Formatting on the Forums

ruario

ruario

It's all nice, but personally, I'd prefer that/if the basics would work as they should do

They do with the exception of "emphasis". Most of the other stuff that initially seems odd, makes sense if you read the syntax guide.

In any case, you can just write HTML, with the limitation that only a subset is made available, roughly the same tags you would get with Markdown, plus a few extra.

ruario

ruario

An example of a basic usage you claimed did not work was numbered lists but they work just fine

First
Second
Third

The problem seems to be that you left blank lines between items but the guide specifically tells you not to do this

If you put blank lines between items, you’ll get tags for the list item text.

A Former User

I had an impression that that was not "only emphasis". Maybe I'll revisit this thread from its beginning to refresh that "impression".
And to have it clear, this thread was started in order for other users to obtain basic knowledge how to make their contribution nice and tidy.

ruario

ruario

I had a quick scan of the earlier comments and they appear to be people not following the guide (e.g. new lines between list items) or an expectation that all HTML tags would work and all CSS.

Barring emphasis, the Markdown methods seem to work to, when written correctly. HTML works if you follow the rules about mixing and matching and understand that only a selection of tags (that roughly matches Markdown), is allowed.

ruario

ruario

How about a quick test to see what is really broken and what isn't? I'll use all of the features listed on the Markdown basics page.

Here my sample Markdown code:

Header 1
========

# Header 1

Header 2
--------

## Header 2

### Header 3

> This is a quote

> > This is a quote
> 
> This is a another quote, in reply

The last word of this sentence is *emphasized*.

The last word of this sentence is _emphasized_.

The last word of this sentence is **bolded**.

The last word of this sentence is __bolded__.

Unordered list with asterisk:

* Unordered list item
* Unordered list item
* Unordered list item

Unordered list with plus sign:

+ Unordered list item
+ Unordered list item
+ Unordered list item

Unordered list with hyphen (dash):

- Unordered list item
- Unordered list item
- Unordered list item

Ordered list:

1. First item in an ordered list
2. Second item in an ordered list
3. Third item in an ordered list

Ordered list with paragraph:

*   Unordered list item
    
    Second paragraph
    
*   Unordered list item

This is an [link to opera.com](http://www.opera.com/).

 This is an [link to opera.com with a title](http://www.opera.com/ "opera.com").

A link to [opera.com][1] and another to [Wikipedia][2]

[1]: http://www.opera.com/       "opera.com"
[2]: https://www.wikipedia.org/  "Wikipedia"

![alt text](https://forums.opera.com/themes/opera/design/static/css/img/opera-software-logo.png "Title")

![alt text][id]

[id]: https://forums.opera.com/themes/opera/design/static/css/img/opera-software-logo.png "Title"

Here is some inline code: `opera-developer`

Here is some code on a new line:

    $ whoami
    ruario

And this is how it outputs:

Header 1

Header 2

Header 3

This is a quote

This is a quote

This is a another quote, in reply

The last word of this sentence is emphasized.

The last word of this sentence is bolded.

Unordered list with asterisk:

Unordered list item
Unordered list item
Unordered list item

Unordered list with plus sign:

Unordered list item
Unordered list item
Unordered list item

Unordered list with hyphen (dash):

Unordered list item
Unordered list item
Unordered list item

Ordered list:

First item in an ordered list
Second item in an ordered list
Third item in an ordered list

Ordered list with paragraph:

Unordered list item

Second paragraph
Unordered list item

This is an link to opera.com.

This is an link to opera.com with a title.

A link to opera.com and another to Wikipedia

Here is some inline code: opera-developer

Here is some code on a new line:

$ whoami
ruario

ruario

ruario

So it would seem that emphasis and lists with paragraphs are broken. Everything else works as expected.

ruario

ruario

Let's try a similar test with HTML:

Firstly, here is the code I will be using:

<p>Let's try a similar test with HTML:

<h1>Header 1

<h2>Header 2

<h3>Header 3

<blockquote><p>This is a quote</p></blockquote>

<blockquote><blockquote><p>This is a quote</p></blockquote><p>This is a another quote, in reply</p></blockquote>

<p>The last word of this sentence is *emphasized*.

<p>The last word of this sentence is **bolded**.

<p>Unordered list:
<ul>
  <li>Unordered list item</li>
  <li>Unordered list item</li>
  <li>Unordered list item</li>
</ul>

<p>Ordered list:
<ol>
  <li>First item in an ordered list</li>
  <li>Second item in an ordered list</li>
  <li>Third item in an ordered list</li>
</ol>

<p>Ordered list with paragraph:

<ul>
  <li>Unordered list item<p>Second paragraph</p></li>
  <li>Unordered list item</li>
</ul>
  
<p>A link to [opera.com](http://www.opera.com/" title="opera.com) and another to [Wikipedia](https://www.wikipedia.org/" title="Wikipedia)

![](https://forums.opera.com/themes/opera/design/static/css/img/opera-software-logo.png)

<p>Here is some inline code: `opera-developer`

<p>Here is some code on a new line:</p>

`$ whoami
    ruario`

And this is how it outputs:

Header 1

Header 2

Header 3

<blockquote>This is a quote</blockquote>

<blockquote><blockquote>This is a quote</blockquote>This is a another quote, in reply</blockquote>

The last word of this sentence is emphasized.

