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Let's stop this war

  • There's nothing wrong with Opera using Blink as the layout engine. The wrong thing is that almost all features that make Opera Opera are missing.

    A little while ago, I filed about 20 bug reports for functionality that has gone missing, and ALL OF THEM HAVE BEEN BRUSHED OFF.

    I'm talking bookmarks, a proper preferences dialog, customization, popups being new windows, tabs not minimzing, not being able to close the last tab, missing gesture helper, site preferences gone, quick preferences (F12) gone, doubleclick-contextmenu gone, GUI no longer customizable, and so on. EVERYTHING has been brushed off. It's not that we have to wait until Opera finally decides to reimplement this, this stuff is going to be lost forever.

    Opera, you might wanna think about what you're doing. You destroy a browser, you destroy very things that make your browser any better than the rest. And yet you manage to release an update every fucking femtosecond.

    Might as well use Chrome with the mouse gestures extension. That's exactly Opera these days. Opera has absolutely nothing more to offer than that.

    Let's not stop this war.

    Let's coerce Opera to make a browser WORTHY of being called Opera.

  • However, there's another aspect involved that doesn't get much attention, which is a misunderstanding of why Opera (or any other commercial enterprise) creates a browser. Why does a "free" browser exist in the first place? Everything related to software costs something to create, to keep patched, and to support. So why place it out there for "free"? The simplest "commercial" answer is because the creator(s) derive something of substance from it being used; and the more folks that use it, the more revenue that is derived from that usage.
    Explain Chrome, MSIE, Firefox, UC Browser, Maxton, Dolphin then. Every browser is free, that's just the way it works. The fact that an organization has to find some way around it to make money, is hardly my problem.

    Opera might license their layout engine to third parties... Oh wait. They've stripped themselves of that ability, too.

    In essence, it's not about the feature bells and whistles per se contained in the browser, it's about growing its "market share" (which equates to raw browser usage). Sometimes a "free" browser might be considered a "loss-leader" because it enhances or encourages users to also employ other of the creator's software that is paid for (either by the user or his device maker/seller); sometimes the browser contains elements that result in click-count or usage revenue that is paid like royalties back to the browser maker (preferred search engines, pre-loaded "favorites", pre-placed content, ads, etc); sometimes a combination of all of these exists.
    Opera has created an adience of powerusers for itself, and by crippling the browser they've essentially said "bye bye" to their powerusers, because quite frankly Opera 13 and later are a fucking disgrace to any poweruser. Opera might not realize that adding features doesn't inhibit the use by novice users, and Opera certainly doesn't realize that powerusers sometimes have an audience of their own to persuade into using Opera. This has stopped, of course.

  • Using Chromium there are some things that are impossible to do it. One of them is email build. Using Chromium implies limitations.

    Its to much work and they don't want to. That's all.
    They did not create a simple bookmark manager (and thats surely possible with chromium...) because its to much work so you can guess how long an email client would need.

  • Ah, I see the rabble is out and about spreading lies, distortions and misinformation. One has to wonder why they continue to haunt a place they appear to hate so vehemently. Opera Presto is dead in terms of future development. Opera Blink is the new Opera. DEAL WITH IT.

  • Opera Blink is the new Opera * in name only *.

    I fixed that for you.

  • What I find odd about this is people telling me opera is free. No it's not. For a start some of us have been here since opera was a paid for browser. And we Paid for it. Sure in later years to try and increase market share it became an adware supported browser and later a free to download browser. But this isn't an entitlement born out of some ephemeral I should have it because it's what I want.

    Us oldskool users who bought the product supported, contributed and in many real ways paid for the development of the software and it's updates to now say to users like me who've been here for a long, long, long time and paid and paid for the browsers development tough and screw you we're not actually going to a) provide the product we've paid for b) we're actually going to reverse years of development to go with a smaller and in many real ways worse feature set is frankly appalling.

    It's what happens when corporates ruin a good idea for the sake of profit.

  • FYI and worth noting up til opera 12 user share and market share was increasing significantly. Now, well the majority and it is the majority of opera users visiting sites are still doing so in 12 not blink. So that's the lions share of the users on the system not moving to the new browser...

    Windows 8 anyone?

    So when we don't move over because if we want to use chromium we'll use it why would we use blink or for that matter dragon or any of the other subversions of the main core browser what happens to your revenue stream then when your user base plummets... Still at least when opera becomes a used to be a browser maker all the newer blink based users will in fact have something to transfer too, unlike us sadly...

    It's a disgusting way to treat a long term user base and shows how one day blink users you too will be treated when the next CEO or dev team decide to just banjax this engine for the next flavour of the month 'beta'.

  • Ultimately presto should be O/S'ed to allow those who want to to dev it and make it their own. Opera could always MIT or such license it to reclaim those features should it want to option a return to the presto OS engine.

    Why not do this, unless they are genuinely scared of creating a competitor to their own blink...

