The impending demise of Opera?

jrista

jrista

For everyone saying that you can just get addons or plugins, your generally missing the point. I don't want to have to hunt around and dig into the bowls of plugin sites to find something that kinda sorta maybe might possibly do what I need, if I stand on my right big toe while patting my head when the full moon is out.

Opera just used to WORK. It had EVERYTHING. It was eminently CUSTOMIZABLE. It was BLAZING FAST. It was EASY. I chose Opera for all of those things.

Today? Opera doesn't even do BOOKMARKS!! I mean, OMG!! If there is ANY feature that EVERY browser MUST have, its BOOKMARKS!

And Opera Software can't even get that right. I've been asking for bookmarks, along with thousands of other people, since Opera 15. Were now, what, Opera 21? What a joke! This company has completely LOST everything it had going for it with Opera 12 and prior. No one who used Opera gave a bloody damn about the browser engine. They gave a damn about Opera...that unique little browser that did it all, did it all well, and usually did fancy new things first.

The Opera of today is a pale, pathetic little shadow of the shadow of what it once used to be. There is absolutely NOTHING compelling about Opera today. I mean, a lot of people complain about Windows 8...but that is only because Windows 8 was change. When it comes to Windows 8, things changed, but they did not LOSE any real functionality. The old form of some functionality morphed into a new form, but it was all still there. Microsoft didn't decimate then decimate again the features and functionality of their Windows operating system...they transformed it, made it new, and today, I absolutely LOVE Windows 8. It took me two days to get used to the start screen, and I can still do everything I used to do and more.

Opera? Opera can't even do bookmarks!!!!!!!!

A Former User

Yes. Opera 20 does have bookmarks — by default as a Bookmarks Bar, or you can install a plugin to add a menu. Development of Bookmarks Manager, side panel, etc., is not a priority. Stash is also bookmarks, as are speed dials.

http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/02/opera-21-today/#comment-1256495634

I could manage happily with just the Bookmarks bar, if I had the customising options to modify keyboard shortcuts, menus, mouse gestures, and toolbar buttons. I have over 1,000 bookmarks. The menu is something I seldom use — the side panel I use more frequently.

Import/Export of bookmarks is an essential feature to encourage migration for others, but I never use it now since I don't use other browsers — only Opera 11 or 12 (and 20 for testing purposes).

lem729

lem729

pesala, there is an App, Keyboard Control for Opera, which provides some customization of keyboard shortcuts. Some of the shortcuts seem to work for me. A few don't. There are mouse gestures summarized in the help menu of Opera 20, though they are someone limited. 1000 bookmarks would be a lot One needs a bookmarks extension/plugin to deal with that.

Jrista, on bookmarks, set up the personal toolbar by going to settings and putting a check in "show the bookmarks bar" Then add to your browser a bookmarks extension for bookmarks you want to show on by clicking on something for a vertical display. I'm using the Opera extension Tidy Bookmarks and it seems pretty good to me, though there are other choices.

On your complaint about going back and forth to the next tab, and the one before (you say you have a "critical need for it" and can't do it, you can go forward to the next tab by going, control tab, and backward with control, shift, tab. So you can do, exactly what you complain that you can't do. You do not have to go through all the tabs to return to the original one. Also, there's an Opera extension, The Switcher, where you can easily use the keyboard to switch between tabs.

On Tab previews, you might look into the Opera extension, "Download Chrome Extension," which makes it possible to use Chrome extensions. The Chrome extension that may (or may not) be useful to you is "TooManyTabs for Chrome" which gives an ability to see all of your open tabs (a birdseye view, with previews?). Anyway, it's something to explore if you haven't already.

A Former User

I should perhaps mention that according to the most recent financial report, the number of users on the new Opera versions is outgrowing Opera 12 and older. Users on the new versions also seem to use the browser more, and fewer of them stop using it over time. In addition to that, the company is profitable and revenues are growing.

There's no reason to worry about Opera going away any time soon.

