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Let's get right down to it, Opera Devs: Where, on God's green earth, are BOOKMARKS??
That's it. That's the question. It's the only freakin question that matters right now, because it boils down to whether you listen to your users or not. Bookmarks. It is the single feature that EVERY browser MUST have. Every browser EXCEPT Opera Next, and that includes mobile browsers on smartphones, support bookmarks.
I'll be strait up. Stash is the biggest freakin joke I've EVER seen. It is a massive waste of space. The previews never really show you any useful content on a site...usually just a pointless header bar and a menu bar. Worst of all, however, is the fact that Stash can only store so many things before the oldest items fall off the list.
I use bookmarks. They are probably the one feature of every browser I find UTTERLY ESSENTIAL. Now, I'm pretty pissed off in general about the hackjob evisceration of Opera that you developers have made of the product recently. You utterly gutted it, and eliminated every feature that mattered...on order to stuff Chrome inside an Opera skin. That was the biggest mistake you could have possibly made, and clearly demonstrated you guys don't have the first bloody clue as to WHY your users one used your browser (or why they will be flocking in droves to other browsers if something in the development plans for Opera doesn't change, soon!)
So, I'm pretty pissed off in general about the demise of Opera as a useful browser. But when it comes to bookmarks, I'm furious. People, LOTS and LOTS of Opera-using people, have been asking for bookmarks since five minutes after Opera 15 first hit the bitstreams of the internet. BOOKMARKS!! Your Stash just doesn't cut it. Stash never will cut it. Stash is one of the most utterly useless features I've ever seen added to a browser. The fact that you guys wasted time on Stash, and are STILL IGNORING your user's demand for regular old, folder-based, hierarchical BOOKMARKS, just has me FURIOUS.
So, what's the deal? What's up Opera devs? Where the hell are your heads shoved these days that were up to Opera 21, or 22 now, and your still puttering around with experimental features that no one even knows whether they want or not? Why don't we have bookmarks yet? Are you guys even CONSIDERING putting bookmarks back in? When will we have bookmarks? I mean, this isn't the most complicated of features here. It's a hierarchical folder structure, within which you can place bits of metadata containing site titles, the URL, and a few extra bits of data such as last visited and last updated. That's it. Super simple, guys! SO WHERE THE HELL ARE BOOKMARKS?!?
(And, because you guys don't seem to be the brightest bunch...where the hell are all the rest of the features that were once staples of the Opera UI, like tab groups? Because, you know, bookmarks is just the beginning of the list of features you guys are going to get an earful about if you just keep sitting around experimenting with wacko features like Stash that no one has asked for and no one wants.)
On the menu, Settings, User Interface, Show the bookmarks bar.
my solution for opera 20 is to use a different browser, i don't need a safari clone..
btw, opera 12 has bookmarks and is my default for machines that still have it..
The bookmarks bar is just not as convenient as the old bookmark system. For example you can not search within your bookmarks in the new system.
You cannot search within your bookmarks
True, but that's not what this thread asked. Jrista seems to be working under the delusion that the new Opera has no bookmarks.
For at least 90% of the time, you don't need to search, you know where you put them, so it's just a matter of opening the right folder, and scrolling down to select it. The new bookmarks bar lets you sort alphabetically, and drag and drop bookmarks and folders around, which is better than the old bookmarks bar.
you can not search within your bookmarks in the new system.
There is the extension Bookmark Search for that.
On the menu, Settings, User Interface, Show the bookmarks bar.
Really!! I mean really!!!? The joke is where is the menu in 20?
It keeps going to the silly tablet view, no tabs, no bookmarks, no nothing
except the page you are on hit "esc" and it's back for a few minutes until
its gone again for some reason.
The problem with bookmarks are
- The import looses the hierarchy
after fighting with it and actually getting my bookmarks back from my
backups and trying again and again I got one GIANT list. That I had to sort.
- not immediately available when you look for it.
(I cant get the list view down the side like I used to I like it like that)
- not linked to opera link
He (jrista) is right the stash is shit (hey I know being rude is not nice
but being polite does not seem to help here )
the speed dial is another load of F###### S###
The real problem is that opera link has always been buggy and not
carried bookmarks over properly.
So when the F##### management idiots looked at bookmark history and changes
it looked like no one was using bookmarks and changing them all that
much. So the dev management decide to drop an "unused" feature.
"Touch" is the new wizz bang and if they have a problem making it work with
touch they drop it. bookmarks with touch is not easy to do right.
I had the same problem when they went from command line
to GUI. I still open a command box and "ren *.log *.bak just
can't do it and others from a GUI.
