Long time opera user disgruntled

  • I have rarely popped on these forums in the many years I have used opera. I am here now completely frustrated. The reasons I used opera for years were integrated RSS and mail along with the early adoption of tabs/wand etc.

    When I updated opera one day to find mail and RSS gone I tried to stick it out and adapt. I went to gmail for my primary account. The other accounts I separate by types of spam I call them and tried to check them independently. That sucked, so I downloaded several desktop clients. Those sucked.

    And while I tried to adjust to the email I totally failed to adjust to the loss of RSS. Google decided to shutdown their RSS which had always been my secondary.

    Then bookmarks - what the hell? They are just ridiculous now. Bottom line - I am NOT a power user. I found opera so many years ago for the mail and rss integration as well as the small features it implemented that were ahead of the game. Today I can't find a reason to use it.

    I used to smile when I had website compatibility issues, search for a solution and move on. Why? Because I had a browser that did the things I wanted that no other browser did! With latest opera every compatibility issue leaves me looking for another browser - not a fix!

    I read through many threads here and see a bit of debate - opera defenders vs "whiners". I came as a long time opera fan, non-power user, who is simply frustrated so I guess I fall in the "whiner" camp?

    I am so glad I found a link here tonight to old opera builds. I am back on 12.16 with all my old settings/preferences/mail for first time since I updated. I was almost ecstatic - it feels home - it feels FUNCTIONAL. But I know it can't last with an evolving www.

    Are there any alternatives out there to a 11.x or 12.x generation opera that is being updated? That is what I am looking for.

  • Kerygma

    Are there any alternatives out there to a 11.x or 12.x generation opera that is being updated? That is what I am looking for.

    No. If you are looking for a equal alternative.

  • Originally posted by Kerygma:

    And while I tried to adjust to the email I totally failed to adjust to the loss of RSS. Google decided to shutdown their RSS which had always been my secondary.

    The Standalone Email Client supports RSS feeds. It's not hard to add feeds. Your existing feeds should be copied when you copy your mail profile.

    Bookmarks are fine. It is pretty much like the old Personal Bar (aka Bookmarks Bar). They also support drag and drop of bookmarks in folders, and alphabetical sort.

    We will have to wait for all the other missing features like tab-stacking, notes, customising, etc., and many may only come back via extensions. For now, I am still using Opera 11.64, and use "Open With" in Opera 19 or Firefox if I encounter a broken site.

    Give it a year (now at least another six months), and Opera Next might be viable.

  • Originally posted by Kerygma:

    ...Are there any alternatives out there to a 11.x or 12.x generation opera that is being updated? That is what I am looking for.

    If you haven't already visited these threads, there are two that might at least give you some ideas based on what others have been trying:
    Suggestions for those looking for alternatives to Opera 12 (and use Opera Mail)
    Helpful Extras to customize Opera 18/19 (Mostly 19)

  • Originally posted by Kerygma:

    Are there any alternatives out there to a 11.x or 12.x generation opera that is being updated? That is what I am looking for.

    The Otter browser project aims to recreate the classic Opera web browser

  • I just want to say a few things, as an avid Opera user since the 90s.
    This new direction taken since opera 15 is abysmal. I am in fact ashamed of having recommended this browser to so many people. What do I do now? I stick with an old and possibly outdated version of Opera so I can get the user interface that i crave. From Opera 15 and onwards you have manged to remove almost every single keyboard shortcut i used, and while I am sure some reprogramming og keys can be done, I should not have to even worry about that, on top of that Opera now keeps NAGGING me to upgrade to opera 19 - which is -never- happening.

    It is with great joy i go back to Opera 12. This here new stuff, well, there is nothing Vikig or Norwegian about it a poor repackaging of the Chrome browser. Even marking text for copy is a HORRIBLE mess that often marks half the page in the same go. Reading PDFs, while I find the PDF reader pretty, is a horrible undertaking, esp. if you want to copy parts of paragraphs to your own notes. Flipping thru tabs using your keyboard used to be simple and easy; like with many other things you moved the keys for this and made it very non-versatile. These are just the tip of the iceberg of my issues with the new opera. If i wanted Chrome I would go and get Chrome. I do not. I want the look and feel of the Old Opera (12 and before). Have any of you tried to move the Opera window on osx? it's quite the lottery game, more of than not you hit a tab instead of that complete lack of a border they have now. And what's with that new key store? Does it even work at all?

