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Jon von Tetzchner, Opera's founder and former CEO spoke to The Register

  • Sez you. Mr. Cee has been a whiner from the get-go. He has never made use of the Help forums in the way in which they were meant to be used but rather ragged on Opera's decisions and those who attempted to provide an explanation (as sketchy as that might be). I could care less what you happen to think fluxrev. If you don't like my posts, IGNORE them. It's really quite a simple process. Furthermore, YOU are simply a member here (as am I) and your opinion means nothing more nor less than my own. You've been here for a few weeks whereas I've been here for 11 years (and in reality, since 1999 when I bought my first copy of Opera). What I'm trying to say is: honestly... I don't care what you think. Oh... and spare me the words from the Good Book. I believe it says something about "Judge not, lest ye be judged." And from your remarks that is exactly what you have done in regards to my previous posts. You see, fluxrev, if you're going to level an accusatory finger at me, bear in mind that three others point directly back at you. :p

  • The interesting thing is: of the approximately 330 million Opera users about 300 million still use Opera 12.

    Very interesting indeed.

  • Originally posted by leushino:

    If you don't like my posts, IGNORE them. It's really quite a simple process.

    Yes, it is. So, why do you find it so very difficult to do it?

  • Originally posted by leushino:

    If you do not like my posts, IGNORE them. It is really quite a simple process.

    Originally posted by fluxrev:

    Yes, it is. So, why do you find it so very difficult to do it?

    Exactly Leushino, and you and the other couple "long-termers" (as if none of us are, as well), are the ones constantly ragging on everyone. And proof of your own delusional importance, is that you are so completely full of sh*t, attempting to judge whether I've made "proper use" of the forums. You sir an idiot of the first degree, for I've tried plenty of the varied, less-than-great, & "sketchy" (as you yourself depict them) suggestions offered, plus I've observed the shifting, even contradictory passing along of information, as if you & Pissala, and others, have some inside line on what's happening.

    Plus, as I've pointed out before you & your crew's narrow definition of what is "proper use" of the help forum, is simply WRONG, and at odds with what Opera states it to be! So, get on with your blown up self-importance, and if you don't like what others post, then simply STFU....... No need to tell us what to do.

  • Originally posted by fluxrev:

    Originally posted by leushino:

    If you don't like my posts, IGNORE them. It's really quite a simple process.

    Yes, it is. So, why do you find it so very difficult to do it?

    But I (unlike you) DON'T dislike reading your stuff or Mr. Cee's noise. Ergo: no need to use that function. :p

  • Originally posted by StevenCee:

    Originally posted by leushino:

    If you do not like my posts, IGNORE them. It is really quite a simple process.

    Originally posted by fluxrev:

    Yes, it is. So, why do you find it so very difficult to do it?

    Exactly Leushino, and you and the other couple "long-termers" (as if none of us are, as well), are the ones constantly ragging on everyone. And proof of your own delusional importance, is that you are so completely full of sh*t, attempting to judge whether I've made "proper use" of the forums. You sir an idiot of the first degree, for I've tried plenty of the varied, less-than-great, & "sketchy" (as you yourself depict them) suggestions offered, plus I've observed the shifting, even contradictory passing along of information, as if you & Pissala, and others, have some inside line on what's happening.

    Plus, as I've pointed out before you & your crew's narrow definition of what is "proper use" of the help forum, is simply WRONG, and at odds with what Opera states it to be! So, get on with your blown up self-importance, and if you don't like what others post, then simply STFU....... No need to tell us what to do.

    Take a deep breath... breathe in s-l-o-w-l-y and breathe out. No need to use vulgar words, Mr. Cee. You've whined from day one in the forums. You've never sought out help but simply decided that you were not subject to the terms of service and used the forums to whine and complain.

    Now here's the thing (which you consistently fail to grasp). Are you ready for it? All of your complaints don't amount to a hill of beans as far as Opera is concerned. Over a year ago the decision was made to drop Presto. The team that developed it is essentially gone. There is NO turning back now and no matter how many threads are begun stating the disenchantment with the new browser or bemoaning the loss of features of the former, Opera Next is the new browser and the only browser that will be developed... period. If there are features you would like to see added back, be respectful (something that appears very difficult for you) and state them in the developers' blogs where they will have a better chance of being noticed. In the meantime, you can easily continue using a Presto version alongside the newer Blink version "if" you want to see how Opera Next is developing. If that is not satisfactory and does not meet your needs, then use another browser. In all of this, whining, complaining, swearing, threatening, bullying, labelling etc etc etc are both counter-productive and somewhat indicative of "other" problems (which I will mercifully leave unsaid).

