Version 20/21 has no way to save a bookmark in a specific folder?

lem729

lem729

There's enough there, sir, right now. But look, there can be some refinements, particurly needed is bookmark import/export manager. But no point waxing indignant. Anyone who has followed Opera Blink will know that initially Opera was going to make the Speed Dial (with it folders) and infinite speed dial positions the major bookmarking vehicle, along with Stash as a quick-time bookmarking backup. And that Speed Dial (with all of its bookmarking capability) is awesome. Your major alternate browsers cannot match it. After a lot of concern and angst by users who didn't want such a dramatic change from how they traditionally bookmark, Opera rather recently added the bookmarks toolbar. clearly, enough there for a user to be able to operate quite comfortably/reasonably, though a few refinements could be added (as Opera polishes this a bit). Remember let me repeat again-- the bookmarks toolbar was a sudden late addition -- a change for Opera in what they intended for bookmarks. Opera is still working on the bookmarks stuff, though I don't have a link to the blog that discusses it, take it as a given. They are working on refinements. Still, there is more ability in Opera to bookmark and vehicles to accomplish it than with any other browser on the planet!

I'm sorry you took more than an hour of your time, trying to understand the bookmark system. We shouldn't have to take any time to learn things. Why, everything should be given to us -- a free browser, no need to learn how to use it, instant gratification. Lol, it's the new world we demand Look, If you activate the bookmarks toolbar, add the Opera Extension "Add Bookmark," and to give you that old-time feeling, though not essential, maybe a bookmarks manager extension in the Chrome store like "Neater Bookmarks," (which I use), Chrookmarks for Chrome or Tiday Bookmarks (take your pick) you're good to go. And if you really think that's not enough, go find another browser. I've no doubt you'll be unhappy with that too and complaining for some other reason a day or two down the road, maybe just for the pleasure of complaining.

Have a wonderful day!

samkook

samkook

I tried stash for the first time a couple of days ago and it was even worst than I imagined after hearing how many though it was terrible.

The speed dial is incredible for a small amount of links, but as soon as you start having more, it becomes really slow to navigate and you can't see much at the same time(with windows zoomed at 150% on my 720p TV, I can only see 2 icons(1 row) on it, even though there would be enough space for 3 times as much). On a normal screen, you'd probably get around 20 at a time at most I assume.

And the bookmark bar is the worst of all worlds, you can put very little in it at the same time, you only have a small icon and you can't read much of the text since it's cut off very short.

Your only viable option is to use an extension if you want to be able to see a decent amount at a time with enough text to know exactly what it is.

Tab outliner(which lem729 made me discover), even though it's not exactly called bookmarking, seemed like a great way to improve on the old bookmark menu. If I were to use the new opera version more(I have no need for bookmarks as it is), I'd definitely give it a try: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tabs-outliner/eggkanocgddhmamlbiijnphhppkpkmkl?hl=en-US

It's from the chrome store though so you need to install the Opera extension "Download Chrome Extension": https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/download-chrome-extension-9/?display=en

If you prefer something more conventional, there are tons of bookmarking extensions in both the opera add-ons and the chrome store.

lem729

lem729

@samkook

Most users aren't zooming Windows the way you are. Still, in reading your post, I was thinking maybe of one last try for you along the lines of the bookmarking extensions you refer to as "more conventional." I know you don't like the Bookmarks bar (with the 150 Percent zoomed view) (and I might well not either) (I'd have to see it), so I'm thinking maybe give Neater Bookmarks a chance, as it presents a nice vertical display of bookmarks (with folders within folders). I think you may actually like this one. Part of the issue though is the way you're zooming things on your computer. It's hard for me to tell how Neater Bookmarks will look (zoomed -- which you need -- or if zooming windows at 150 percent will, in fact, zoom the Neater Windows extension menu 150 percent) (which it sounds like you want). But here's a link with a picture.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/neater-bookmarks/ofgjggbjanlhbgaemjbkiegeebmccifi

And a review. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/neater-bookmarks-get-a-tree-view-for-your-bookmarks-in-google-chrome/

samkook

samkook

Even without zoom(which I require to be able to read text from 10 feet away), neither of the 3 native bookmarking options would be good enough.