  • @garfieldlechat What I find odd about this is people telling me opera is free. No it's not. For a start some of us have been here since opera was a paid for browser. And we Paid for it. Sure in later years to try and increase market share it became an adware supported browser and later a free to download browser. But this isn't an entitlement born out of some ephemeral I should have it because it's what I want.
    Us oldskool users who bought the product supported, contributed and in many real ways paid for the development of the software and it's updates to now say to users like me who've been here for a long, long, long time and paid and paid for the browsers development tough and screw you we're not actually going to a) provide the product we've paid for b) we're actually going to reverse years of development to go with a smaller and in many real ways worse feature set is frankly appalling.
    It's what happens when corporates ruin a good idea for the sake of profit.

    You got years and years of more than fair value for what you paid -- which was not a lot. I know because I paid too. What would make you think you had somehow a lifetime's rights to Opera, freezing it as it was, and without the company's ability to change. I mean, -- smile -- really? Is that what you thought?

  • As for the economic side I think Blackbird did it to perfection, although it does beg the question of the aim of Opera releasing a free browser to grow its market share then would not splitting their community due to removal of features not lower the market share swiftly ?

    An accurate response would require access to the desktop market analysis and projections on which Opera based their ultimate decisions, which none of us humble users have. However, just as an illustration, if Opera hopes and aims to attract ~6% of the Chrome/IE/Firefox "naive" user universe with a redesigned, refocused browser, and if all the prior Old Opera ~3% market share comprised expert/loyal Opera users, that would result in roughly a net doubling of market share and share-related revenue. From a business standpoint, that would result in remarkable growth, even if it cost Opera all its prior expert/loyal user base.

    On the other hand, all the design/upgrade effort in the world would be wasted in terms of revenue growth if the vast number of users not already using Opera don't really care about the features/options added by such a design effort.

    The real question is where the user market truly lies in terms of browser features and configurability profile that would attract a sufficiently large share of currently non-Opera users so as to result in major revenue growth for the browser maker. I don't have that answer, and one person's conjecture is of little more value than the next person's. However, the expert/loyal user base is of the belief that their features and browser profile needs are being abandoned in a futile attempt to chase market share, and that is the source of their outcry. Unfortunately for such users, what really matters is the viewpoint that Opera has, since they're the one footing the bill for the development and the browser itself - so they call the shots.

    Again, I don't have to like the situation, but I do have to deal with the reality of it. I suggest others do likewise.

  • Opera Software ASA is free to do whatever they want with its browser. If they chose to left Presto, DEAL WITH IT. There is nothing you can do about it.

  • The funny thing is your so called war would probably be long over if not the same 4-5 people start defending Opera 15+ in any of the useless whining threads 😉

  • I know. All there would be would be a trashing of Opera. And when new people come online to try it, they'd read the forum and be poisoned before they took a fair look. There are a lot of people who do like the new Opera. Usually, people unhappy populate the forums.

  • I think the opposite.
    Whining would be uninteresting if theres no reaction.

  • Hay, it keeps it at the top of the list, you wouldnt want it all the way on the bottom or page 2 would you ?

  • WTF!!!!
    Always people hijacking all threads with anger about new Opera, with dumb wishes about gifting Operas source code and browser patents to OpenSource!

    My hint 4 u: Discuss such nonsense in the Lounge at https://forums.opera.com/category/26/lounge

    PLEASE!
    If you want to troll, get an account at 4chan. There you can fullfill all your strange wishes.

    =:(

  • Lets see the bright side - do you know another piece of software where people still complaining about there discontinuation after now nearly a year ?

    Must have been a very good software with no alternatives 😉

  • Good point. And the new product is also very very good. It's just different pluses and minuses compared to the old product. Opera is a talented company. The little engine that could . . . Give the new browser a chance, findkfn . . . 🙂

  • Ah, I see the rabble is out and about spreading lies, distortions and misinformation. One has to wonder why they continue to haunt a place they appear to hate so vehemently. Opera Presto is dead in terms of future development. Opera Blink is the new Opera. DEAL WITH IT.
    `Lueshino

    This is a prime example of missing the point. The Thread's name is "Let's Stop this War" yet calling people you disagree with rabble is not going to help that cause, as a matter of fact it very well could inflame the problem. Equally you state that they are spreading lies, distortions, and misinformation, yet offer no corrections or state what aspects of where the claims are false while providing citations to the accurate information. Also the Prestovists or old power users, do not hate Opera if they did then they would just walk already. It is simply that they loved Opera when it was Presto, and would like to see what they loved return in one fashion or another.

    @Ersi

    I think in general terms the Widgets failed to gain traction and a mass following of development from the user base. I could of course be incorrect about the three features your mentioning as they were not features I used; however I believe that when they phased out Widgets they implemented extensions at about the same time. As for Unite I believe they only changed its name or Turbo or possibly Dragonfly ? As for voice I remember its addition but do not recall it being functional the few times I attempted to play with it. Either or you have at least started something I was hoping someone would do which is helping to list all features of the Presto versions of Opera. As I think that with a viable list of all the power features found in Presto, Lem729 could potentially offer a list of extensions that may be able to at least mimic those features for 20 and help calm some of the anger and disappointment due to the loss of those native features.

  • @Lem729
    Sorry your my current extension Guru, so I may have just signed you up for a horribly tedious task.

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