Jon von Tetzchner, Opera's founder and former CEO spoke to The Register

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

The forums are in existence to HELP users with the browser. What part of that simple intention do you fail to understand. This is not a place to bitch, whine, complain, threaten, bully, and spit in another's face. The good thing is - it's all coming to an end (thank you, thank you). Hopefully whatever is left according to the ptb will be heavily moderated and complaints, whines, belly-aching, threats to abandon etc etc will be once and for all dealt with.
You can think whatever you like, fluxrev. Your attempts to put a more positive spin on your previous outrageous statements is laughable but I commend you for creativity. The truth is, I've wasted time by responding to you.

[stevenjcee]

stevenjcee last edited by

Originally posted by leushino:

The forums are in existence to HELP users with the browser. What part of that simple intention do you fail to understand. This is not a place to bitch, whine, complain, threaten, bully, and spit in another's face.

Some of you guys keep insisting that this is only to help users with technical problems, which is what some of you have taken on as your mission, (as well as castigating all those you deem worthy of your scorn), yet you are wrong & misguided, that is unless you aren't referring to Opera's own mission statement as to the purpose of this forum:

"Welcome to the Opera forums - a place for you to get in touch with other Opera users for discussions, troubleshooting, and sharing ideas. Opera employees are active in the forums and will sometimes respond to questions and comments."

So, discussing & sharing ideas is ALSO what this forum is about, and I didn't see anywhere, a provision for vigilantes to determine who's posts are worthy of existence in this forum.

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

Originally posted by leushino:

You can think whatever you like, fluxrev. Your attempts to put a more positive spin on your previous outrageous statements is laughable but I commend you for creativity.

Wow. After your unfathomable misinterpretation of my very clear point, I directed you right to the plain, clear truth of what had been said---and you still completely failed to see it!

EDITED TO SAY: I take it back: You're not smarter than this.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by leushino:

The truth is, I've wasted time by responding to you.

Given the 2312 comments you have written so far (many as smug and polemical as the ones in this thread), you must have a quite a lot of time on your hands.

Originally posted by leushino:

It will all be gone in a matter of 12 days and as has been mentioned -it doesn't matter anyway.

And in your case, this one-way trip into oblivion seems certainly cause for relieve.

However, I have the terrible feeling that you are already haunting Jon von Tetzchner vivaldi.net:
one 'JamesD' posts there, whose uses the same self-portrait icon as you.

Be warned, all who transfer there.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Gotta love the IGNORE function. Appears the peanut gallery are enjoying their final days in the sun. I have this mental image of rabid dogs, frothing at the... (sigh). Sleep tight, Gentlemen. :whistle:

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

Originally posted by leushino:

Gotta love the IGNORE function.

You can fool yourself with that one, leushino, but you're not fooling anyone else here. Defending Opera Blink every five minutes is your raison d'etre.

[biggerabalone]

biggerabalone last edited by

rafaelluik said:

"The switch to using Chromium was an engineering-led decision, not a management decision to cut costs".

yet then he said:

"I see it differently. Instead of investing endlessly in Presto ... the management chose to do heavy investment in the switch to Chromium"

interesting

[biggerabalone]

biggerabalone last edited by

Originally posted by leushino:

Gotta love the IGNORE function. Appears the peanut gallery are enjoying their final days in the sun. I have this mental image of rabid dogs, frothing at the... (sigh). Sleep tight, Gentlemen. :whistle:

by peanut gallery, i suppose you mean opera's loyal core users? you, as i recall in another thread, have just went over to internet explorer (sigh).

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

rafaelluik said:

"The switch to using Chromium was an engineering-led decision, not a management decision to cut costs".

yet then he said:

"I see it differently. Instead of investing endlessly in Presto ... the management chose to do heavy investment in the switch to Chromium"

interesting

So you can't imagine a situation where the engineers come up with an idea, decide to go with it and then the management agrees with them?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

rafaelluik said:

"The switch to using Chromium was an engineering-led decision, not a management decision to cut costs".

yet then he said:

"I see it differently. Instead of investing endlessly in Presto ... the management chose to do heavy investment in the switch to Chromium"

interesting

So you can't imagine a situation where the engineers come up with an idea, decide to go with it and then the management agrees with them?

For sure, I can imagine a situation where engineers came up with the idea for having a good reason to leave Opera ASA :left:

Besides, there is a management for each department.
Engineers have also their manager and you can only hope that the team tinkering on this shell has an engineer as manager :devil:

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Any interpretation is possible until you actually work in the company and see how its management really operates. While "past performance will not always provide a guarantee of future results", it often gives a pretty good clue - unless there's been a sudden shakeup or buyout. In some companies, an idea from engineering can climb all the way to the top, getting approval/sponsorship from management all the way. In other companies, 'ideas' come from marketing and are shoved down to engineering to "find a way", then a like-minded engineering manager pushes the idea back up the chain with the background support/sponsorship of marketing's management. I don't pretend to know which way Opera ASA operates on something of this magnitude... and I'll keep my peace on my guess.

[biggerabalone]

biggerabalone last edited by

rafaelluik
"So you can't imagine a situation where the engineers come up with an idea, decide to go with it and then the management agrees with them?"

you posted a link: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/02/18/opera-sheds-almost-100-employees-after-switching-to-webkit/#!wvz2l

in it it says:

"the 90-something employees that left Opera weren’t all developers that were unilaterally canned. Rather, some of the jobs at the Norwegian browser software company had simply become obsolete over the course of 2012 because of the switch from its proprietary rendering engine Presto to the open-source WebKit project".

"In fact, of the 90 people who left Opera, only about half were developers".

so, 45 developers/engineers became obsolete because they were specialists in the presto engine? surely these were not the ones that chose the new direction and then lost their jobs? martyred for webkit, that would be true belief.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User last edited by

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

so, 45 developers/engineers became obsolete because they were specialists in the presto engine?

