Opera 15 is a DISASTER

rumpel23

rumpel23

Count me in as another long-time Opera user who uninstalled Opera 15.

After reading this thread, I do resent the fact that when I went to get a copy of Opera to install on a newly set up Win 7 x64 machine, the website gave me Opera 15 without any warning that it's still a beta. I don't do betas any more -- haven't the time or the interest in dealing with the problems that sometimes come with them -- including missing features.

In my case, I was upgrading from Win XP Pro. That means a clean install. So of course the Opera 15 install didn't find any Opera 12 files to import. And the folder structures have changed, making it hard to figure out what to do with the config files from my old setup. Then I discovered some of the missing features -- especially the site preferences for things like javascript, plugins, etc. That was enough for me. I uninstalled Opera 15, installed a copy of Opera 12.16 from Opera's website, and copied the config files into place from my backup of the old system. Everything seems to be OK. Whew. But all that blew away a whole afternoon in which I could have been installing other software or enjoying the sunshine.

Thank you, Opera, for at least making the configuration issue fairly simple in Opera 12. I really didn't want to lose all my bookmarks and passwords. The bookmarks and Speed Dial came across from Opera Link OK, but not the passwords or site preferences. And I don't know what else didn't come across; that was enough for me. I just overwrote what was in the config files with the files from the old system.

blackbird71

blackbird71

Originally posted by Rumpel23:

... After reading this thread, I do resent the fact that when I went to get a copy of Opera to install on a newly set up Win 7 x64 machine, the website gave me Opera 15 without any warning that it's still a beta. I don't do betas any more -- haven't the time or the interest in dealing with the problems that sometimes come with them -- including missing features. ...

Opera 15 is not a beta. It's a final, stable version release of a browser. I say this not as a fan of 15 (I'm not), but because it's reality. In software, beta refers to a design whose stability is still somewhat uncertain, for whatever reasons - not a term for describing its feature set. Just because a version lacks certain (or even many) features, it does not make it a beta or an alpha. I realize that many users who are disappointed in the feature situation with Opera 15 use the "beta" term derisively - but that doesn't help either establish the credibility of the poster's complaints or keep the air clear as the discussion continues.

Opera has for some time expressed how they're doing this: they will be releasing a series of "final" versions (15 being the initial one), each of which will be (hopefully) self-stable and each of which will add certain features or changes to how (and which) things can be done by the user. Some might call it a step-by-step plan to eventually get to a full-featured, mature desktop browser without stepping into a myriad of cow-pies along the way by attempting too much too soon. Some of us might prefer a different approach, but this was/is Opera's call to make, and this is how they're developing it. So user patience is the watchword... along with more careful, measured rhetoric regarding what we as users want to see done. I, for one, am certainly willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as this goes along and will await their further development efforts to see how well the browser matures. Opera has been extremely skilled in the past in matching user needs to features, so let's see where this all leads over the next months.

One thing Opera might have done better on or before 15's release would have been to better communicate about the version 15 user functions - there are a lot of changes from the older Opera versions, and needless to say, this has upset a lot of users who were caught by surprise. I honestly think Opera has learned a lot from this experience, and they certainly are making better communications efforts (and that includes seriously listening to complaints) in the various version blogs and many of the Forum threads.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by soulloot:

search for terms shareholder and/or leushino on this page (and leushino's usage of the word "we"): http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1699132&t=1374766554&page=1#comment14423562

Too funny. Your thinking (in many areas) needs to be adjusted. You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not a shareholder. I'm a long-time, LOYAL Opera user... one who has paid for the browser in the past. I'm fully behind Opera's new browser and expectant that it will gain much popularity in the long run. There are bound to be some casualties (perhaps you?) but that's to be expected. People don't like change and ironically many of those least adaptable are younger geeks. But there are also the ones least likely to pay or bring any income into the company. You are aware, are you not, that Opera is a business for profit... right? Relax. Be patient. Use Opera 12 until the new browser contains the features you now miss.

Oh... and stop being such a conspiracy theorists (although it is amusing).