That extension is certainly a step in the right way, but there doesn't seem to be a way to save a bookmark directly in a specific folder while the list is open(which was my absolute favorite feature of the old opera's bookmark which no other browser seem to have, sadly) and there doesn't seem to be any managing option built-in at least from what I'm reading in the comments(so I'm not sure how that would work in opera since it use the built-in one from chrome).

Either way, I don't need bookmarks for my current use of it since I only use it for 5-6 different website which stay in the tab bar permanently and I don't see myself being able to use it on my main PC anytime soon(and it won't even be an option until they implement a way to manage the updates).

But as I said in my previous post, I'd try Tab outliner first since it looks like it would do a better job at bookmarking than anything I've seen yet if it works as advertised.

I wish it'd be available in firefox to which I'm slowly migrating to from the old opera since I found an extension that has tab stacking like opera(using "tab utilities" and it's said exactly that way in the description and it also has a single window mode option, pinning, protecting and a ton of customization that can do things I've never even though about so I'm in heaven) so I can finally use a browser with tab grouping that works as I want it to and isn't abandoned.

lem729

lem729

With the Opera Extension, "Add Bookmark," you get a star icon on the right side of the address bar.

https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/add-bookmark/

If you click on it to add the bookmark, it lets you select a folder (which is good). Now it treats all folders the same, even subfolders, so it's not perfect, but it does help.

Good luck with the fox. It's hard to find exactly what one wants. You just have to pick what seems best. I hope the menu size works better for you in Firefox. I do like their extension, the All-in-one Sidebar (perhaps it owes a debt to the Old Opera), but it is pretty good. And you can set up your bookmarks to show in that sidebar.

samkook

samkook

Selecting the folder after clicking on an add bookmark button is how every browser does it(the star icon is one of the feature I hate most since I find it useless and it can't be removed in most browser so I certainly won't add it if I can help it) and I found the old opera way to do it much better since I could preview what I put in the folder(in case I already had it bookmarked or something) before adding it to it.

The menu size is only an issue on my TV, at worst it would only be an annoyance on my PC monitor like the gray in the address bar which makes it harder to see and still can't be disabled after years of asking for it.

I bet firefox is the same(it's on by default at least), but I haven't searched for a way to do it yet.

Firefox is good enough with a couple of extension to get most of the features I loved in the old opera(tab grouping, speed dial, ctrl+z to undo a closed tab, whitelisting self-signed ssl certificates, session manager) and I already had to have it installed for the Live HTTP Headers extension which I require sometimes.

It's biggest problem now is that it switched to a chrome like style which is terrible(I honestly don't know why they keep copying it) and there's a useless stupid menu(obviously made for touchscreens in mind) that's supposed to replace the main menu and it can't be removed.

It's never been possible to find exactly what I wanted in a browser(although mixing features from a couple of older versions of opera with a better engine would have come pretty close, but every time they made something truly great, they made one or more thing worst that couldn't be disabled or were hard to(I had to unpack and edit the default skin every time I updated just to get the title bar)).

lem729

lem729

That Add Bookmark extension is not useless in Opera 21. It fills a lack in Opera 21 by letting you add a bookmark, and at the time you do it, seamlessly put it in a folder. There is currently, no other way to do that. Control D adds a bookmark. You have to separately drag it to a folder. And the other ways of making bookmarks involve dragging actions -- from the Speed Dial to the Personal Bookmarks bar, or from the icon on the left side of the Address bar to the Personal Bookmarks Bar. That's not as easy as using the extension, "Add Bookmark."