Those who didn't left were probably specialists in the blink engine

[blackbird71]

blackbird71 last edited by

Originally posted by Krake:

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

so, 45 developers/engineers became obsolete because they were specialists in the presto engine?

Those who didn't left were probably specialists in the blink engine

Palace coup?

[A Former User]

A Former User last edited by

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

rafaelluik
"So you can't imagine a situation where the engineers come up with an idea, decide to go with it and then the management agrees with them?"

you posted a link: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/02/18/opera-sheds-almost-100-employees-after-switching-to-webkit/#!wvz2l

in it it says:

"the 90-something employees that left Opera weren’t all developers that were unilaterally canned. Rather, some of the jobs at the Norwegian browser software company had simply become obsolete over the course of 2012 because of the switch from its proprietary rendering engine Presto to the open-source WebKit project".

"In fact, of the 90 people who left Opera, only about half were developers".

so, 45 developers/engineers became obsolete because they were specialists in the presto engine? surely these were not the ones that chose the new direction and then lost their jobs? martyred for webkit, that would be true belief.

1. How much is "about half"?
2. How much was the total?
3. Not everyone was fired, I remember reading some people willfully left. And remember the rest of Haavard's comment, there were layoffs under Jon too!
4. It's stated the decision was led by engineers, but never that it was via democracy.

I don't know why you just can't accept this simple truth... The devs must be the most happy to drop the complex Opera 12 code and all the superfluous features they had to maintain. They weren't able to implement OOPP and hardware acceleration without breaking stuff and keeping it in an endless beta or rolling back, there wasn't a bright future for Opera 12 engines and maintaining its code either, not to mention the compatibility issues. Borrowing from Chromium is much easier.

[olli]

olli last edited by

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

I don't know why you just can't accept this simple truth... The devs must be the most happy to drop the complex Opera 12 code and all the superfluous features they had to maintain

It's weird how you draw the conclusion that they were happy seeing what they have worked on for years go to dev/null

[stevenjcee]

stevenjcee last edited by

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

I don't know why you just can't accept this simple truth... The devs must be the most happy to drop the complex Opera 12 code and all the superfluous features they had to maintain. They weren't able to implement OOPP and hardware acceleration without breaking stuff and keeping it in an endless beta or rolling back, there wasn't a bright future for Opera 12 engines and maintaining its code either, not to mention the compatibility issues. Borrowing from Chromium is much easier.

So, how does that account for the lack, after all this time, of many common features, like BOOKMARKS, various customization preferences, etc, when they've been part of Chrome for years? It can't be that hard to incorporate those things in to the new Chromium design, no?

[fluxrev]

fluxrev last edited by

Originally posted by StevenCee:

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

I don't know why you just can't accept this simple truth... The devs must be the most happy to drop the complex Opera 12 code and all the superfluous features they had to maintain. They weren't able to implement OOPP and hardware acceleration without breaking stuff and keeping it in an endless beta or rolling back, there wasn't a bright future for Opera 12 engines and maintaining its code either, not to mention the compatibility issues. Borrowing from Chromium is much easier.

So, how does that account for the lack, after all this time, of many common features, like BOOKMARKS, various customization preferences, etc, when they've been part of Chrome for years? It can't be that hard to incorporate those things in to the new Chromium design, no?

I think the answer to your first question is: "It doesn't---and it's not intended to". The claims by Blink's advocates---both here and at Opera ASA---that the new browser enables greater efficiency/leverage/productivity/freedom are not (at least, not necessarily) connected to a commitment or sense of obligation to use those new resources to implement specific features that the community of devoted Presto users (of which I have been one) believes are essential and/or easily accomplished.

[biggerabalone]

biggerabalone last edited by

rafaelluik
"1. How much is "about half"?
2. How much was the total?"

"the 90-something employees that left Opera weren’t all developers that were unilaterally canned. Rather, some of the jobs ... become obsolete ... because of the switch from its proprietary rendering engine Presto to the open-source WebKit project".

"In fact, of the 90 people who left Opera, only about half were developers".

-90 something is total. about half were developers. these presto developers became obsolete b/c of swich to webkit. context states that these were the unilaterally canned employees. dictionary definition: "Doing something unilaterally means it's done without the agreement or participation of other people it might affect".

rafaelluik
"The devs must be the most happy to drop the complex Opera 12 code and all the superfluous features they had to maintain. They weren't able to implement OOPP and hardware acceleration without breaking stuff and keeping it in an endless beta or rolling back, there wasn't a bright future for Opera 12 engines and maintaining its code either, not to mention the compatibility issues. Borrowing from Chromium is much easier".

true that the company was/is struggling financially to match the juggernaut of google. even if they made other choices regarding their business model, it would be hard to combat google's money. but the new opera developers will continue to add features to the webkit browser, and given time, will make it just as expensive to maintain (anything would be harder to maintain to the barebones webkit opera that was released). out of curiosity, does anybody know if the wii/nintendo browser is still presto, or did it also go webkit. and i wonder how much it cost to purchase the webkit code from the chromium project? was firefox (also open source) ever considered for opera? it seems to me that google doesn't like everyone adopting webkit, and will eventually use its money to redefine the internet in such a way as to make all the chrome clones struggle and fail. it might have been wiser to adopt firefox's gecko and take them on head-to-head, instead of hiding in their shadow?

[frenzie]

frenzie last edited by

Originally posted by biggerabalone:

does anybody know if the wii/nintendo browser is still presto, or did it also go webkit.

I don't know what kind of browser there is on the Wii U, but I wouldn't expect the Wii browser to receive updates (besides perhaps the occasional security update).