We'll keep working on the new Opera, but people who still don't like it can still use Opera 12.

lem729

lem729

I've shifted and made Opera 20 my default browser, but still have Opera 12.16 for special occasions, and some of its unique features.

werewolf

werewolf

yeah, i'm still using opera 12 too, firefox as my primary - but FF has become very buggy lately and i read that it is the least secure browser. I can't get IE to work properly for me for some reason. Chrome is fast, but I need a browser with a bookmark sidebar, like opera 12 or FF, for my 4,000 bookmarks. What to do?

jrista

jrista

Pesala, stash and speed dial are NOT bookmarks. I don't know how much I can stress that. I have thousands of bookmarks in Opera 12. Stash is a joke, as it can only hold a couple dozen links before they drop off the bottom. Speed dial is just a fancy way to start a new tab with the option of launching into one of a few very commonly used sites. That is not bookmarks. Bookmarks are a hierarchical, folder-based structure where one can store and organize as many links as they want, in any fashion they want, that's searchable and cross-referenced, WITHOUT LIMITATIONS.

It's the limitations bit that has me so pissed off. Opera Next is nothing but limitations. Limits everywhere. I'm sick and tired of losing the sites I want to track because they fall off the bottom of Stash. Not to mention the fact that stash is the worst means of ORGANIZING the links I'm interested in keeping around EVER.

Again, this is THE MOST BASIC feature of EVERY browser...except Opera Next, that is.

A Former User

The Bookmarks Bar is a hierarchical, folder based structure, where one can store and organise as many links as one wants, in any order that one wants, but it's not searchable, and can only be sorted one-time alphabetically. It's not without its limitations, but it is a viable solution to the problem of finding previously bookmarked sites.

Stash is not a joke. Its a valid solution to keeping temporary bookmarks for a particular project, that you probably want to discard later. It's not something I would use, if I used Opera 20, which I do not, but it is a useful addition for some users. In the previous browser, I create a session for this kind of use, then delete the session when it's no longer needed.

I don't know why you're even using Opera 20 if you hate it so much. If I come across a site that is broken in both Opera 11.64 and Opera 12.16 I might try opening it in Opera 20, but I would more likely use Firefox for that site.

eyzndasky

eyzndasky

Opera is doing well financially and isn't going away soon but isn't that the way you'd report it IF you weren't doing so good? Opera as we knew it is dead and the new Opera will struggle on for a few months but within 24 months will be absorbed by the Google team. It's not new, it's not innovative but is only a second class clone of Google Chrome. Die hard Opera hangers on will swear it's the best thing since sliced bread until Google takes it over!

granttlc

granttlc

@jrista (if he or she is still here)

As a long time Opera user, since version 8 or so, I too feel the pain of Opera's reinvention, despite my still using it on both my work and home machines as my primary browser. HOWEVER, your approach to the problem, the sturm and drang and "OMG YOU SUCKK!!!!", is only going to antagonise people and presumably lead to a ban.

I also want to take issue with some of your comments regarding the supposedly saintly nature of version 12.

12 was a good browser - however it was NOT perfect. While it had many features that internet users wanted, many of them were lacking in features and functionality. True, flexible password management, for instance, didn't come along until Opera finally allowed true Extensions. It was the same for ad-blocking. M2 was decent as a basic mail client but I had the strong impression that managing the mailbox file, with its thousands of archived messages, was leading to performance issues across the entire browser, most notably opening and closing. And last but not least, BitTorrent functionality was so basic compared to full-blown clients it was pitiful.

You talk a lot about Bookmarks. Frankly, I'm glad they're gone. I had hundreds of them, going back about a decade, making them a nightmare to manage and keep current. I was relying on 3rd party tools to verify broken links but the work of managing them was a bit of a drag. Honestly, I was glad they went away. I'm using the speed dial and not really missing having the bloat of an unwieldy library. I get that for those that liked them their loss is a bitter pill to swallow, but I see it as a niche concern. Mainstream users either won't care or will simply adjust as I have.

