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Where is the menu bar?

  • Originally posted by j7nj7n:

    Not that the 20-something year olds had an actual choice to use a menu or not. The simplified UI has become "familiar" to them, just like the menu bar was to us, because it was forced upon them.

    I think you're confusing teens and 20-somethings. :lol: We did in fact have our first computer experiences in the '90s. (Although admittedly the 20-something range is wide enough that someone could be a 20-something and be born after my first conscious encounter with MS-DOS in the early '90s.) I'll have you know that such programs as Microsoft Works 2.0 came with a menubar and MDI.

    PS Regardless of my first computer experience, older computers with MS-DOS and Windows 3.x were the only computers that were fully ours to play with in the mid '90s. By the late '90s that might've moved up to Windows 9x but there's still nothing fundamentally different thereโ€”except I also tried Linux and BeOS around then for the first time.

  • You're an exceptional computer user / operator. ๐Ÿ†™ :king:

    Chrome is evil. I met one 'old' man, who was also exceptional (as I perceived it) in that he was receptive to culture of next two generations after him, but still I was surprised that he wanted to have Chrome installed on his system. I was like wtf? That was a couple years ago.

    I guess I have became disillusioned with change, because I felt somewhat cheated when current values (not in computing) shifted quicker than I could acquire them. I get whatever they had, and expect Them to respect me for that, and that didn't happen. Because They were in charge and could say that something else was the standard now...

    The menu bar of DOS Navigator showing a group of 5 options, immediately recognizable to a user familiar with Windows (in this shape since late 1990s). The UI is kinda hybrid between NC and Windows.

  • Originally posted by j7nj7n:

    You're an exceptional computer user / operator. ๐Ÿ™‚

    In the early 2000s I had some friends who were compiling the latest Linux kernels in their spare time while I was reading books. I'm merely a relatively advanced user, and I've never compiled a Linux kernel. ๐Ÿ˜›

    Originally posted by j7nj7n:

    The menu bar of DOS Navigator showing a group of 5 options, immediately recognizable to a user familiar with Windows (in this shape since late 1990s). The UI is kinda hybrid between NC and Windows.

    I'm not familiar with that program, but I can show you Microsoft Works 2.0.

  • I know I now use the new Opera on my laptop where I browse and my computer use is amusement only.

    On my work computer, I still use Opera 12 and probably will for a long, long time as it's just instinctive to me and, to me, much easier.

    After all, I use the menu bar in MS Word (I still use MS Word 2003) all the time so naturally expect to use it in my browser, too.

    I don't understand the logic of completely getting rid of the menu bar rather than giving an option to use it or not. Doubt I ever will.

  • It seems to me, a complete rejection of the main menu is a very big mistake. Just because the menu is part of the standard interface familiar to all PC users (it was already mentioned above). You say that we do not need a menu. And I think it's just because the developers are too lazy to attach the checkbox as it was in Opera 12. Aiming to enter the market of devices designed for finger-pointing, the developers at the same time put an end to PC users.

  • Originally posted by raven-kg:

    And I think it's just because the developers are too lazy to attach the checkbox as it was in Opera 12.

    Too busy trying to fix important things. The menu bar is absent in all modern browsers, so I don't think most users expect to find it any longer:

    Firefox: Menu bar off by default, shown with Alt key
    Opera Presto: Menu bar off by default, enable from Button menu, shown with Alt key
    IE11: Menu bar off by default, show with Alt key
    Chrome: No menu bar; no Alt key shortcut either, click a button to show the menu
    Opera Blink: No menu bar; show with the Alt key or click a button.

    Originally posted by raven-kg:

    Aiming to enter the market of devices designed for finger-pointing, the developers at the same time put an end to PC users.

    Doesn't your PC have an Alt key or a mouse?

  • Originally posted by Pesala:

    Firefox: Menu bar off by default, shown with Alt key

    I have checked it by installing latest version of Firefox:

    Main menu is on by default.

    Originally posted by Pesala:

    Opera Presto: Menu bar off by default, enable from Button menu, shown with Alt key

    This is the first thing I do after I install opera presto. That's what I want to see in the new opera - let the user to decide whether he needs the main menu or not!

    Originally posted by Pesala:

    IE11: Menu bar off by default, show with Alt key

    IE last I saw was IE6 ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Originally posted by Pesala:

    Chrome: No menu bar; no Alt key shortcut either, click a button to show the menu
    Opera Blink: No menu bar; show with the Alt key or click a button.