    :bye:

  • Originally posted by StevenCee:

    you are so completely full of sh*t, attempting to judge whether I've made "proper use" of the forums. You sir an idiot of the first degree . . . . and if you don't like what others post, then simply STFU

    Uhhh . . . . on the other hand . . . :left:

  • Originally posted by fluxrev:

    Originally posted by StevenCee:

    you are so completely full of sh*t, attempting to judge whether I've made "proper use" of the forums. You sir an idiot of the first degree . . . . and if you don't like what others post, then simply STFU

    Uhhh . . . . on the other hand . . . :left:

    Indeed, fluxrev. I've been the recipient of some vicious (and rather vulgar) responses hence my "anger" comment (which in hindsight wasn't one of my more prudent decisions and one I now regret). I suppose the only real option is to place Mr.Cee on Ignore since it would appear that my comments provoke rather than educate. fluxrev, there's no question but that some of my responses have been out of line. I can explain them but sadly I cannot justify them and therein lies the rub for me. 😞

  • Originally posted by StevenCee:

    I'm waiting for the gang to blast Tetzchner for having complaints, criticizing the developers' & execs' decisions, etc.....
    He must be wrong, he doesn't know what he's talking about, airing his complaints simply isn't constructive, he's just a troll, and his comments shouldn't even be seen in this forum.....

    What gang? I haven't seen any gang here doing this. I only question what he says when it collides with other pieces of information we have. And of course if he thinks developing and investing in Presto performance and dealing with compatibility problems until the end of time plus maintaining all the other classic features is better than using a borrowed engine it's his opinion and I have the right to have a different one.

    Originally posted by StevenCee:

    Well, if the same talented developers that created what Opera once was are still there, PLUS, they now have even more people helping them out, then why is it taking them so very long to incorporate something as basic as Bookmarks

    I don't know, but it's not as basic / simple / easy as it seems. There are a lot of bug reports related to the bookmarks bar (QAB) marked as fixed in the changelogs so it required a lot of testing and development even though it looks like a simple feature they could "steal" from the Chromium code, well it only looks like it's a basic/simple feature perhaps.
    Also, I asked Daniel Aleksandersen on Twitter just yesterday "Ok this is getting really weird, why is @Opera resisting so much to add a bookmarks menu/button?", the reply: "Managment are unhappy with how trad. bookmarks work. Getting them just right have taken more time than anyone expected."

    Originally posted by StevenCee:

    specially knowing this is driving many long-time users away

    Your assumption.

    Originally posted by StevenCee:

    I can't imagine newbies checking it out, being willing to use a browser they can't use & manage bookmarks

    Again that's your assumption that newbies need a traditional bookmarks manager/menu/nicknames.

    Originally posted by missingno:

    The interesting thing is: of the approximately 330 million Opera users about 300 million still use Opera 12.

    Very interesting indeed.

    VERY interesting indeed.
    1. Jon has left the company completely but still has access to this kind of internal information?
    2. 330 million is the total number of users, there's no way 300 million people use Opera 12 as the total number of desktop users is 51 million and mobile consists mostly of Mini.

    Originally posted by leushino:

    The team that developed it is essentially gone.

    That's not 100% true, as pointed in quotes I shared in the beginning of this topic.

    I wish the fish slap doesn't hijack this thread. 😕

  • Originally posted by leushino:

    But I (unlike you) DON'T dislike reading your stuff or Mr. Cee's noise. Ergo: no need to use that function. :p

    It's not a matter of dislike (for me, anyway). Just suggesting that some restraint may be a better way to achieve your goals for this forum. But this is all I'll say about it.

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Again that's your assumption that newbies need a traditional bookmarks manager/menu/nicknames.

    Has it occurred to you that all major desktop browsers except Opera Blink have bookmarks, with managers and menus?

    Your assumption seems to be that lacking them somehow constitutes a unique selling point, if not an advantage.

    Notwithstanding the overwhelmingly negative user response here and in other forums.

  • Originally posted by Sawo:

    Has it occurred to you that all major desktop browsers except Opera Blink have bookmarks, with managers and menus?

    Has it occurred to you that this doesn't say how many people actually use them and how many wouldn't have any problems using Speed Dial folder(s) or Stash, oh and the bookmarks bar?

    Originally posted by Sawo:

    Your assumption seems to be that lacking them somehow constitutes a unique selling point, if not an advantage.

    Where did I say that?

  • Originally posted by leushino:

    Take a deep breath... breathe in s-l-o-w-l-y and breathe out. No need to use vulgar words, Mr. Cee. You've whined from day one in the forums. You've never sought out help but simply decided that you were not subject to the terms of service and used the forums to whine and complain. Now here's the thing (which you consistently fail to grasp). Are you ready for it? All of your complaints don't amount to a hill of beans as far as Opera is concerned. Over a year ago the decision was made to drop Presto. The team that developed it is essentially gone. There is NO turning back now and no matter how many threads are begun stating the disenchantment with the new browser or bemoaning the loss of features of the former, Opera Next is the new browser and the only browser that will be developed... period. If there are features you would like to see added back, be respectful (something that appears very difficult for you) and state them in the developers' blogs where they will have a better chance of being noticed. In the meantime, you can easily continue using a Presto version alongside the newer Blink version "if" you want to see how Opera Next is developing. If that is not satisfactory and does not meet your needs, then use another browser. In all of this, whining, complaining, swearing, threatening, bullying, labeling etc etc etc are both counter-productive and somewhat indicative of "other" problems (which I will mercifully leave unsaid).