The lack of site compatibility may not have directly been Opera's fault in most cases, although I firmly believe their ethos of trying to adjust the web to suit their approach was a nigh-religious motivation that ignored the practicalities of browsing the web. That might have been okay were it not for the fact that this devotion came at the at the expense of the experience for every Opera user. This, more than any other problem with Opera, was a serious problem that needed something as drastic as this engine change to happen. Like many others I presumed most of the functionality would transfer across to version 15, and was fairly horrified when 15 emerged as basically a skin over a Chrome shell, but it was IMMEDIATELY apparent how much smoother the experience of visiting sites - the primary purpose of a browser - had become. And it has freed the developers from having to provide endless hacks and workarounds for sites that clearly didn't see any need to kowtow to Opera's tiny percentage of the market, presumably caused by Opera's problems browsing the most popular sites: the ultimate catch-22 situation.

Several versions later we're still awaiting the return of many beloved features. Some may never return. MyOpera is gone. The brilliant, free Fastmail based mail service is gone. Opera is now something very different from the browser and ethos of old, and it easy to be dismayed at the loss of something truly unique, even angry. Personally, I'm hoping customisable mouse gestures return soon so I can once again open closed pages with a quick flick upwards. It angers me that I have to rely on a process for this vital function far slower than I'm used to. I also really liked the expandable, groupable tab thumbnails. But ranting and raving and shouting and insulting will not, WILL NEVER, get you what you want, and nor should it.

Your choice is simple. Live with the situation, and work WITH Opera to help bring missed features back. Or move on and spare the rest of us your rudeness. Best of luck with what you decide.

A Former User

@granttlc

Good post. Ranting is useless. Constructive criticism is welcome.

If it becomes possible to customise mouse gestures, shortcuts, menus, and toolbars, or at least the first two, that will solve a lot of problems with the current iteration of Opera.

Reopen closed tab is now Ctrl Shift T — intuitive perhaps, since Ctrl T is New Tab, but Ctrl Z is a lot easier to use. If users can customise shortcuts, that immediately cuts through a lot of the resistance to change. We always had this before — they even included an Opera 9.20 Compatible keyboard setup when big changes were made to placate those migrating from other browsers.

Deleted User

Deleted User

April 2001 we got gestures. At that time it was the single most incredible improvement to my browsing experience... though having since migrated to Linux I find it more natural to hover my mouse and roll the wheel to switch tabs - not quite so easy with Opera... Tabs were amazing, later on I discovered joys like using multiple desktops driven by mouse gestures... Now I'm back with tabs on a single desktop, but sometimes using dual monitors.

With the appearance of 'easystroke' I have gestures which give me the familiar trail, which can be totally customisable to work with all applications (e.g. map an 'o' gesture to open opera, 'c' gesture to open chrome... handling tabs and windows for file browsers/web browsers in the same way as each other.

Now I'm being advised that the only way I am going to see text in my addressbar is if I change my desktop theme (currently I have white text in a white addressbar and often in search boxes on websites - but not in Chromium or Firefox).

The issue of open/closed source isn't a biggie for me - but this white text problem will not encourage me to change my theme to suit Opera, it will leave me using browsers which can use my theme... Blackmate on a Linux Mint desktop.

For a handful of people complaining about MyOpera disappearing - you have to understand that we're trying to cater for billions of users online and this forum is but a very tiny corner of a vast universe.

Let the Devs do what Devs do. Support them, criticize them, but don't rant. Everyone has their own workflow. Everyone has different needs.

In my opinion, there is no 'best' browser. They all suck, just as all operating systems suck. Sit in front of a Cray computer and try to get it to do what you want, you'll decide very quickly that it sucks more!

But we have awesome tools - Opera is one, Firefox is another, and.. erm is there another? Oh, nearly forgot Chromium/Chrome...

All great. Three Blind Mice - much better than having only 2 or 1.

A Former User

@eyzndasky

Opera is doing well financially and isn't going away soon but isn't that the way you'd report it IF you weren't doing so good? Opera as we knew it is dead and the new Opera will struggle on for a few months but within 24 months will be absorbed by the Google team.
Opera's financial results are open to anyone since it's a publicly traded company. Take a look at the investor information linked at the bottom of this page. Opera is not struggling financially, and the new Opera for desktop is growing nicely.