    This is terrible!

    Originally posted by Pesala:

    Doesn't your PC have an Alt key or a mouse?

    Yes, it have. But why should I make an extra step instead of the usual use of the menu?
    You say "menu wasting space." I'll tell you so "pressing Alt key waste my time".
    Problem "waste of space" have an option to solve the problem - 90-95% modern monitors is widescreen and some elements can be drawn sideways. A "waste time" problem as I see nobody wants to solve.

    Pesala
    You say "If you do not like the new opera - use the old"! In this I am in agreement with you, if not one unpleasant fact - Opera 12 is aging, and updates will no longer be. Time will pass and we will be faced with a choice - to choose something else or stay with half of Internet resources that will not work in it. What to do then?

  • What to do then? One choice might be to install the latest version of Opera on your computer and run it alongside the Presto version. That way you have the best of both... a browser that will access all the sites you want and a browser that still has the features you require. I doubt the Blink version is going to re-introduce the menu bar so if this is absolutely necessary to you, then you'd probably be better advised to keep FIrefox as your default browser.

  • Originally posted by raven-kg:

    I have checked it by installing latest version of Firefox:

    Firefox is (luckily) somewhat more native in Linux than in Windows.

  • Both Firefox and IE can show the menu bar permanently on Windows (apart from temporarily with Alt), i.e., they are in the same boat as Presto Opera: hiding it by default but giving the user the choice to enable it. Which I'm fine with.

    It's only Chrome, of the three big browsers, that doesn't have the option of enabling the menu bar. Which is the reason why I have never used it.

  • Thank you ImportEarnest for your insights on this forum and this topic.
    After reading thru many comments under this original post, I will just go
    download Ver 12 which seems to be the most compatible with the
    way I use Opera and may be the best for many others who posted
    here also. Eventually the Opera team will either bring back these
    functions or not and depending on whether they do that or not will
    determine whether I continue my long run with them or not. I've been
    onboard since at least Ver 4, quite possibly earlier.
    To Opera developers ... my personal view is ... if I wanted Opera
    to be more like IE, I would just use IE.

    Oh ... and Pesala ... maybe you should just recline a bit more, you
    obviously need to relax and not let what others post get to you so
    badly ... I have a feeling doing this would obviously be a benefit
    to your state of health.

  • Originally posted by Al-Khwarizmi:

    Both Firefox and IE can show the menu bar permanently on Windows (apart from temporarily with Alt), i.e., they are in the same boat as Presto Opera: hiding it by default but giving the user the choice to enable it. Which I'm fine with.

    It's only Chrome, of the three big browsers, that doesn't have the option of enabling the menu bar. Which is the reason why I have never used it.

    Exactly. Chrome is the very last browser I go to if I'm trying to see if another site will work better than Opera. First is Firefox.

  • Originally posted by Pesala:

    Originally posted by raven-kg:

    And I think it's just because the developers are too lazy to attach the checkbox as it was in Opera 12.

    Too busy trying to fix important things. The menu bar is absent in all modern browsers, so I don't think most users expect to find it any longer:

    Firefox: Menu bar off by default, shown with Alt key
    Opera Presto: Menu bar off by default, enable from Button menu, shown with Alt key
    IE11: Menu bar off by default, show with Alt key
    Chrome: No menu bar; no Alt key shortcut either, click a button to show the menu
    Opera Blink: No menu bar; show with the Alt key or click a button.

    Uh, what & where is the "button menu"? And there is no option for a Menu Bar in any of my dropdown menus, nor is there any menu bar "on the left".

  • Originally posted by bumbleball:

    Thank you ImportEarnest for your insights on this forum and this topic.

    He lacks insight and is short-sighted like you. Features and options are always nice to have, but most are not essential. If any feature is essential for you, then you will have to stay with the old version until the new one has it. What could be simpler? I am also staying with the old version for now, but the lack of a top menu bar is irrelevant โ€” it certainly doesn't stop me accessing the menus. I never use it in Opera 11.64 either.

    It is my personal view that the menu bar will not return, but its early days yet. Come back in six months and see if Opera for Blink is any closer to being a viable browser. I said Give it a Year about 5 months ago.

  • Originally posted by StevenCee:

    Originally posted by Pesala:

    ... Opera Presto: Menu bar off by default, enable from Button menu, shown with Alt key
    ...