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by leushino:

Originally posted by arashpour:

@leushino, I will find it hard to believe if you deny that you are getting paid by Opera to post in these forums constantly ( I sincerely hope that you get paid!). Nobody has that much time or will to come here and go on every topic making long arguments defending what is basically rubbish. Anyway, I hope at least the money is worth it to be a hired troll\ LOL

Relax, my misguided friend. Opera is not paying me anything. Hey... they need all their resources right now as they re-gear to create the best browser in the world. Right? There are so many worried souls, wringing their hands as they believe that Opera is dying. Buck up! Have you tried v16? Go over to the dev blogs and learn what is happening. It's very exciting as new features are being added and older ones returned. This browser is going to rock. Oh... and learn what a "troll" truly is before you start tossing around terms which you clearly do not understand. BUT... no offense taken by me. I wish you well.

I didn't offend you at all. I just stated some facts. BTW, you did not deny that you are working for Opera? Oh well, who would believe you anyway given the fact that you are still constantly answering EVERY post against the new version. Are you even only one person?! And oh, you better look up the meaning of "LOL" to understand that "troll" calling was a joke.

Nonetheless nobody is going to change his mind about Opera if you attack them or not. It was not YOUR opinion that made Opera great. It was Opera that made Opera great. So save your energy (and Opera company better save their money and fire you already).

jocelynjames

jocelynjames

Yeah, I haven't been liking this new Opera at all. Which is sad because it's chrome based and I had higher expectations... There are a lot of great chrome-based browsers like rockmelt and the torch browser, I really wanted Opera to be just as good. Maybe the next version will be better.

unclebobo

unclebobo

Opera 15 is nothing more than a sellout to google. If I wanted their lousy chrome browser I would have gotten it from them. Seems to me that you are not "developing" anything. It is more like you are CONVERTING to google. I'll be dumping this google-paid piece of crapwork and reverting back to 12.16. The last great browser on earth.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by arashpour:

I didn't offend you at all. I just stated some facts. BTW, you did not deny that you are working for Opera? Oh well, who would believe you anyway given the fact that you are still constantly answering EVERY post against the new version. Are you even only one person?! And oh, you better look up the meaning of "LOL" to understand that "troll" calling was a joke.

Nonetheless nobody is going to change his mind about Opera if you attack them or not. It was not YOUR opinion that made Opera great. It was Opera that made Opera great. So save your energy (and Opera company better save their money and fire you already).

Your facts are nothing more than surmises. I do NOT work for Opera. I have no financial connection with Opera or its subsidiaries. As far as people believing me or not, that is their prerogative. The last time I checked the mirror, there was only one of me staring back so yeah... I'm one guy (who loves Maui, by the way).

I'm not attacking anyone. I'm essentially trying to tell Opera lovers to act reasonably and like adults. Behaving like spoiled children is counter-productive and will not bring about any substantive change.

No need for me to save my energy. I have plenty and I enjoy calming troubled waters. I've already seen some angry-types change their tune and several have decided to stay the course. Opera 12 is NOT returning so you'd better get used to it. Holding your breath, throwing yourself on the floor and kicking and screaming will result in bruised shins (not good for you, you know). As I see it you have a few viable choices:

- stay with Opera 12 (and keep an eye on the new browser's development)
- leave Opera altogether for another browser (may I suggest SeaMonkey)
- be a brave little man and try Opera 15 and its successors. Try to find workarounds for those features that are currently missing. Consider it an adventure.

Now.. I'm not going to charge you for my expert advice. I know.... my generosity overwhelms you (hey, I'm just a generous guy, what can I say?). But I want to see a big smile on that sour puss of yours. So... there you go!

t-bone tone

t-bone tone

I see poor Leushino is doing his best 'King Canute' impression.. Being an Opera 15 apologist is tough, as no one is fooled by his positive spin on what is most certainly the worst browser version I have come across in all my years using this product.

It is not the fact that Opera have erred big time and launched a 'stinker', it is the horrible fact the devs seemingly have never used any previous versions of Opera, or are being paid by the competition.

I suspect by now, at the higher levels they will be reaping what they have sowed, and there will be more than a few regrets of letting the devs remove this and that from what was a great browser, and the 'cold water in the face' reception by the users of Opera15.

We can only hope, they learn from it. If not, Opera truly IS doomed.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by T-Bone Tone:

I suspect by now, at the higher levels they will be reaping what they have sowed, and there will be more than a few regrets of letting the devs remove this and that from what was a great browser, and the 'cold water in the face' reception by the users of Opera15.

We can only hope, they learn from it. If not, Opera truly IS doomed.