    And you still don't get it, because instead of ever paying the slightest attention to what I've said, you have it already set in your tiny, tiny mind. I never once, ever, said a word about Blink or Pesto or preferring Opera 12, or anything you just rattled off.... but then that has never stopped you from your judgmental, wrong-headed, and inaccurate characterizations before, either.

    You believe you are so knowledgeable & and armchair psychologist as well, that you ignore in yourself, all the exact same behavior you deride in others, which a contemporary of Freud's calls out in this quite apropos depiction of you:
    "The best political, social and spiritual work we can do is to withdraw the projection of our shadow onto others.” . . . – Carl Jung

  • And yet "I" have the tiny, tiny mind. :whistle:

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    330 million is the total number of users, there's no way 300 million people use Opera 12 as the total number of desktop users is 51 million and mobile consists mostly of Mini.

    Uhm ...
    from German Wikipedia

    Laut Opera ist der Opera Mini der „weltweit beliebteste Browser mit über 30 Millionen Benutzern“.
    Opera Mobile wurden nach Angaben von Opera seit 2004 auf über 125 Millionen Geräten installiert.

    30 million Opera Mini users, 125 million Opera Mobile installations according to Opera. Only 51 million desktop users of Opera can't be correct.

  • Originally posted by missingno:

    30 million Opera Mini users, 125 million Opera Mobile installations according to Opera. Only 51 million desktop users of Opera can't be correct.

    Or maybe Wikipedia is incorrect or outdated?

    "In December 2013, there were over 270 million Opera mobile browsers users. Out of this number, 248 million were Opera Mini users and the rest were Opera for Android, Mobile Classic and Skyfire users globally." (Source.)

    About Opera desktop: they have 51 million users currently (flat with previous quarter) and "Major part of user base is now on the new product" (PDF of Q4 2013 presentation.)

    270+51 = 321 ~ but let's say 330 million users like Jon said.
    Let's take out all the Opera Mini users: 330-248 = 82.
    Jon's claim that 300 million users are on Opera 12 is completely false, it's impossible. (Or you can blame the tech journalist who wrote the interview, whatever.)

  • To be honest, neither numbers sum up to me. Why is a Skyfire user an Opera mobile browser user?

    Plus I barely know anyone using something else than the stock browser if he or she doesn't know about Opera desktop browser in the first place. While certainly not every Opera Mini user also uses Opera on desktop, I am quite positive there are Opera desktop users not using Opera Mini as well. My assumption would be, there is a more or less equal number of Opera users on mobile and desktop.

    Going from the number of the presentation, which is marked "unaudited" and a Opera market share of 2%, that would mean 2.5 billion people. If under these conditions the number of 330 million is true, that would mean a market share of 13.2%, which undoubtly it a bit too high to be real. 😉

    Just thinking.

  • Opera's latest official usage figures from http://www.operasoftware.com/press/facts

    Number of users using Opera
    Mobile users: More than 264 million.
    Desktop users: 52 million.
    Devices shipped: More than 25 million.
    Total users: More than 350 million.

    Numbers as of August 2013. Updated monthly.

    No updates since August, one month after Opera 15 was officially released?

    Makes you wonder why…

  • Originally posted by Sawo:

    Opera's latest official usage figures from http://www.operasoftware.com/press/facts

    Number of users using Opera
    Mobile users: More than 264 million.
    Desktop users: 52 million.
    Devices shipped: More than 25 million.
    Total users: More than 350 million.

    Numbers as of August 2013. Updated monthly.

    No updates since August, one month after Opera 15 was officially released?Makes you wonder why…

    The updated official numbers are in the financial quarterly reports, I posted the links in a post just above. The web designers must have forgotten about this page since the redesign of opera.com.

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    ]The updated official numbers are in the financial quarterly reports, I posted the links in a post just above. The web designers must have forgotten about this page since the redesign of opera.com.
    About Opera desktop: they have 51 million users currently (flat with previous quarter) and "Major part of user base is now on the new product"

    52 million in August, 51 million by December.

    "Major part of user base is now on the new product"

    Like many other users on these forums, I keep downloading, installing, and trying out every new release of Opera Blink - in the vain hope of seeing it develop into something worth using. So far, no joy. Opera 12.16 is better in every respect but site compatibility, for a handful of cases. And in unfortunate fact, every other Chrome Clone on the market is better than Opera Blink, too.

    For the company it seems every download and install is counted as "users being on the new product".

    Not so. I just haven't given up on Opera yet. But if the new browser remains so woefully uncompetitive, I may have to.

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