    So thank you Opera software for being singlehandedly responsible for putting tons of out of date browsers on the Internet with lord knows what kind of security bugs. So, until i find a worthy alternative to the old opera, and please save your breath - i'm not going with FF, IE or Chrome, none of these browsers rub me the right way, I will be surfing the web with an old, unpatched insecure version of Opera..thanks guys. The Opera we knew and loved is one of the few browsers that was ever worthy. This new crap is...well just crap.

    I am highly interested in browser alternatives a long the lines of Opera 12 and so forth, that are being kept up to date! Please hit me up with suggestions.

    Bravo, vi klapper virkelig for denne broleren. Utvikling betyr fremgang, evolusjon, dette er devolusjon. Patetisk.

    -- you know who

  • Originally posted by operanextsucks:

    I just want to say a few things, as an avid Opera user since the 90s.
    This new direction taken since opera 15 is abysmal. I am in fact ashamed of having recommended this browser to so many people. ...

    Why? You made your recommendations based on what you knew to be true at the time. The subsequent design choices made by a company are not your responsibility. Anyone who thinks otherwise of you is someone whose opinion you should be unconcerned about.

    The main thing is that folks need to get shed of all the emotional baggage over the Opera redesign... else they take personally something that is not a personal issue. Opera and other browsers were and are free. There are other browser choices. Life changes, browsers change... and we all have to learn to adapt in order to exist in the world as it is, rather than as it was.

    If you look at my posting two posts above yours, you'll find links to two discussions of some browser choices available to you. There is also a new browser (Otter) in the early stages of development by an individual that may (or may not) come to full life as an Opera-12 replica. That you will have to adapt somewhat with any path you take is a simple reality... Old Opera will be going obsolete or insecure, sooner or later. Personally, I'm currently using Firefox 26 and 8 extensions for what I primarily need, along with keeping Opera 12.14 as my secondary browser for now, and I'm closely watching Opera (and other browser) development to see what happens in months to come; your own mileage will vary.

  • Originally posted by Pesala:

    Bookmarks are fine. It is pretty much like the old Personal Bar (aka Bookmarks Bar). They also support drag and drop of bookmarks in folders, and alphabetical sort.

    Is the bookmark sync working yet?

  • You know, I would use firefox, but it simply cannot deal with me using it. I leave that browser alone for a few hours and, regardless of OS and computer, it becomes slow and unresponsive, to top that off, often times if i leave it over night i have to kill it off completely (many times, not always) to get content, especially plug-in content, to work. Opera 12 and before is the kind of browser that nicely handled my 40-something tabs and kept track of recently closed ones, didn't but me with things I didn't want, hardly ever locked up, albeit there was a few mysterious crashes sometimes, however upon restart opera got it right 9 outta 10 times.

    I have become accustomed to a certain way of using my computers, in large thanks to opera as it was, and it was glorious. Opera Next or Blink or W/E it is called is forcing me to change not only the way i use the browser, but be without many functions, learn a different key mapping (short cuts, and deal with tons that are not there) and well yeah it's not a practical browser for me to use anymore. It boils down to that. I was extremely embarrassed when I was over at my boss' house to clear out his computer from a suspected break-in. I installed Opera for ihm since his choice of Safari and IE were less than optimal. Much to my dismay Opera 15 had JUST dropped and there was no bookmarks, no nothing, a browser I couldn't even operate convincingly all of a sudden(nothing,almost nothing i was used to, worked). He since went back to his IE / Safari combo as his ~8000 bookmarks or (yeah yeah i realize that might have been fixed in later times, but this is just one of many, many, many things.).

    I checked out the Otter project, and it seems interesting, except that i run neither windows nor linux (but if i were to run any of those, it would be linux). I run OS X, but this might change very soon as Mavericks is the biggest load of crap since that fisher price OS win 8 came outta microsoft. Maybe we as a community could organize a drive for funds or something for Otter and similar projects to get them off the ground?