    Uh, what & where is the "button menu"? And there is no option for a Menu Bar in any of my dropdown menus, nor is there any menu bar "on the left".

    In Opera Presto, look for the red button with the half-"O"-logo and the text word "Opera". Click that and you should get a pop-up menu, one entry (near the bottom) being "Show Menu Bar"; click that and the Menu Bar appears while the red Opera button auto-magically disappears. Then, in the Menu Bar, if you click on "File", you will get a pop-up of options; unchecking the "Show Menu Bar" entry near the bottom of the pop-up will instantly remove the Menu Bar and cause the red Opera button to reappear. So you can toggle the Menu bar on and off using these techniques (though I personally use a custom button that I always keep on a toolbar to let me do the toggling... there are times when I want a Menu Bar and times when I don't, depending on what else I'm doing).

    On my Opera installations, the red Opera button appears at the left end of my Tabs bar... but I've so customized all my versions over the years that I can't be sure that's where the default location normally exists in a completely 'fresh' installation.

  • Originally posted by blackbird71:

    On my Opera installations, the red Opera button appears at the left end of my Tabs bar... but I've so customized all my versions over the years that I can't be sure that's where the default location normally exists in a completely 'fresh' installation.

    The Opera button refuses to be customized. It always hangs out in the top left, regardless what you want. Combined with the lack of an option for a regular titlebar, it's one of the very worst bugs in Opera 10.50+. You can enable the menubar (which should be wholly separate from titlebar or not) and disable the tabbar, but if you disable both you just get an empty bar with the stupid Opera button. If you try to disable it, it'll pop right back up.

  • Originally posted by blackbird71:

    In Opera Presto, look for the red button with the half-"O"-logo and the text word "Opera". Click that and you should get a pop-up menu, one entry (near the bottom) being "Show Menu Bar"; click that and the Menu Bar appears while the red Opera button auto-magically disappears. Then, in the Menu Bar, if you click on "File", you will get a pop-up of options; unchecking the "Show Menu Bar" entry near the bottom of the pop-up will instantly remove the Menu Bar and cause the red Opera button to reappear. So you can toggle the Menu bar on and off using these techniques (though I personally use a custom button that I always keep on a toolbar to let me do the toggling... there are times when I want a Menu Bar and times when I don't, depending on what else I'm doing).

    On my Opera installations, the red Opera button appears at the left end of my Tabs bar... but I've so customized all my versions over the years that I can't be sure that's where the default location normally exists in a completely 'fresh' installation.

    Blackbird, thanks for your comment, but in my Opera (ver.18), there is nothing resembling what anyone has written here. The only "big O" is the one at the very top toolbar, and it's not an O but just Opera, and it's dropdown menu says nothing about a menu bar....

  • Opera/Presto has an optional menubar; Opera/Blink unfortunately does not.

  • Originally posted by Frenzie:

    Originally posted by blackbird71:

    On my Opera installations, the red Opera button appears at the left end of my Tabs bar... but I've so customized all my versions over the years that I can't be sure that's where the default location normally exists in a completely 'fresh' installation.

    The Opera button refuses to be customized. It always hangs out in the top left, regardless what you want. ...

    Hmm. That may be true in some sense, but in both my Opera 11.52 and 12.14u setups (which I'm looking at even as I type this), the tab bar appears at the bottom of the Opera screen (which is where I want it to be), and the red Opera button is indeed at its far left... as it has for a very long time. However, in 11.52, the button simply contains the half-"O"-logo and lacks the "Opera" text that appears in the 12.14 version.

  • Originally posted by StevenCee:

    Originally posted by blackbird71:

    In Opera Presto, look for the red button with the half-"O"-logo and the text word "Opera". ...

    Blackbird, thanks for your comment, but in my Opera (ver.18), there is nothing resembling what anyone has written here. The only "big O" is the one at the very top toolbar, and it's not an O but just Opera, and it's dropdown menu says nothing about a menu bar....

    That's why I used the term "Opera Presto" - that term corresponds to the "old" Opera versions at or below 12.16. Opera versions 15 and above are Blink Opera versions (built around the Blink rendering engine). In any case, I was initially responding to your question about the "button Menu", which term only appeared in Pesala's list of browser behavior with regard to Opera Presto... so I was assuming you were trying to get a Presto version to show the Menu Bar as well. As Frenzie has noted above, Blink Opera versions (including 18) don't include a menu bar, at least not yet.

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