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@granttlc

The lack of site compatibility may not have directly been Opera's fault in most cases, although I firmly believe their ethos of trying to adjust the web to suit their approach was a nigh-religious motivation that ignored the practicalities of browsing the web.
This seems to be a common misconception. Presto was actually built from the ground up to be compatible with the real web. We did not expect the web to adapt to Opera.

stng

stng

If it becomes possible to customise mouse gestures, shortcuts, menus, and toolbars, or at least the first two, that will solve a lot of problems with the current iteration of Opera.

Their PR guys said that an extensive customizability won't return:
https://forums.opera.com/post/24105

A Former User

I read that too, but assigning shortcuts and gestures is not what I call extensive customisation. It is a basic requirement.

paspieproductions

paspieproductions

I don't like this attitude. I've been in and out of Opera since the 10.00 days, though I have been using it alot more heavily on my mobile devices. It is fantastic that they supported platforms like Symbian and Windows Mobile right up until the very end. However, I can see why they're trimming down their product lineup and removing alot of the excess.

As for ditching Presto, yes it was a smooth engine while it was relevant, but the fact remains that web developers don't subsidise web standards these days. They make sure sites will run on Chrome, Firefox and IE, everything else is not mission-critical. I also wonder whether Presto development was hitting a brick wall, and that the developers weren't able to adapt new technologies to it.

I can definitely see a future when the desktop version of Opera will cease to exist as a fully-fledged browser. I can also see the canning of any other browser versions they maintain that are based on the Chromium engine. However, the technologies they maintain for Opera Mini compression remain a valuable asset, and I can see that product being the main focus going forward. One of Mini's strengths is that it is based on Java, and that means it can be adapted for a diverse range of operating systems (heck, I've even got it running on my PSP). I can see Opera Mini being adapted for the desktop, all the core mobile OSes, other obsolete and obscure tech, embedded systems...you name it.

Today I use Firefox on both my Linux desktop, and my Android phone. Given how extendible and flexible it is, even with the Gecko engine I can't justify using Opera with Presto today. There are too many compatibility issues that would persist even if development was continued. Yes Gecko is slower, but computers keep getting faster so I don't see it as a huge issue.

Those are just my thoughts on the matters...

shiranaihito

shiranaihito

Firefox + FireGestures + AdBlock + NoScript = Salvation.

Try that combination. It feels basically like browsing with Opera v12, once you set up your gestures right. Here's a script for FireGestures that enables you to open links in new tabs just like you want to:

"[Hybrid] Open Link in New Tab / Open New Tab"

try {
FireGestures._performAction(event, "FireGestures:OpenLinkInFgTab");
}
catch (ex) {
FireGestures._performAction(event, "cmd_newNavigatorTab");
}

stng

stng

pesala

I read that too, but assigning shortcuts and gestures is not what I call extensive customisation. It is a basic requirement.

No it's not. There is no other browsers (other than Opera/Presto) that gives such type of customizability, at least "out of box". Also:

An average user never customize browser's keyboard shortcuts and gestures.
Advanced settings (such as custom keyboard configuration) can frustrate an average user.
Customized shortcuts can cause conflicts with Google services.

shiranaihito

Firefox + FireGestures + AdBlock + NoScript = Salvation. Try that combination. It feels basically like browsing with Opera v12, once you set up your gestures right. Here's a script for FireGestures that enables you to open links in new tabs just like you want to:

I have Firefox with a 40+ extensions (in the role of secondary browser) but i am still missing a significant part of Opera 12's functionality/customizability that i need.

A Former User

There is no other browsers (other than Opera/Presto) that gives such type of customizability.

Which is the main reason I use Opera. That, and built-in email client.

So, as I said, assigning shortcuts is not what I call extensive customisation. Installing extensions just to view APNG or Exif data is what I call extensive customisation. Creating or modifying skins, hacking accounts ini to change the order of columns, hacking dialog.ini to change the appearance of dialogs, and many other tricks that Opera presto users have developed over the years are what I call extensive customisation.

lem729

lem729

On Opera's financial bottom line, discussed in this thread, it seems to have moved into Smart televisions.

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2014/03/20/rca-to-launch-opera-powered-smart-tvs/