    I don't care what my rendering engine is called as long as it's compatible, and it gives me my preferred user interface. It *is* that simple.
    Why couldn't they simply replaced the rendering engine with Webkit or w/e instead of ruining the entire user experience? I mean that seems to me like a much smoother transition. Instead they d this complete 180 and become part of the problem instead of the solution. I think if Opera users wanted Chrome they would download Chrome without having to be "tricked" into it 🙂

    And, YES, it *is* personal. You give your browser an INCREDIBLE amount of trust and huge chunks of yourself! It is *highly* personal, and anyone who thinks anything else are kidding themselves. Really, you are.

    I will be following Otter, and maybe I will give it a whirl to try to build it on OS X as it *is* open source, despite knowing there be endless evenings of pain ahead. Open source is amazing!

    It has been a nice journey with opera till now, but I think the time has come to look for alternatives.

  • You have to be willing to adapt... to change. Life is all about this. You say you operate with 40 tabs and I say... nonsense. No one NEEDS 40 tabs open and I don't care WHAT the job is or the task is. There was a time back before tabs that we all got along perfectly well without them. You say that Firefox slows down your computer and I have to scratch my head wondering why? I can use FF, Chrome, Safari, Opera and IE 11 and NONE of them slow down my computer. You whine about Mavericks and Windows 8. I LOVE Windows 8...well, 8.1. Then again, I'm adaptable. I've learned to use it and it's great. And I'm 67 years old. Generally the older one becomes, the more difficult change is and we have a tendency to resist it. That's never been my attitude. I love to learn new things and new ways of doing things. The amazing thing to me is to see so many younger people who cannot (or will not) make changes and insist that everything must go his/her way. This browser thing has become a joke. It's a T-O-O-L and you learn how to use that tool and if it doesn't do exactly what you expect, then adapt... change you way of doing things. In truth it is YOU who are kidding yourself. Opera has made its decision and Blink is the new browser. Presto's days are numbered now so accept it or go find another browser. You "think" the time has come to look for alternatives? With you - YES... the time has come. Since you are incapable of adapting it's time for you to go and find something else. But my gut feeling is, you'll be unhappy regardless of what you find. You see, it's not so much the tool (i.e. browser) but the person using that tool and if he stubbornly digs in his heels and refuses to make changes, he's going to have a very rough ride ahead.

  • Originally posted by operanextsucks:

    ... And, YES, it *is* personal. You give your browser an INCREDIBLE amount of trust and huge chunks of yourself! It is *highly* personal, and anyone who thinks anything else are kidding themselves. Really, you are. ...

    I've walked that very path in this Opera redesign epic... and I agree that the long-term use of a browser becomes very personal. But that's the whole thing - it is personal, and that means if the browser itself changes for whatever reason(s), the person must change - either his methods, his browser, or both.

    For me, my short list of features I absolutely needed in order to efficiently accomplish work on a browser relied on 9 unique Old Opera ways of doing certain things. Some of those I posted about here during the past Spring and Summer, trying to explain the what and why. With time and the slow or non-emergence of those features in New Opera, it led me to take a long, hard look at my available options, since I didn't wish to wait until Old Opera truly went "belly up" to have to make desperate choices and New Opera was just not evolving adequately for my needs. Through seriously trying other browsers for 7 months, I discovered that there were actually only 5 unique, Opera-like features that I really had to have, and I fairly quickly developed acceptable work-arounds for the other 4. Those 5 key features, I was able to find natively embodied in Firefox 25 plus a small handful of extensions (sometimes needing 2 extensions to obtain a single feature working the way I wanted it to be). However, my point here is not to tout Firefox... it's to highlight the reality that I had to change some things in my way of working, as well as change my browser. And life has gone on. Nicely.

    The "ride" with Old Opera was great while it lasted, and frankly, I wish it could have gone on far longer. But it didn't... end of that story. Moreover, Opera didn't change their browser to spite any of us. They did it for their own reasons. Which, because it's their browser after all, they are free to do. I don't take it personally, and I have no reason to feel betrayed or upset. It did cost me some effort to make changes, but that's really the way all of life is, as @leushino has said. The browser was free, after all, and Opera was under no obligation to develop a new browser just the way I would have wanted. At this point, if New Opera can evolve to where it works like I need it to, then I would certainly consider re-adopting it. However, Opera will now have to out-do what I currently have with Firefox + extensions for that to happen... which, multiplied by the thousands of similar "me's" I suspect are out there, may (or may not) have negative marketshare impact for them in coming months. That's one of their possible consequences of the design decisions they've made.

