). plus i've never liked the webkits numerous running processes - it's not very light on the system and hard to determine how much resources it uses because of them all ... something like 12 running (why? the old opera had one running process). my biggest problem is my system security. i use a browser protection software that `sandboxes' my browser (called spyshelter). it is superb. however, it has problems with webkit browsers ... in that it will not let them update. that leaves me with firefox and ie. i still haven't given up on the new opera webkit version but it has tough competition: comodo dragon and srware iron browsers (both using webkit and both without tracking and both offering different goodies to entice us). i've been trying them all. opera's advantage is its team: i believe they will progressively make their product better. but iron and comodo have more plug ins and and comodo likes to claim it is a security browser and safer (i does have a secure dns search etc). so to summarize, i'm still using the old opera (but i have every other browser on my windows 7 system also). but for now, it is standards complaint and fast and easy to use, and with spyshelter it is still secure even if it's not updated.

last note: on my linux system, i'm using seamonkey. it has integrated email built into it like the old opera. it is firefox related, so no webkit. and seems to work well. has some addons, but not as many. haven't tried it on windows though.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

i'm still using the old opera. but i am concerned with how secure it is (since it is not being updated anymore).

12.16 should still be secure. Opera has stated that they're still maintaining it for security should any exploits arise, but there are no currently-unpatched reports about 12.16 on vulnerability-report sites like Secunia.

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

i've never liked the webkits numerous running processes - it's not very light on the system and hard to determine how much resources it uses because of them all ... something like 12 running (why?)

The Webkit engine and its deriviatives, by design, open a new/added process for each extension and for each tab running in the browser. Among other things, it's supposed to keep a crash in an extension or tab from taking down the entire browser.

[treego]

treego last edited by

Go with Firefox with the following addons/extensions and you'll feel quite good if you're an avid Opera user from 12.16-and-prior days:
-Add to Search Bar
-All-in-One Sidebar
-Chatzilla (IRC chat)
-DoubleClick ContextMenu
-Email This! Bookmarklet Extension (GMail)
-Feedly Notifier (use this with RSS feeds via Feedly)
-NoScript
-Open Bookmarks in New Tab
-QuickNote
-Session Manager
-SettingSanity
-Tab Auto Reload
-Weather Watcher Live

[biggerabalone]

biggerabalone last edited by

Originally posted by blackbird71:

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

i'm still using the old opera. but i am concerned with how secure it is (since it is not being updated anymore).

12.16 should still be secure. Opera has stated that they're still maintaining it for security should any exploits arise, but there are no currently-unpatched reports about 12.16 on vulnerability-report sites like Secunia.

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

i've never liked the webkits numerous running processes - it's not very light on the system and hard to determine how much resources it uses because of them all ... something like 12 running (why?)

The Webkit engine and its deriviatives, by design, open a new/added process for each extension and for each tab running in the browser. Among other things, it's supposed to keep a crash in an extension or tab from taking down the entire browser.

when you close chrome, i have noted that some extensions/processes sometimes remain open. this adversely affects overall computer performance. not something i would recommend.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

...when you close chrome, i have noted that some extensions/processes sometimes remain open. this adversely affects overall computer performance. not something i would recommend.

I would agree... at least, if the processes don't close fairly quickly after shutting down the browser itself. Processes started in conjunction with an app should terminate with that app, apart from any minor latency due to housekeeping, etc.

[npublici]

npublici last edited by

I AM Uusing avant AND opera19,alternately.There are problems in each and advantages in each.Avant bookmarks is more pleasing to me at present.I wish I had software to link bookmarks to all my browsers. Better still, standalone bookmarks ,resident in my computer. which a call up button in the browser would show the bookmarks.I really would like colorizing of categories within bookmarks.When a browser balks,fails or is troublesome I use a different one. The only time I use MS7 browser is when I am forced to.

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Originally posted by npublici:

I AM Uusing avant AND opera19,alternately.There are problems in each and advantages in each.Avant bookmarks is more pleasing to me at present.I wish I had software to link bookmarks to all my browsers. Better still, standalone bookmarks ,resident in my computer. which a call up button in the browser would show the bookmarks.I really would like colorizing of categories within bookmarks.When a browser balks,fails or is troublesome I use a different one. The only time I use MS7 browser is when I am forced to.

+1. That's a truly interesting concept... actually, two of them. I currently use a local html homepage on my computer with hundreds of links embedded, but adding/altering them is a tedious process performed outside the browser - hardly a bookmarking tool, per se. But once they're in there, I've got them categorized in sections and even into submenu pages by topic, but colorizing would be great. What I have works nicely when used as the homepage in all my browser brands, but your ideas would greatly improve the useability by being able to write/save directly to something like it from within any browser. Now, if only a standard existed, and we could persuade browser makers to adopt it, and... oh well. Right now, it's tough enough to convince some makers of the true importance of bookmarks... :irked:

[minho]

minho last edited by

I will back to FF if chrpopera is still unusable.
otter browser (maybe) and qupzilla look good alternatives.

[awzx]

awzx last edited by

Switched to Firefox! Version 27 is lightning fast, even still with 10 addons that I have installed to bring in some of Opera's features plus add some new ones. Actually it's so fast that sometimes I even forget for a moment that this is Firefox and not Chromium...

[bullywug]

bullywug last edited by

I'm still using 12.6 while stuck in Windowsland, but plan to get a Mac soon and just use Safari. What really kills Opera 15 for me (in Windowsland) is that the keyboard cannot be customised. I can't stand windows standard keybindings; I need unix text editing bindings, etc. With Opera and cygwin I could live in Windowsland, doing most things in them, after having decided that Linux is dead. Not anymore, thanks to Opera being dead as well. I have to go for a Mac... only problem is the god-awful Touchpad on Apple laptops. I want my Trackpoint!

Oh good grief.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Where to go? What to do? Oh woe is me! Well, here's a thought. Download Opera 20 and experience a very excellent browser and while you're at it: stop your infernal whining.

[c0npaq]

c0npaq last edited by

PLEASE PEOPLE ... let's be honest: Opera beyond version 12 is a cheap google chrome ripoff mixed with firefox UI design elements. The people, like myself, who are 'whining' here do so because we are high profile, 24/7 users, web designers, programmers, basement dwellers and high-tech people who actually get some real work done because we use truly superior tools and methods to begin with ... like the old style Opera. We waste 30 minutes on hardcore customization once every 3 years and then save like 10-20 minutes every consecutive day in return. UNDERSTANDABLY, now we are intensely butthurt, because we got the choice: migrate to something that causes a considerable loss in productivity (like firefox - not the 'new' Opera - haha what a joke) or watch productivity slowly dwindle as more and more rough edges and corners will show up until the tool finally dies from lack of maintenance (what I prefer to do). Both are naturally ugly.

We, the whiners, are not the big, inept, zero-to-one-hour PC user majority that Opera chose to rather target now. We actually suffer, 10 or 20 times more than you may. But it is just the modern age ...

[lem729]

lem729 last edited by

Where to go? What to do? Oh woe is me! Well, here's a thought. Download Opera 20 and experience a very excellent browser and while you're at it: stop your infernal whining.

Absolutely right. Except, now it's Opera 22 for download.