Nah. Your suspicions are misplaced (but they're imaginative so you get credit for that). Opera Next will outlive its pallbearers. The only one doomed, is that person who insists on going backwards. And going backwards would be returning to Presto and a suite that never caught on with more than 3%. And Opera cannot afford to do that.

kolbur

kolbur

Just installed Opera 15 and came here to observe the shitstorm.
LOL, are the developers completely insane? Sooooo many important things seem to be completely gone! I don't even know where to start. Is there a complete list of cut out features? This is just mind boggling. It seems that there are no customization options AT ALL. OK I can change the background... -.- I don't give a flying fuck about the god damn background, I want to customize my freaking UI like you always could do easily in Opera. This always was it's main strength and now they just completely removed it? Insanity!

Deleted User

Deleted User

Well, let me join the shitstorm then.

I just installed (and very quickly uninstalled) Opera 16. What a freakshow.
Opera 15 & 16 are literally Chromium clones. Chromium clones with a few clever extra's that are readily available as extensions for the real Chrome. Why bother?

I couldn't give a rat's ass whether the new version is a complete rewrite or not. When a feature (many of them actually) exists in one version but not in the next, it's "removed". Why did they do that? To mock us? To show what a horribly bad decision the move to the Blink engine was? What asshole makes these kinds of decisions at Opera, and why does he still work there?

(oh wow, it's a good thing cursing is allowed here. kinda shows off the urgency of the matter, dunit?)

Anyway, where I come from, this tactic is known as "digging your own grave". It's like an athlete who deliberately shoots himself in the knee. Not a good idea if you wanna continue to be an athlete. Cripple yourself and you will fall. Simple is that. And that what's happening to Opera.

msols

msols

I was a fan of Opera and, as many of you, I'm very frustrated and angry with the lack of features of Opera 15. Perhaps Opera was trying to gain new users with a clone of Chrome, despite the loss of "long-time" users, or perhaps they really wanted a "tabula rasa" where they could rebuild the browser with, in time, almost all its features.

It doesn't matter. Opera 12 is dead (including my beloved M2) and all of us have made our point. Now, we can only wait for future versions of this new Opera and see if they are listening to users.

My opinion: In due time, we will have a browser with almost as many features as Opera 12, but more compatible with webs.

Every day I repeat to myself: "All will be well"

paulverizzo

paulverizzo

Originally posted by leushino:

Patience, Gentlemen. It's in a development stage. Meanwhile, use Opera 11 or 12. Features that you miss will be added. It takes time to rewrite from the ground up.

Probably not. It's based on the open source webkit product, just like Chrome and Safari and some older Nokia phones. If not in the webkit core, forget it.

Opera just joined the list of also rans. Opera development staff meeting last winter: "Hey, guys and girls, I have a great idea! Let's change Opera from the wonderful, unique, much love product that it is and make it like Chrome and Safari! No more Save as MHTML, no more search toolbar."

Starting with a clean Windows install, I downloaded Opera 15...............WTF is this???????..........Fortunately, I found 12.16 on the intertubes and it is, and will be my browser until it grows a beard. For the icon for 15, I named it, "Son of Opera."

Never thought Internet Exploder would become my secondary browser. At least it has save as HTML.

Been with Opera since 6.0. Even paid $35 for it way back when, no ads and great email support.

Sign me, 12.16 Forever

newworldman

newworldman

Originally posted by jrista:

I think the feature that I am most infuriated is now missing is the closed tabs list. I used that feature ALL THE TIME. I hated the fact that none of the other browsers had it

It's available in Firefox but I think via an extension. I have it in my Firefox but can't remember from which extension!

Along the same line was the infinite history, the durability of everything in every tab (i.e. if you started typing text in input fields, then closed the browser or the system crashed...Opera WAS the ONLY browser that PRESERVED THAT INFO!!

Again, available in Firefox via extension.

This is utterly pathetic. Operas one strength is gone. The unparalleled functionality, its unparalleled convenience, all the things it once did to make using the web, particularly in unstable environments, a pleasant and even addictive experience....are gone. What a sad, sad, depressing day. What a joke. Opera 15...RIP.

Best thing to do is keep 12.x and 15.x installed side-by-side, continue to use 12.x, and then monitor 15.x over the next few months to see which 12.x features get added.

Based on the typical critical posts on 15, if you really must abandon Opera, then the closest you can get to it right now is Firefox. But it will take you some time to learn how to customise it to be as close as possible to what you're used to with Opera.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Still in development or not, quite how they could release it without a bookmarks list/folder is mind boggling.