Today I uninstalled opera and will probably be using firefox from now on.
good luck jrista if you stick with opera you're going to need it
- The import looses the hierarchy
Pesala, trying to force your way of tracking links on everyone else, and calling them delusional because they expect more, doesn't get you anywhere. You can call something bookmarks, but just because that word is in the name doesn't make the feature actually bookmarks.
A bookmarks bar is not what I need, pesala. I need BOOKMARKS. Full blown, fully featured, hierarchical, searchable, structured bookmarks. A bookmarks bar is even less useful than stash!!! Why doesn't anyone in the Opera camp get this? Stash, speed dial, bookmarks bar. These are all USELESS for storing bookmarks, BECAUSE they are flat and linear. That isn't bookmarks. That's a half-assed attempt at appeasement, an attempt to shut up their customers while the Opera dev team pitters about with a bunch of useless new experimental features (Like STASH!) that no one wants.
People who have been browsing for decades, need fully featured bookmarks. I have thousands of them in Opera 12. I'd use Opera 12 for everything...except the Opera devs ditched Presto. Presto is no longer modern-web ready. I can't develop with it, I can't browse many modern sites with it. So, I'm either stuck using FireFox, which is exceptionally insecure these days, Chrome (which I've hated for a long time, and I've never liked Google anyway), Internet Explorer (ok, but it's about the most feature anemic browser around), or Opera Next. None of the options are really great, however at least EVERY other option EXCEPT Opera has true bookmarks.
I don't need just another flat, linear, limited list of links. I need bookmarks, hierarchical, searchable, exportable, importable (including from Opera 12 bookmark exports), fully featured without limitations. It's an utter joke that Opera can't wrap their head around that concept, and they keep wasting time on useless alternatives like Stash or a "bookmarks bar", which is really just stash in a bar...just as useless.
The Bookmarks Bar is not flat and linear. You can have folders and subfolders on it. You can sort folders, you can drag and drop bookmarks and folders.
On installing Opera 20, bookmarks are imported from Opera 12 or 11. Enabling the Bookmarks Bar will show those that were available on the Bookmarks Bar in Opera 12 or 11. Using the Bookmark Import will let you import other folders onto the Bookmarks Bar, or into Speed Dial as speed dial folders. Sessions can also be imported.
I am not trying to force anything on anybody. The way things are will not change by ranting and shouting. Bookmarks like in Opera 12 are not a priority. You can like it or lump it — it's not going to change any time soon. If you cannot wrap your head around that, that is your problem.
What you need is not bookmarks, which you already have in Opera 12 or earlier, but anger management or meditation classes.
I agree with you that Opera for Blink needs lots more features before it's a viable alternative to what I am using now, though bookmarks are not a priority for me — I am OK with using speed dial and the Bookmarks Bar. However, ranting about what it lacks won't change anything. The developers will add what they think is most important first, not what you or I think is important. For some other users, a Linux version is the top priority — for me it's keyboard shortcuts and gestures, for you its bookmarks:
I have Opera 20. It did not import any of my Opera 12 bookmarks. The bookmark bar has no bookmarks on it, and the + button only adds more links. Right clicking does not seem to do anything. I see no way to add folders. I can apparently drag links to the bookmark bar to add individual links, but that's it. I'd also note that there is no way to easily add links to the bookmark bar. You have to either add them manually, or drag and drop them. Dragging and dropping links is a pain in the ass all too frequently. When I ask for proper bookmarks, I mean PROPER bookmarks, with the standard way of adding them: Such as right-clicking the page background and clicking "Add to bookmarks", or right-clicking a link to do the same. We aren't just talking a little limited here. The bookmarks bar feature of 20 is EXTREMELY limited.
What you want or what you are ok with doesn't concern me. People, lots of people, not just me, have been asking for bookmarks since Opera 15. In every one of the opera next blog entries, like the one you linked, there are multiple people asking for bookmarks. Not a bookmarks bar, REAL bookmarks. Those requests have been ignored for 7 versions. That's bull. Sorry, but sometimes anger is entirely justified. Asking nicely has gotten the people who need bookmarks, which as I've said before is an exceptionally BASIC version of EVERY browser, has gotten us nowhere. So now I'm angry. Suck it up, bub, and take your satisfaction elsewhere. I'm not satisfied, and I want to be heard.
If the BB in Opera 12 had no bookmarks then the BB in Opera 20 won't either.
To add a folder to the BB use the Bookmarks Importer.
Right-click on the BB to add a new folder.