Also, it's extremely easy in Opera to deactivate or uninstall any extension, including, "Add Bookmark," and when you do that, the star icon is gone. If you have any extensions in Opera, just go Control Shift E and explore your extensions. You will see how to deactivate them and to uninstall them. It works! So don't worry about not being able to get rid of an extension. The nice thing is that it's easy to explore something, and then if you don't like it, just get rid of it.

samkook

samkook

The only reason it's not useless is that all the other options are worst.

I find it useless(it's my personal opinion, I'm sure plenty of people love it) compared to the way the old opera permitted us to add bookmarks which I find far superior for my needs. If I could do that, then there would be no need for that damn star button(which I would love to get rid of in 12.17).

I'm not worried about not being able to remove it, I'm just saying I already know I don't want it so I see no reason to add it in the first place.

lem729

lem729

Good, we're agreed that Add Bookmark is not useless. I even will assert that Internet Explorer 11, Firefox and Chrome are all more elegant in how they handle adding a bookmark. But I do understand that Opera initially didn't plan to have a Personal Bookmark Bar at all (they thought the Speed Dial (with folders) (quite awesome in my opinion, but not a replacement for a Personal Bookmarks bar for most users), so that's why they're slow getting this bookmarking feature polished. I'm delighted that with the addition of a Personal Bookmarks Bar, they at least have taken a step in that direction. And I fully expect they will improve it. Now "Add Bookmark" in my humble opinion definitely helps (in the interim) as it does give you a way to save a bookmark in a specific folder. So I'm not at all as negative as you are on this I'm delighted to be a user of Opera, and enjoy significant aspects of it in preference to features of the other browsers -- though yes, they have their merits and advantages too. Personal tastes and needs differ.

samkook

samkook

You keep saying bookmark bar, but what people wanted were bookmarks, not a bookmark bar. The bookmark bar is simply a poor way to list bookmarks(a long text list needs to be vertical, not horizontal or you're making it much harder to read) and they'll hopefully implement other ways to display them in the future since it indeed wasn't planned at the beginning(I still don't understand how they thought the speed dial and stash would be enough to replace them).

I'm not sure why you keep insisting on a bookmark extension that tries to improve the native solution a little when you could be using tab outliner instead. Put that in a panel that can be hidden on the side of the browser like what the old opera had(I wasn't a fan of it, but it would be fitting for this) and you have a really powerful bookmarking solution, better than anything else currently implemented in any browser.

With it, you have folders, you can add notes to a link, you can bookmark an entire open window, you can load all the content of a folder or window at a time, you can drag and drop folders in text areas where it will create a list with links for it if you want to share it, you can add separators if you want different sections in your bookmarks, and probably much more(I haven't actually tried it, but I'm almost tempted to start using the new opera on my main PC just to give it a try).

The only "problem" with the extension is that it's made for grouping tabs which means it remembers everything. That would be improved upon by having a live and offline section or something like that and it could some polishing here and there, but that would have been a great innovation to have.

The problem with what they're currently doing is that they stopped innovating and are simply adding back previously existing features with the occasional small improvement upon them like the folders in the speed dial.

But yeah, personal taste and need do differ and I sadly never seem to like or want the same thing as most people since most things tend to evolve in a way I can't seem to understand why since it always seem to get worst to me.

lem729

lem729

You keep saying bookmark bar, but what people wanted were bookmarks, not a bookmark bar.>

Wait, the bar bends down at the right of the screen, so it gives you all your bookmarks.

The bookmark bar is simply a poor way to list bookmarks(a long text list needs to be vertical, not horizontal or you're making it much harder to read)>

No problem. If you want it more elegant (and an all vertical display), you add the Neater Bookmarks extension or Chrookmarks for Chrome, or Tidy Bookmarks for Chrome or other bookmark manager extensions. It's perfectly fine. You can even, if you don't want the bookmarks bar (that horizontal across the top), hide it. Control Shift E (and take the check out of show the bookmarks bar). And just use the vertical display in the bookmark manager extension. Anytime you need the Bookmarks bar, you can bring it back up with Control Shift E, and put the check in the bookmarks bar. It's so simple, it's almost a toggle.