Deleted User

Deleted User

What a truckload of hysterical drama queens. Opera 15 is not a finished browser. You can choose to use it side by side with v.12.x OR you can choose to simply continue with v 12.x and keep an eye on the new Opera as features are added back. You also have the option of moving to another browser and waiting to see how the development of Opera proceeds. OR... you can be adventurous and install Opera 15 and try to find work arounds for those features currently missing. Having said all that, Opera is proceeding quite nicely. It's fast, it's compatible and features are returning. No need to wring your hands and panic. The thing that is apparent in these threads is that there are many first-time posters (really?) who evidently do not read very well. You need to educate yourself in terms of what Opera is planning before pressing the panic button.

rumpel23

rumpel23

Originally posted by leushino:

What a truckload of hysterical drama queens. Opera 15 is not a finished browser. ... You need to educate yourself in terms of what Opera is planning before pressing the panic button.

Nice point, leushino, but it doesn't quite fly -- because Opera did NOT post an advisory on the v15 download page. If we'd been aware that we were "upgrading" to an unfinished product, we'd have done as you suggest -- stayed with v12.16 until v15 was fully baked, and maybe taken a look at v15 from time to time to see how it was coming along.

As it is, Opera has not met the expectations of those who installed v15. They now have a bunch of disappointed users who thought they were getting something "new and improved" because Opera let them think that. Some of those users may not come back. Me? I'll stay with v12.16 for now, and check back on v15 in a while.

But now I'm worried that Opera has shot itself in the foot. That's not usually fatal -- unless it weakens their ability to compete in a crowded browser market. Which I'm afraid it does.

langrobi

langrobi

I see a lot of comments that Opera 15 is not a finished browser, we should wait until the older features are put back, it's in a development stage, we should be patient and stick it out with version 12, etc. This way of thinking didn’t work for me. Since Opera 12 is a dead-end, I had to find an alternative and long-term solution. I tried Opera 15, but uninstalled immediately, just like its similarly inferior brother, Chrome. I tried several other browsers and eventually wound up at Firefox. After searching for some addons, I achieved a comparable functionality with it.

It was a bad decision to come up with this Chrome-clone too soon. If indeed it’s planned that something of the old Opera will return within the new engine, then they should have waited a little longer rather than alienate a lot of users by a half-baked product. (It is also possible that they have no intention to improve it too much and will just go with the crowd and remain one of the browsers for dummies.) I don’t know if I will check back in the future to see how things worked out once I decided to migrate to another browser. As I read other forums, I'm not alone.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by Rumpel23:

Nice point, leushino, but it doesn't quite fly -- because Opera did NOT post an advisory on the v15 download page. If we'd been aware that we were "upgrading" to an unfinished product, we'd have done as you suggest -- stayed with v12.16 until v15 was fully baked, and maybe taken a look at v15 from time to time to see how it was coming along.

As it is, Opera has not met the expectations of those who installed v15.

Now that is interesting. Somehow I never fell into the problem you've related above. I knew from the start that Opera 15 (or Next as it was dubbed then) was experimental and that the best thing to do was to stick with v. 12.16 until such time as the features absolutely essential to my browsing were returned. And you know... I'm just an average guy, Rumpel. Nothing special about me so if "I" could manage to understand this, how is it that so many according to you, were duped? Very odd.

You go on to add that Opera has not met the expectations of those who installed v15 but that's not completely correct. Let me correct that statement: "Opera has not met the expectations of a group on these forums ... PERIOD." That's ALL you can say with absolute certainty because the millions of Opera users around the world have not posted their views. And I would dare say that the disgruntled group posting here numbers no more than a few hundred (if that). In addition, very zealous members of that group continue to post day after day the same messages throughout the forums but in truth don't really add anything new. It's the same messages we heard back during the first week. So in reality, the numbers are not nearly as great as you're making them out to be.

Opera is heading in the right direction. Just give them time. If you can't wait, stick with v.12.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Originally posted by langrobi:

I see a lot of comments that Opera 15 is not a finished browser, we should wait until the older features are put back, it's in a development stage, we should be patient and stick it out with version 12, etc. This way of thinking didn’t work for me. Since Opera 12 is a dead-end, I had to find an alternative and long-term solution.

Your thinking is wrong. Opera 12 is still being given security updates and is the Opera that you currently love. Why abandon it? There is no viable alternative... period. And while you use Opera 12, Opera 15 will continue to be developed and features will be added. Patience.