Ctrl D will easily add bookmarks to the BB
What lots of people have been shouting about for six months doesn't make any difference, except to their own blood-pressure and sense of well-being. Anger is never any good. Justification only makes it worse — self-righteous anger make you suffer even longer than the usual impatience and frustration of disappointment due to unrealistic expectations.
I won't accept your anger — it remains with you. I am happy because I am still using 12.16 or 11.64. (~_~) Don't be a sucker bud, take your dissatisfaction elsewhere.
Pesala, this is the only place my anger might have an impact on Opera development. As for having "unrealistic" expectations, I believe it is ENTIRELY REALISTIC to EXPECT that EVERY browser SHOULD have bookmarks, full and proper bookmarks, not some half-assed excuse like Stash or half-implemented flop like the bookmarks bar.
So sorry, but I have completely realistic expectations, as do everyone else who've been asking about full bookmarks since Opera Next was released. The UNREALISTIC state of affairs is that those requests have been ignored for so long.
The real state of affairs is that most users don't have that many bookmarks, and can manage fine with what is already available. Stash was there from the beginning, so they're not spending any time on that at the moment. The Bookmarks Bar is now fully implemented and enabled by default.
The devs have not ignored anything, except perhaps the ranting and shouting, which they should ignore.
They have other priorities, which are not mine either. I don't care about a Linux version, or synchronisation, but some do:
and can manage fine with what is already available
A huge fixed bar is not a thing that I can manage fine. What is wrong with the old "Start bar"?
If you don't find the option "show the bookmarks bar" in the settings, you have to do this first:
- copy in the adress field: opera://flags/#quick-access-bar
this brings you to the super secret experimental feature "Enables a bookmarks bar below the address toolbar."
choose "enabled" in dropdown menu. default(enabled) seems not to work
now go to settings> User Interface. The check the box "Show the bookmarks bar". It should be there now
On the menu"
Menu????? What Menu, there is no Menu.That silly button in the upper left that is barely visible and what show after you click it is NO Menu!
BTW and OT; This childish war between Opera and FF with who has the highest version number is beyond ridiculous.
All of this makes one want to use Idiot Exploiter.
I completely agree with jrista. The new Operas lack a ton of features that made the old Opera 12 unique, in an effort to appeal to the Firefox and Chrome users, I guess. I think that kind of approach is foolish, since those people are not going to stop to use their browsers to use a watered down copy like the new Operas are. If you want to add new stuff to try to appeal to those people, that's fine by me, but doing that by removing the features that your users loved in the first place and by forcing them to use the new lackluster features, like that terrible bookmark bar, is a terrible idea cause what that makes is us to go use their browsers instead. And that's a shame.
I've been a long time Opera user, but 12 is becoming obsolete, so I'll have to upgrade to a new browser soon. That being said, I'm not going to use the new Opera as it is now. I'd love to see the old bookmark menu back, the old downloads page back, instead of that terrible Firefox download box thing, and customization options back, since I want to put buttons like the home button where I want them to be. Otherwise I'll just go to Chrome, because why would I use the new Opera when it lacks everything I liked about Opera anyway?
I hope you guys hear us old users suggestions so I can keep using Opera in the future.
jrista, I've been following your posts and have to thank you for expressing my views exactly. About the anger, I can't understand why everyone is not furious with Opera.
Besides these recent setbacks, there's the age-old problem of Opera's huge number of errors. I've been especially frustrated time and time again when Opera would fix a problem only to have the problem reappear in a newer release, and again, and again. What does this day about Opera's software management? Are there competing groups of Opera programmers, each trying to swap the other group's fixes out and their own old code back in?
I don't know where to turn. I also have thousands of bookmarks, with wonderful hierarchies and dummy bookmarks used to assign attributes to folders. Searching in Opera, when it works, has always been wonderful. For example, I could search and find all products (each product in its own folder) which use a particular battery (the battery being indicated by one of my dummy attribute bookmarks). For this to work, when bookmarks match you must be able to see the hierarchy each bookmark is contained in.
Such searches, which show the containing hierarchy of each found bookmark, along with keyboard cut-and-paste of multiple bookmarks and folders enables easy maintenance of such a large bookmark file.
It appears that this strategy, which has served me so well for numerous applications, is dead.
I have absolutely no faith left in Opera, and as quickly as I can find another browser with a rich feature set, I will bolt. Firefox's strategy, minimal features and thousands of extensions, will never work. Nothing will be ever done well, done completely, or be guaranteed to be there tomorrow.
Anyway, thanks for your efforts. Unfortunately I doubt Opera has enough intelligence to listen.
I doubt if Opera developers have so little intelligence to follow what a small minority of users want and demand, rather than what most users need.