I still don't understand how they thought the speed dial and stash would be enough to replace them.>

Because there's infinite storage capacity in the speed dial. And a search engine to help find things in it. AND they didn't think the vast bulk of users actually bookmark that much. I mean 100 bookmarks may be closer to the norm. 200 bookmarks? The speed dial could handle that in a snap. 400 bookmarks? The same. I mean, the speed dial has huge capacity. At that, they are right that most people do not bookmark that much. You don't like Speed Dial because you're zooming in on it 150 percent. I'm seeing 8 columns on my speed dial, and it looks great. And I have infinite capacity down -- rows that could go down forever. Still, I'm only using 3 rows, and prefer a personal bookmarks bar for the bulk of my bookmarks, because I want the speed dial to look wonderful (don't want it filled with folders and blotting out the wallpaper). The wallpaper on the Speed Dial page is critical to making the browser a beautiful environment. If it's a beautiful environment, the browser is fast, and I can access my bookmarks, it's a pleasure to use.

not sure why you keep insisting on a bookmark extension that tries to improve the native solution a little when you could be using tab outliner instead.>

Tab outliner is NOT a bookmark manager extensions. It's for tabs, and it isn't for me. I don't need that degree of complexity of treatment for the tabs, though I passed it along to you, because it seemed like something you might find useful. And the bookmark manager extensions -- like Neater Bookmarks -- work for me quite well. There's no reason why one couldn't use both a bookmark manager extension and Tab outliner (if you liked the latter). There are a number of interesting, quite substantive tab extensions (TooManyBookmarks for Chrome, One Tab for Chrome, and more) so there's more than tab outliner to consider, if you want tab help.

Put that in a panel that can be hidden on the side of the browser like what the old opera had(I wasn't a fan of it, but it would be fitting for this) and you have a really powerful bookmarking solution, better than anything else currently implemented in any browser.>

There are sidebar extensions in Chrome that can be used in Opera. You might enjoy taking a look at Sidewise Tree Style Tabs
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sidewise-tree-style-tabs/biiammgklaefagjclmnlialkmaemifgo?hl=en-US or Tab Sidebar. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tab-sidebar/egmcoemabahnkbkfgdifiafkhebcfpfo?hl=en-US

They're maybe not yet up to Firefox's All-in-one Sidebar, or Opera Presto's but they're being worked on, and can become much better. Quite frankly, though, I've gotten comfortable with Opera 21 working without a sidebar, and even though I play around with the sidebar in Firefox sometimes, and did in Opera Presto also, I can do without it.

The problem with what they're currently doing is that they stopped innovating and are simply adding back previously existing features with the occasional small improvement upon them like the folders in the speed dial.>

Are folders in the Speed Dial a small improvement? No way. It's a great innovation. And the Discover Feature I very much enjoy. No way do I believe Opera has stopped innovating. I look at what they did in Coast for Opera (on the Ipad) and it's a thoroughly marvelous innovation -- an absolutely different way of browsing. Why does the be-all and end-all need to be greater and greater complexity in a native browser? The problem is there's no end to what people want. I prefer aesthetics in the look, and an attractive minimalist browser with huge customization possibilities through extensions. It's, in my view, a better model. Why should I be stuck with everyone's wish-list in the native browser. I add what I want. You add what you want.

lem729

lem729

One correction. In terms of showing or hiding the Personal Bookmarks Bar discussed in my previous post (because you, Samkook don't like it, and seem to want a vertical display of bookmarks only), the keyboard shortcut is Alt P (settings) (not control shift E), and then take the check out of showing the personal bookmarks bar, or put it in if later you want to restore the bar. It's so simple, it's close to a toggle -- for showing or hiding the personal bookmarks bar.

samkook

samkook

I know tab outliner isn't meant as a bookmarking extension, but my point is that it should be since it can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be and it opened my eyes to bookmarking features I've never even thought of(although there would need to be a way to prevent it from loading all the opened tabs for it to work as only bookmarks, but once unloaded, they become the same thing as a bookmark). I find it's not a very good way to group tabs(I haven't found a better way for that than what the old opera did and there were no chrome or opera extension that can replicate it as of a few weeks ago), but an excellent way to manage links.