  • Long-term My Opera users are disgruntled with disgruntled Opera users.

    There is really no point talking to someone who chooses a handle like operanextsucks. Fortunately, these My Opera forums will close in a few weeks. Of course, the new forums could suffer the same fate — we will have to wait and see if moderation and registration procedures are tightened up.

    Save your positive energies for more useful things than trying to placate or educate the whiners. Post on the Desktop Team Blogs or the Beta forums to try to influence the development of Opera Next.

  • Originally posted by leushino:

    There was a time back before tabs that we all got along perfectly well without them.

    And there was a time back before the internet that we all got along perfectly well without it.

  • Originally posted by missingno:

    Originally posted by leushino:

    There was a time back before tabs that we all got along perfectly well without them.

    And there was a time back before the internet that we all got along perfectly well without it.

    And, and there was a time back before speech that we all got along perfectly well without it.

  • By the way, I know what 'disgruntled' means. So... what does it mean to be 'gruntled', since it obviously is something that occurs if one has not become dis-gruntled? 😄 😉

  • Originally posted by blackbird71:

    By the way, I know what 'disgruntled' means. So... what does it mean to be 'gruntled', since it obviously is something that occurs if one has not become dis-gruntled? 😄 😉

    :lol: Indeed... some words with their prefixes just wouldn't make sense without them.

    When I started (late in life) in the fall of 97 with my first browser, it was Netscape 3.0 Gold. A year later I was on 4.5 and how I loved that browser. And frankly, I could get along reasonably well with that old browser today if in fact it would render today's pages and do so safely. Prior to that I was using a Canon word processor and a small floppy disc to do my essays for my classes. I think the screen allowed me to see a whole 10 lines at a time... magical in those days (for me at least). When I hear people say that it will be impossible for them to do their work without ALL the features that the old version of Opera allowed, I don't quite buy it. Granted, it would probably be more difficult and would definitely require some adjustments but you know... when you are forced to make adjustments... somehow you generally do and low and behold, you discover new ways of doing the same tasks and sometimes even better than before. I thought when I gave up the Netscape suite with its integrated email client that I would never get the hang of a second stand-alone program for mail. Ha. That adjustment must have taken me two or three WHOLE days. OMG... can you imagine? :yikes:

  • Originally posted by leushino:

    ...When I started (late in life) in the fall of 97 with my first browser, it was Netscape 3.0 Gold. A year later I was on 4.5 and how I loved that browser. ... I thought when I gave up the Netscape suite with its integrated email client that I would never get the hang of a second stand-alone program for mail. Ha. That adjustment must have taken me two or three WHOLE days. OMG... can you imagine? :yikes:

    So... you were gruntled with Netscape 4.5, then became disgruntled when you had to give it up, then eventually became regruntled with a successor solution. I think I'm starting to see the pattern... 😛 😄

  • LOL... What possessed me to take off the mask? A gruntled former Netscaper! 😛

  • Honestly, this handle was just the first word that came to mind when i looked up and saw "Opera", and many of you show exactly why I don't normally bother to register anywhere, the general theme here seems to be gearing towards personal attacks and whatnot, as far as life and change goes, this is not it. Really, the fact that you don't do many things over a long period of time and require many tabs, right now i counted, I have a low 20-something open as we speak(hey it is still early, at times i group them in windows), but the fact that *you* cannot conceive of anyone doing it just shows your limitations and they should not limit the rest of us. It it has been made quite clear to me that Opera has no wish of maintaining it's longterm user base and as such I am finding and alternative, along with others.

    I think I made a few points very clear in previous points, too bad shortsightedness seems to be the general trend. Really, makes me sad to change browsers completely, but the general attitude on this board seals the deal. Enjoy your repackaged Chrome browser, guys! Opera is dead. Ignorance is bliss. I guess google really did buy opera after all? who knows? 🙂

    Have a nice day, and keep warm in the cold! 🙂

  • I just want to add that I in no way think Opera did this to spite any of us, it does not suit me at all however. I think it was ill-planned and very shortsighted, as the majority of my issues I think could be fixed with minor code tweaks, many probably without even that much. That's all.

    Have a splendid day! 🙂

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