The last word of this sentence is bolded.

Unordered list:
<ul>
<li>Unordered list item</li>
<li>Unordered list item</li>
<li>Unordered list item</li>
</ul>

Ordered list:
<ol>
<li>First item in an ordered list</li>
<li>Second item in an ordered list</li>
<li>Third item in an ordered list</li>
</ol>

Ordered list with paragraph:

<ul>
<li>Unordered list itemSecond paragraph</li>
<li>Unordered list item</li>
</ul>

A link to [opera.com](http://www.opera.com/" title="opera.com) and another to [Wikipedia](https://www.wikipedia.org/" title="Wikipedia)

Here is some inline code: opera-developer

Here is some code on a new line:

`$ whoami
ruario`

ruario

ruario

With raw HTML everything that is expected to work, works. A few more tags might work as well but I can at least confirm the basics are all working as they should.

ruario

ruario

And to have it clear, this thread was started in order for other users to obtain basic knowledge how to make their contribution nice and tidy.

That appears to have already been covered in the Markdown basics link at the bottom of every post. There are only two obvious breakages (emphasis and lists with paragraphs). Both of which can be worked around for now.

ruario

ruario

I did just a few quick tests looking for additional tags—outside those equivalent to the Markdown basics page. I just tried obvious ones, including a few that have already been mentioned here:

<strike> (or <s>): strike through
: underline
<kbd>: Defines a keyboard chatacter (a monpspace font is displayed)
<table>: tables
: With various attributes (e.g. face and color), further styling of posts is possible

I should also mention that many tags, actually end up on the page (try using them, then look at the the page source) but the text looks no different, probably due to CSS styling. Some examples of these include:

<dl>
<q>
…

It's late now so I am giving up investigating further. But in summary, Markdown basics give enough options for most people. For advanced users, the extra HTML possibilities allow them to work around two Markdown implementation issues (only one of which—emphasis—has a common use case) and give them quite a few more options.

I should probably end with a word of caution. I suspect anything in addition to the Markdown basics is just a nice bonus that could go away. So don't rely heavily on them and always consider how your post will display if they ever go away.

A Former User

We've discovered some troubles recently still, haven't we?

ruario

ruario

We've discovered some troubles recently still, haven't we?

Like what? I see nothing outside of the two issues I listed, that isn't already covered as a caveat in the Markdown guide. People just need to pay a little attention.

A Former User

It took me a tinkering to properly show the example above:
these forums' markup gets something corrupted even within its own "code" parsing (embracing within a pair of those "back apostrophes"(I can't figure out how to show them now)); while the HTML "<code>" tag doesn't show the full parsing either - it hid the angular brackets in my example.

<hr>

: With various attributes (e.g. face and color), further styling of posts is possible

I read this tag is deprecated - no?

<hr>

I should probably end with a word of caution. I suspect anything in addition to the Markdown basics is just a nice bonus that could go away. So don't rely heavily on them and always consider how your post will display if they ever go away.

That makes sense. Using HTML commenting is a bit slower though.

ruario

ruario

I read this tag is deprecated - no?

Sure, one of the reasons I said, "I suspect anything in addition to the Markdown basics is just a nice bonus that could go away."

ruario

ruario

By the way (within the limitations of the formatting options that are available) you could write in another format and then use an extension like Marksy.

Just right click and "Activate Marksy!" before you post (or Ctrl+Shift+m), to convert back to Markdown (or HTML) before you post.

P.S. It looks like Marksy might use an external service for conversion, so use with caution if your are converting personal or private texts.

ruario

ruario

it hid the angular brackets in my example.

Looks like it is a feature of Markdown. Go read those guides.

Deleted User

Deleted User

You could improve the forum and add all markdown stuff in the editor of posts and when posting a new thread or in a thread. Because use that code may be a bit difficult for beginners.

sgunhouse

sgunhouse Moderator Volunteer

The biggest formatting problems are people who post without reading (or understanding) the markdown guide. If you are posting a link and not expecting the forum to "linkify" it for you (that is, you use a proper URL format) then you're fine. If you want to post a link as text, a code tag works fine for that. But as soon as you post a URL and expect the forum to linkify it automatically, you can run into trouble. Likewise people who can't post images because they don't know the tags. As long as they fixed that issue with the smilie for XP (which they did) then everything is behaving as specified.

ruario

ruario

I had a look at a random thread. As I have mod access I can look at what they wrote and what actually displayed. It is fairly easy to see what the user intended and clearly the display doesn't always come out the way they hoped.

The most common problems are:

Not leaving a blank line, before and after starting a list
Putting extra new lines in a list (a single carriage return should be used between each item)
Using the wrong characters as bullet points in a list. For example # or 1), rather than * or 1.
Not adding an extra a new line after someone is quoted (making the the reply look like part of the quote)
Not putting angle brackets '<>' around a URL that includes an underscore

If we could help people avoid those mistakes, all would be good!

P.S. I fixed the mistakes I saw in that example thread. Including a few from people who have posted here.

ruario

ruario

Maybe I should make an FAQ about formatting. Though I suspect it would not make a big difference.