There's theoretical infinite storage in every single way to store webpage address, but classic bookmarks is the only one that can display a huge amount without having to scroll, the speed dial can't even come close even if you display an 8x8 square if that's even possible. This makes it much easier to have a global view of everything that you saved.

Don't get me wrong, I love the speed dial too(it's useless on my tv with my current settings, but I use it all the time on my pc), but bookmarks are usually webpage you don't visit very often, but want to keep stored for later use while the speed dial tends to be for more frequently used website you don't want to keep loaded as tabs(at least that's how I see it). Adding folders to it is nice, but it slows navigation down considerably because of the heavily graphical interface and the big thumbnails.

Folders in the speed dial is just a way to add more and sort them better. It's an improvement for sure, but I don't see how that's huge, probably because I don't see it as very useful for myself.

The discover feature just seem like a portal webpage integrated in the browser to me, they could have just pointed to a website that doesn the same without having to build and manage an interface for it.

As for opera coast, it has nothing to do with the desktop browser so I wouldn't count it as an innovation since it's completely separate, but after reading the last FAQ entry for it, I know it's not for me(I'm on android and wouldn't even consider buying an apple product):

I am a power-user. Why can't I do power-userish things like assign startup behavior or implement custom CSS?

You're missing the point of Opera Coast (besides, if you want that kind of freedom, you should be on Android). Opera Coast is made for simplicity, ease of use, and relaxation, so you can lean back and enjoy fresh content. It's OK to give up some control once in a while. Relax. Deep breaths.
My point about innovation isn't to build a lot of native features, there's nothing wrong with keeping it light and simple and customizable only with extensions, it's to try something different with the main ones instead of doing a very slightly different version of all the other browser.

I'm not a fan of panels/sidebars, I was only recognizing it would be a good way to contain the tab outliner extension if it were to be adapted as a bookmarking one and I certainly don't want my tabs in one.
I didn't even know firefox had panels, I thought only the old opera did.

I only want vertical bookmarks because it's much easier to distinguish each items from the others and you can show a lot more that way. It's also less intrusive since most people use widescreen these days so there's more horizontal space than vertical one so an additional bar reducing the height of a webpage(even if it can be hidden) is more annoying than a vertical list.

Deleted User

Deleted User

I must agree with walsh44 in that Opera has failed badly with Bookmarks. Bookmarking in integral with web browsing and searching and
it was so easy in the versions not based on chrome (up to version 11 I think)
Why the hell should we have to mess about with chrome extension when something as fundamental as a good bookmarking manager is missing.

I like the speeddial which seemed to be easily transported to the new browser style why not the bookmark manager? That Bookmark bar is clumsy, hard to work with and occupies too much space on the desktop. Its pathetic.

Opera has lost a lot of loyal users because of the stubborn resistance not to provide an acceptable bookmark manager. I myself
have "Neater Bookmarks" installed in Opera 22 but see Firefoxs V26 bookmarking just like the old Opera Bookmark manager and now find myself now spending more time on FF than Opera.

lem729

lem729

Add Bookmark is not a Chrome extension, but an Opera Extension. While it's not perfect, it should help you, when you take the bookmark, place the bookmark in a folder, or to create a new folder for the bookmark. I agree with you that Opera should do more with the taking of a bookmark. The taking of the bookmark should give instantly the user the option on where to place it -- in what folder, subfolder, or creation of a new folder.

Add it as a feature suggestion for the suggestions box.